Why Choose Solar Energy for Your Home

Judged:

tina anne wrote:

<quoted text>
If it requires cooling it isn't room temperature superconductor but a high temperature superconductor. What you really need to do is read something other than press releases. After all no press releasse is going to do anything but make every product sound like the answer to every problem.
I know several who have solar panels and wind generators. Who do you think they call when it isn't working right and the local electricion cannot figure it out. When they need someone who knows how to use a o scope and has experience troubleshooting. Between my husband and myself there isn't much. Speaking of which he got back from cutting up the old tower and is putting up the new one next weekend.
Also if you want to talk about lies then why not talk about the lies involving solar and wind energy. After all they are still using the same hype they used back in the seventies.

If this stuff is as bad as you've 'heard' why is your husband going to install another tower next weekend? The 'electricion' as you have put it isn't licensed or he/she would know how to troubleshoot an electrical circuit A.C. or D.C. Is your husband going to install R51E protection around this new tower? If not the new tower will be just as dangerous as the old tower. You mentioned solar on their roof, he's not going to remove that 'waste of money' for them when he installs the new tower? You mean you and your husband haven't helped these people with a transfer switch and back up generator? This is standard even for off grid sites. Yeah, you and Glasnos, twin heads on the same snake.

Solarman

Judged:

Glasnos wrote:

<quoted text>
Wow! Typical liberal. Caught in a total lie and fabrication and you do a literary slight of hand. Room temperature superconductors DO NOT EXIST ... PERIOD! You claim they do ... LOL
Just how do you plan on commercially using superconductors that need to be cooled to over minus 400 degrees fahrenheit ... genius?
You must be a shill for American Superconductor ... making wild claims and outright lies.

No, I did not claim, THEY do, you claim that I have claimed, THEY do, see the difference? You must be Tina's man/boy Friday. If I'm a liberal, then you really need to get to the proctologist and help him find YOUR head.

just an allusion

Louisville, KY

It would be more so productive to the thread's continuity if everyone would refrain from attacking the posters and stick to addressing the subject matter instead as character assassinations are both counter-productive and counter-intuitive...Just saying.

Glasnos

Solarman wrote:

<quoted text> By the way, there are room temperature superconductors. Cost of cooling in a high power application tends to turn utilities away from implementation.

Ahem!... You have proven yourself to be a total liar and fraud ... Solarman ... You are a shill ... a lying pitchman

Superconductors do not come within miles of room temperature.
I doubt you even have the intellect to imagine the possibilites if they did exist.

Glasnos

just an allusion wrote:

It would be more so productive to the thread's continuity if everyone would refrain from attacking the posters and stick to addressing the subject matter instead as character assassinations are both counter-productive and counter-intuitive...Just saying.

That is diffivult when you are dealing with out and out lies and fraud.

Bottom line ... we are nowhere near close for solar to be truely viable. Who knows, with a few more breakthoughs ... maybe in ten years ... and then maybe not.
You can't dismiss what was done in Nellis AFB ... They installed the highest technology available ... and it is pathetically lacking as far as economically viable. It was sheer stupidity, and gross financial negligence, they even implemented it.

just an allusion

Louisville, KY

Judged:

Glasnos wrote:

Bottom line ... we are nowhere near close for solar to be truely viable. Who knows, with a few more breakthoughs ... maybe in ten years ... and then maybe not.
You can't dismiss what was done in Nellis AFB ... They installed the highest technology available ... and it is pathetically lacking as far as economically viable. It was sheer stupidity, and gross financial negligence, they even implemented it.

In order for you to validate your argument you will need to supply information on the monthly/annual electricity billing for the Nellis Air Force Base, compare it to the cost of the solar panel installation, and extrapolate how long it will take for the cells to pay for themselves, then divide that figure by the accrued annual savings in electrical costs for that period of time thanks to the panels...Can you do that?

Glasnos

just an allusion wrote:

<quoted text>
In order for you to validate your argument you will need to supply information on the monthly/annual electricity billing for the Nellis Air Force Base, compare it to the cost of the solar panel installation, and extrapolate how long it will take for the cells to pay for themselves, then divide that figure by the accrued annual savings in electrical costs for that period of time thanks to the panels...Can you do that?

ROFL ... You can't be serious!
The installation cost $100 million ... the savings are $1 million per year.
So even if the arrays last 100 years (ridiculous)... and there are no maintanence costs over the entire 100 years (again ridiculous) It is still a stupid investment. No one is going to invest $100 million at a 1% return.
Can you say ... stupid question?... yes ... I'm sure you can.

Solarman

Judged:

Glasnos wrote:

<quoted text>
ROFL ... You can't be serious!
The installation cost $100 million ... the savings are $1 million per year.
So even if the arrays last 100 years (ridiculous)... and there are no maintanence costs over the entire 100 years (again ridiculous) It is still a stupid investment. No one is going to invest $100 million at a 1% return.
Can you say ... stupid question?... yes ... I'm sure you can.

Where did you get the 100 million dollar price tag, bloviate? Some guy writes an article and throws out 100 million and YOU believe it. You ride this idea of 'room temperature superconductors' into the ground as if it is the greatest revelation. The fact that there is at least one company selling product to the power industry seems to escape you. Shill, you know nothing and you do nothing. Your blanket statement of solar not being economically feasible is a lie, work on that line of thought for a while. There are lots of alternative energy programs available for the residential sector as well as the business sector. Tax and rebate incentives to install energy efficient devices, geothermal heating and cooling, upgrades to the home like double or tripple pane windows, more insulation, energy star appliances. Then there is energy generation, solar PV, wind, micro-hydro, solar hot water. YOU want credibility? Try: www.dsireusa.org figure out your folly, sport.

Glasnos

Solarman wrote:

<quoted text>Where did you get the 100 million dollar price tag, bloviate? Some guy writes an article and throws out 100 million and YOU believe it. You ride this idea of 'room temperature superconductors' into the ground as if it is the greatest revelation. The fact that there is at least one company selling product to the power industry seems to escape you. Shill, you know nothing and you do nothing. Your blanket statement of solar not being economically feasible is a lie, work on that line of thought for a while. There are lots of alternative energy programs available for the residential sector as well as the business sector. Tax and rebate incentives to install energy efficient devices, geothermal heating and cooling, upgrades to the home like double or tripple pane windows, more insulation, energy star appliances. Then there is energy generation, solar PV, wind, micro-hydro, solar hot water. YOU want credibility? Try: www.dsireusa.org figure out your folly, sport.

You are an idiot.

Using a "first-of-its-kind" public/private partnership, this project (which cost over $100M to construct) cost the AF less than $100,000 in capital costs, yet saved Nellis over $1.2M in its first year of operation.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Ne...

And room temperature superconductors would completely revolutionize the world as we know it. You are too stupid to realize what that would mean. Unfortunately, we are eons away from such a miracle you so lightly toss about.-400 degrees Fahrenheit makes them commercially useless.

Go back to your sales job ... you know zero about science, or about truth and integrity

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

7,395

Norfolk va

ISP: Norfolk, VA

Solarman wrote:

<quoted text>What are you and Tina idiot twins from different mothers? I did not say they were room temperature for power usage, read the post again!!! Hopefully you comprehend a little better than Tina. It seems the HTS is actually useful as spike supression on protection circuits. As for Tina's grand response, an article from 2008, dated at best. She needs to look at the articles from 2009. While your rolling on the floor spray a little endust and clean the place up. As for credibility, your background is in what, Masters in B.S.?

You need to go back and redo your research. Look at how much power your HTS use to keep them that cool. At which point in many cases it would be more economical to use normal copper wire to move the power.

Of course you have also gotton off the subject of solar.

Solarman

Judged:

Glasnos wrote:

<quoted text>
You are an idiot.
Using a "first-of-its-kind" public/private partnership, this project (which cost over $100M to construct) cost the AF less than $100,000 in capital costs, yet saved Nellis over $1.2M in its first year of operation.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Ne...
And room temperature superconductors would completely revolutionize the world as we know it. You are too stupid to realize what that would mean. Unfortunately, we are eons away from such a miracle you so lightly toss about.-400 degrees Fahrenheit makes them commercially useless.
Go back to your sales job ... you know zero about science, or about truth and integrity

From the link YOU provided:" Using a "first-of-its-kind" public/private partnership, this project (which cost over $100M to construct) cost the AF less than $100,000 in capital costs, yet saved Nellis over $1.2M in its first year of operation." Notice,"cost the AF 'less' than 100,000 in capital costs. The 100M cost you so lightly toss around as the AF cost seems a little suspect. Like any other power generation plant, the construction costs will be shared by all utility users. What's the difference from this or a 100M coal fired plant? As for superconductors, there are apparently some very valid and commercial uses for superconductors, even with the cost of cooling factored in. New York has two projects and I believe a couple of years ago Philidelphia had a short haul link installed with superconductor technology. As for ME, I am not or have I ever been a salesman for solar. I found a reputable electrical firm with years of solar experience and had them install my system. I simply state from experience that solar PV CAN work quite well for the homeowner. Of course with YOUR integrity and truthfulness you see all and know all. You can't even quote your own source of information correctly. I dare you, go back and READ it.

Solarman

tina anne wrote:

<quoted text>
You need to go back and redo your research. Look at how much power your HTS use to keep them that cool. At which point in many cases it would be more economical to use normal copper wire to move the power.
Of course you have also gotton off the subject of solar.

YOUR not off the subject? Please, stop the deflection and excuses. Tina, what have YOU DONE, not what have you heard, what someone else told you they did. What was being sold thirty years ago. What have YOU, DONE that supports any of your claims about solar PV, solar Hot water. It is true in every facet of the manufacturing society, if you have a poorly engineered, poorly installed system of course you will be unhappy with it. Look at the YUGO, that was a death trap on four wheels. I have not seen one of these 'cars' on the road in years. Over those thirty years you keep referring to, there have been several major improvements to the sealing and mounting of the solar product that increases yield and reliability of the PV product. You talk about fair weather power production. CIGS technology although about 10% efficient harvests more power on cloudy days than the same crystal silicon based solar cell with around 15 to 20% efficiency. The companies that are now printing solar cells using this technology will be able to incorporate solar PV technology into roofing tiles, shingles, awnings, house siding, windows, laminate to put on existing block walls, perhaps even wall paper in well sunlit rooms. Example: A 10KW peak solar installation 10 years ago would have cost 100K. Five years ago the same system was 70K. Now it is 50K and with all the tax credits and incentives, your looking at 25 to 35K. You've gone from the price of a house, to the price of a car. With mass production it will be possible to put solar PV on one's home for the cost of a riding lawn mower.

Glasnos

Solarman wrote:

<quoted text>From the link YOU provided:" Using a "first-of-its-kind" public/private partnership, this project (which cost over $100M to construct) cost the AF less than $100,000 in capital costs, yet saved Nellis over $1.2M in its first year of operation." Notice,"cost the AF 'less' than 100,000 in capital costs. The 100M cost you so lightly toss around as the AF cost seems a little suspect. Like any other power generation plant, the construction costs will be shared by all utility users. What's the difference from this or a 100M coal fired plant? As for superconductors, there are apparently some very valid and commercial uses for superconductors, even with the cost of cooling factored in. New York has two projects and I believe a couple of years ago Philidelphia had a short haul link installed with superconductor technology. As for ME, I am not or have I ever been a salesman for solar. I found a reputable electrical firm with years of solar experience and had them install my system. I simply state from experience that solar PV CAN work quite well for the homeowner. Of course with YOUR integrity and truthfulness you see all and know all. You can't even quote your own source of information correctly. I dare you, go back and READ it.

You really are running for idiot of the year ... aren't you?
The cost of the arrays are still $100 million. Who do you think is paying that?.... Any ideas?.... keep thinking ....
maybe the tooth fairy?...
The american taxpayer!... and who pays for Nellis AFB?.... Got any ideas?... The american taxpayer!.... Taking money from your back pocket instead of your front pocket will not save you anything. This is the same sort of garbage we continually get from Obama and the government. Moving money from one pocket to the other, and declaring savings! You actually believe you can get free quarters out of your ears when government does its slight of hand.
Damn, you just love to prove to everyone how ignorant you are.
Come on ... you are really 12 ... aren't you?

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

7,395

Norfolk va

ISP: Norfolk, VA

Solarman wrote:

<quoted text>YOUR not off the subject? Please, stop the deflection and excuses. Tina, what have YOU DONE, not what have you heard, what someone else told you they did. What was being sold thirty years ago. What have YOU, DONE that supports any of your claims about solar PV, solar Hot water. It is true in every facet of the manufacturing society, if you have a poorly engineered, poorly installed system of course you will be unhappy with it. Look at the YUGO, that was a death trap on four wheels. I have not seen one of these 'cars' on the road in years. Over those thirty years you keep referring to, there have been several major improvements to the sealing and mounting of the solar product that increases yield and reliability of the PV product. You talk about fair weather power production. CIGS technology although about 10% efficient harvests more power on cloudy days than the same crystal silicon based solar cell with around 15 to 20% efficiency. The companies that are now printing solar cells using this technology will be able to incorporate solar PV technology into roofing tiles, shingles, awnings, house siding, windows, laminate to put on existing block walls, perhaps even wall paper in well sunlit rooms. Example: A 10KW peak solar installation 10 years ago would have cost 100K. Five years ago the same system was 70K. Now it is 50K and with all the tax credits and incentives, your looking at 25 to 35K. You've gone from the price of a house, to the price of a car. With mass production it will be possible to put solar PV on one's home for the cost of a riding lawn mower.

What major improvement is PV solar power. I have yet to see anything other than some minor improvements and alot of talk of what they want to do in the future. Also you talk about what it is with all the tax breaks and incentives. What is it without those tax breaks and incentives since they are after you have brought and installed a solar system.

As for why I compare todays solar with that of thirty years ago is the fact that nothing has really changed with solar. It only produces usable power when it is sunny. Have anything more than a light overcast and your out of luck. Anything heavy like a tree lands on your panels and your out all that money as well.

In otherwords the solar panel is nothing more than a lemon just like the Yugo. At least the Yugo gave something useful back.

Solarman

tina anne wrote:

<quoted text>
What major improvement is PV solar power. I have yet to see anything other than some minor improvements and alot of talk of what they want to do in the future. Also you talk about what it is with all the tax breaks and incentives. What is it without those tax breaks and incentives since they are after you have brought and installed a solar system.
As for why I compare todays solar with that of thirty years ago is the fact that nothing has really changed with solar. It only produces usable power when it is sunny. Have anything more than a light overcast and your out of luck. Anything heavy like a tree lands on your panels and your out all that money as well.
In otherwords the solar panel is nothing more than a lemon just like the Yugo. At least the Yugo gave something useful back.

The incentives is YOUR tax money, so you want the Government to keep it while you pay higher electricity rates? The so called 'minor' improvements over the years has been the big change. There have been panels built in the 70's that are still in use today, making power, today. The assembly process has been improved, so now labor intensive layout and soldering of cells is done on automated lines at rates people can't acheive. This has brought down the price of the final panel. The sealing process for panels has increased, so panels built today with technology that's been around since the 1950's will be sealed from the elements and provide power out put longer than those panels of the past. Even the technology of crystal silicon cells has improved by using semi-conductor manufacturing technology. As for a tree falling on your roof or that once in twenty years really big hail storm, do you have your home insured? Just like any addition to one's home, a new room addition, remodel, ect. You at least should increase your insurance coverage for the addition. The solar installation I have is fairly large, about 8.4KW peak, costs another 100 dollars a year to insure, it would be about the same if it was a remodel or room addition.

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

7,395

Norfolk va

ISP: United States

Solarman wrote:

<quoted text>The incentives is YOUR tax money, so you want the Government to keep it while you pay higher electricity rates? The so called 'minor' improvements over the years has been the big change. There have been panels built in the 70's that are still in use today, making power, today. The assembly process has been improved, so now labor intensive layout and soldering of cells is done on automated lines at rates people can't acheive. This has brought down the price of the final panel. The sealing process for panels has increased, so panels built today with technology that's been around since the 1950's will be sealed from the elements and provide power out put longer than those panels of the past. Even the technology of crystal silicon cells has improved by using semi-conductor manufacturing technology. As for a tree falling on your roof or that once in twenty years really big hail storm, do you have your home insured? Just like any addition to one's home, a new room addition, remodel, ect. You at least should increase your insurance coverage for the addition. The solar installation I have is fairly large, about 8.4KW peak, costs another 100 dollars a year to insure, it would be about the same if it was a remodel or room addition.

What I want is for my goverment to qut wasting the tax money and use it for something practical like paying down the national debt to free up investment money to get the economy going again.

The fact that they now have assembly lines to make them isn't a surprise. They have assembly lines to make them isn't a surprise. They have them to make ipods and doing soldering machines to solder those microscopic connections they should be able to do something as simple as your panels which have not change since the fifties. It is amazing how much cars and everything else has changed and yet your panels have not.

Even having your home insured dosn't mean that those panels would be covered. Also as I found out talking to one of those proud owners it raised the tax rate on her house and the family tax bill was killing them. They are rebuilding without the solar panels since the moeny they made from selling power back went to pay the taxes.

Also I saw signs that the solar panel markey is following the the previous track and starting to fall off.

Solarman

tina anne wrote:

<quoted text>
What I want is for my goverment to qut wasting the tax money and use it for something practical like paying down the national debt to free up investment money to get the economy going again.
The fact that they now have assembly lines to make them isn't a surprise. They have assembly lines to make them isn't a surprise. They have them to make ipods and doing soldering machines to solder those microscopic connections they should be able to do something as simple as your panels which have not change since the fifties. It is amazing how much cars and everything else has changed and yet your panels have not.
Even having your home insured dosn't mean that those panels would be covered. Also as I found out talking to one of those proud owners it raised the tax rate on her house and the family tax bill was killing them. They are rebuilding without the solar panels since the moeny they made from selling power back went to pay the taxes.
Also I saw signs that the solar panel markey is following the the previous track and starting to fall off.

Tina, what's the matter with you? All markets wane and surge, even the oil industry has good and bad years. Cars have not changed considerably over the years. Manufacturing and technology have made a simple combustion chamber device more efficient. This didn't happen overnight, it's been over 100 years. In the 1920's Pierce Arrow had head lights that steered with the driver, there was even early air conditioning. Cheap manufacturing and technology made these things possible for all automobiles instead of just a few premium brands. It's the same for solar, manufacturing and technology will bring the price down so it will be a choice when re-roofing the house, installing siding, windows and maybe even wall paper all generating energy. So,what's your problem with this concept? As for insurance, I called my agent, told them I have installed solar PV on my roof and gave them the system cost. They quoted me 100 dollars a year extra on my homeowner insurance policy. I don't know about the tax bill, but if they had put in say a new room addition to their house, would not this have raised their taxes? So what's YOUR point. They didn't impose their due diligence and made a bad decision? Most States now give tax incentives to alternative energy installations. If you put in Solar PV, solar hot water or wind generation there is NO increase in the tax rate due to the installation, unlike spending the money on additions or upgrades to the home. So, either 'they' are lieing to you or your using 'they' to try and lie to me, which is it? What State of the union is this supposed to be in? Look it up: www.dsireusa.org

“dening those who deny nature. ”

Since: Jun 07

7,395

Norfolk va

ISP: Norfolk, VA

Solarman wrote:

<quoted text>Tina, what's the matter with you? All markets wane and surge, even the oil industry has good and bad years. Cars have not changed considerably over the years. Manufacturing and technology have made a simple combustion chamber device more efficient. This didn't happen overnight, it's been over 100 years. In the 1920's Pierce Arrow had head lights that steered with the driver, there was even early air conditioning. Cheap manufacturing and technology made these things possible for all automobiles instead of just a few premium brands. It's the same for solar, manufacturing and technology will bring the price down so it will be a choice when re-roofing the house, installing siding, windows and maybe even wall paper all generating energy. So,what's your problem with this concept? As for insurance, I called my agent, told them I have installed solar PV on my roof and gave them the system cost. They quoted me 100 dollars a year extra on my homeowner insurance policy. I don't know about the tax bill, but if they had put in say a new room addition to their house, would not this have raised their taxes? So what's YOUR point. They didn't impose their due diligence and made a bad decision? Most States now give tax incentives to alternative energy installations. If you put in Solar PV, solar hot water or wind generation there is NO increase in the tax rate due to the installation, unlike spending the money on additions or upgrades to the home. So, either 'they' are lieing to you or your using 'they' to try and lie to me, which is it? What State of the union is this supposed to be in? Look it up: www.dsireusa.org

Cars haven't changed. Take a look at a 1980 Honda compared to todays model. Now cars have features that have more computing power than anything but mainframes had back in 1980. Computers have changed as well. From the Commodore 64 in 1980 with a massive 64K to Dell's with gigabyyes of ram.

On the other hand solar panels are still the same as they were in 1980. Yes I have heard that they have all these wonderful hopes and they rank right in thier with everyone jetting around in flying cars and jet propelled belts.

Even with all the incentives the majority are not interested in solar and with good reason. ALl the sunny predictions cannot overcome the draw backs.

Solarman

tina anne wrote:

<quoted text>
Cars haven't changed. Take a look at a 1980 Honda compared to todays model. Now cars have features that have more computing power than anything but mainframes had back in 1980. Computers have changed as well. From the Commodore 64 in 1980 with a massive 64K to Dell's with gigabyyes of ram.
On the other hand solar panels are still the same as they were in 1980. Yes I have heard that they have all these wonderful hopes and they rank right in thier with everyone jetting around in flying cars and jet propelled belts.
Even with all the incentives the majority are not interested in solar and with good reason. ALl the sunny predictions cannot overcome the draw backs.

Drawbacks? You have 'heard'? You cannot effectively speak of drawbacks when YOU have done nothing but 'heard', you have to DO to really know. As a matter of FACT Tina, you haven't answered my question. What have you DONE Tina, what have you done? What is more elegant than something you aim towards the sun and with no moving parts, a lifespan very probably longer than the average human, makes power every day, even cloudy ones.