Excessive Force??? B&D Security and y...

Excessive Force??? B&D Security and your safety at St.Louis concerts

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Concert Goer

Florissant, MO

#1 May 3, 2009
So I attended a heavy metal concert at The Pageant last evening, Lamb of God & several other bands.
Let me begin by saying that I understand that the security staff has their hands full at a concert of this type and they need to keep some level of "control", it's heavy metal and there's a lot of moshing going on.
For those not acquainted with mosh pits (generally accepted as the area on the floor directly in front of the stage) you have to understand that, as a rule, no one is trying to actually injure anyone in there. Yes, Grandma may observe it to be raw, unchecked violence and think that a riot may have just broke out. Anyone who has been in one and understands "the pit" knows this is not so, it’s just the way some choose to express themselves and no one is being forced to go in there.
Another "rule" is that if you want to mosh, you are supposed to do it in the "the pit" and not all over the entire building, not all of are as young as we used to be and moshing just isn't everybody's thing. This is why it’s supposed to stay in the pit, to prevent anyone who doesn’t want to mosh from getting slammed into unexpectedly. We’re metal heads, not sadists.
So, last night was another heavy metal fans dream come true, some of the best bands in the industry at one of the coolest venues in St.Lou, with arguably the best fans in the world, people were fired up and ready to go!
I don't think anyone would say that at any time things were out of control, yes several times a handful of guys started moshing around the bar area and I'll be the first one to agree that it was wrong, take it to the pit!
Enter B&D security's goon squads! These guys come running in, violently shoving and slamming anyone and everyone in their path to get to the alleged "troublemakers" and proceed to lose any professionalism or restraint whatsoever. I witnessed one security person grab a young man (16 or 17 years old), by his throat, slam him backwards, bouncing the back of the kid's head off the concrete floor and continue choking him once he had him down. The security guard then proceeded to put him in a headlock chokehold and drag the poor kid backwards by his neck to who knows where. The kid, who by the way was half the guards size, was turning blue as he was dragged away and couldn't even speak. The sad part is the young man wasn't even doing anything wrong; he was just unlucky enough to be the first one for security to deal out their punishment on. I managed to get the guards attention when he returned to try and explain that they cannot use choke holds, and that it is in fact illegal, and you could seriously injure or kill some one by doing so. The guards reply to me was " to shut the f**k up or I would be next". The guy had the look of a madman, eyes blazing red and obviously in a rage. Anyone who had the misfortune of making him mad was going to get beat, choked and drug out, plain and simple.
Concert Goer

Florissant, MO

#2 May 3, 2009
Over the course of the next few hours I witnessed this same scenario again three more times, two more from the same guard and again from another, hands around a persons throat being choked out, rear chokeholds being applied as they slam people to the concrete and violently drag them away! Is this B&D security's policy? Do they train their staff to use deadly martial art techniques’? Is it worth seriously injuring or killing a person that posed no real threat to anyone at all?
What about the people who weren't even aware of a "problem" being unexpectedly slammed and shoved by enraged, psychopath security running through the crowd.
It seemed to me, the people I attended the concert with, and many others that I spoke to outside the Pageant that the only people creating havoc and problems during the show were B&D's maniac personnel.
This was not the first concert where I've witnessed this, in fact every concert I have ever attended where B&D was contracted I've seen them acting overly aggressive and using excessive force to restrain what are usually just young kids.
I spoke to the friends of one of these victims, gave them my number and advised them to encourage their friend to press charges and litigate the matter. I told them I would be more than willing to testify as a witness to the illegal assault and battery of their friend.
At the end of the concert I spoke to B&D security's supervisor, told him what I had witnessed, asked for the guards name and informed him that I would be registering complaints with the proper authorities. They would not discuss any of their restraint policies, especially those related to choke holds. The security guard who I first witnessed choking the first young man, walked up as we were speaking. I took his picture and again asked for his name only to have him get almost nose to nose with me and then threaten me with bodily harm again! Let’s just say he was close enough to me to realize he really could have used a breath mint.
It's time that B&D security be held accountable for their employees actions and either replace the maniacs they have employed or maybe St.Louis concert venues need to use a new security company or hire their own people. I’m sure a heavy law suit or prosecution would be a good start.
That being said, the Pageant has many of their own security, I have never seen one of them act unprofessional or violent in any way. Also let me say that not every person that works for B&D is a violent psychopath, after attending many concerts some have proved to be quite friendly and competent, but there's more than just one or two bad apples at B&D, and it's only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or possibly killed.
As for myself, I'm not sure if I'll ever attend another venue that B&D is working. It's pretty sad when the people who are supposed to providing you with security are the one's making you feel the most insecure.
AdmChesterMynutz

Saint Charles, MO

#3 May 4, 2009
I've been attending shows in St. Louis for twenty-five years. I've witnessed B&D Security assaulting people at shows more times than I can possibly imagine. How they haven't been sued or brought on criminal charges for the needless assault of concert goers is beyond me. B&D Security is staffed by cowardly muscle bound criminals. I have not attended a Riverport event for at least ten years because of the unprofessional and thuggish behavior of B&D Security.
concert goer

Saint Louis, MO

#4 May 5, 2009
ya, i was one of those dudes that was strangled. yes, i may have been moshing where i wasnt supposed to, but for christ sake, it was a heavy metal show. pardon my adrenaline. something does need to happen to b&d. if not b&d as a whole then just that psychopath CURTIS. I dont care ill say his name...the guy that was choking people out (myself included) is named CURTIS. strangling can cause serious throat & neck injury. its now tuesday, and my neck finally feels better.
Also a Concert goer

Saint Louis, MO

#5 May 5, 2009
I was not at the Lamb of God Show the other night, but I am familiar with these B&D thugs.

I think an easy solution may be to call the Pageant and ask questions about a show, and simply ask if B&D is working security at the concert. If they say "yes" than explain to them that you will not attend a show there if B&D is working it. If they say they "don't know" that is even better: Ask to leave your name and number and ask them to have someone call you when they have an answer. Keep calling for the info. If someone does call you back,there is a possibility that it will be someone that is important enough to give a shit about their customers.

I for one, am going to use this policy.

“Less Anger, More Solutions”

Since: Mar 08

outskirts of Cardinal Nation

#6 May 6, 2009
concert goer wrote:
ya, i was one of those dudes that was strangled. yes, i may have been moshing where i wasnt supposed to, but for christ sake, it was a heavy metal show. pardon my adrenaline. something does need to happen to b&d. if not b&d as a whole then just that psychopath CURTIS. I dont care ill say his name...the guy that was choking people out (myself included) is named CURTIS. strangling can cause serious throat & neck injury. its now tuesday, and my neck finally feels better.
Why haven't you pressed charges?

BTW: If you or anyone you know has photos or video of any of this reportedly criminalistic behavior against minors (or adults, for that matter), please advise.

Also, do you know became of the child that was reportedly brutally attacked by B & D personnel?
Concert Goer

Florissant, MO

#7 May 6, 2009
concert goer wrote:
ya, i was one of those dudes that was strangled. yes, i may have been moshing where i wasnt supposed to, but for christ sake, it was a heavy metal show. pardon my adrenaline. something does need to happen to b&d. if not b&d as a whole then just that psychopath CURTIS. I dont care ill say his name...the guy that was choking people out (myself included) is named CURTIS. strangling can cause serious throat & neck injury. its now tuesday, and my neck finally feels better.
If you're the guy that was slammed backwards onto the concrete by the older black guard(they wouldn't give me his name), I gave your friends my number. My buddy and me would be more than willing to testify on your behalf.
Concert Goer

Florissant, MO

#8 May 6, 2009
Concert Goer wrote:
<quoted text>
If you're the guy that was slammed backwards onto the concrete by the older black guard(they wouldn't give me his name), I gave your friends my number. My buddy and me would be more than willing to testify on your behalf.
I also spoke to a Riverfront Times reporter, Nick Phillips, who may like to hear from anyone involved in this.

At this point my biggest concern, now that I've gone on the record with B&D and the Pageant, is retribution from "Curtis" or other B&D staff.
Concert Goer

Florissant, MO

#9 May 6, 2009
chetthejet wrote:
<quoted text>
Why haven't you pressed charges?
BTW: If you or anyone you know has photos or video of any of this reportedly criminalistic behavior against minors (or adults, for that matter), please advise.
Also, do you know became of the child that was reportedly brutally attacked by B & D personnel?
I should also state that I no longer believe the assaulted person in question was a minor. Although he appeared to be very young, it has been pointed out to me that the area we were located in was 21 and over ONLY.
Regardless, this was "lethal force", minor or no minor.

I would also like to say that both The Pageant and B&D security's response to me has been more than forthcoming and both parties sounded to be very concerned about all of this and serious about collecting all of the facts possible.
AdmChesterMynutz

Saint Charles, MO

#10 May 7, 2009
Glad they replied, but I wouldn't expect much from either the Pageant or B&D. The incident described here is another example of the re-occurring violence perpetrated by B&D. For the past twenty-five years, B&D has been unnecessarily assaulting concert goers on a regular basis. I was personally dragged out of Riverport by B&D fifteen years ago for cheering. I was in the middle of the tenth row at Ozzie/Filter event. B&D decided to place their thugs within the rows meaning that the B&D thug was standing between me and the row of seats in front of me with his back to the stage. This was the case in every section I kid you not, I paid for a show in which the mug of a B&D thug was less than a foot away from me for the entire show. In the tenth row. I kept asking to see the a-hole's ticket because he was standing in my seat. Half-way through the show I was being physically dragged by three thugs to the exit and thrown out of the concert. They just grabbed me from behind and threw me out. Maryland Heights police watched me being assaulted. Did nothing. And wouldn't even listen to me as I described the assault.

I attended a show at Mississippi Nights in the band James stopped playing as a result of the way B&D were assaulting the audience. They said they wouldn't play again until B&D "stopped beating on our friends".

I fully support your efforts to reform the situation, but this is standard operating procedure for B&D, always has been and not venue owner or promoter seems to be too concerned about it. The way they figure, once they have your money, they really don't give a shit whether you enjoy the show.
LOGfan

United States

#11 May 7, 2009
Sorry to disagree but I was at the concert and witnessed the said incedent from the minor area.the guy that got dragged out was yelling at the staff while being dragged out(you dont make much noise when being choked)and had been warned about his behavior.the security personel I encountered were very nice.
Gimme a break

Granite City, IL

#12 Jun 1, 2009
What a bunch of cry babies. If security didn't stop the ignorant behavior immediately, it would quickly get completely out of hand. I've seen it happen and I'm sure many other concert goers have too. I've attended many concerts and as a female, I'm happy to have someone in control. I know that people are warned before they are kicked out. I also know that numerous security guards have ended up in the emergency room because drunken idiots think that since they paid for a ticket they can do anything they want. Well I paid for my ticket, too, and I don't want to get in the middle of a mosh pit at the bar.
DRIFTER

Festus, MO

#13 Aug 20, 2009
I have been to alot of concerts and I have been in security for 10 plus years.
1st off if this kid( I call him a kid because he is rebel enough to mosh where you aint suppose to be.)could take it upon himself to VIOLATE rules. He may have needed thumped. You cannot go somewhere disrespect rules of The Place of business your in and then cry cause someone detained you.
Grow some nads,get in the pit and quit dis-obeying rules and you wont have to be dealt with. Working Security is one thing,,, but putting the wrong person in a uniform and them taking it to another level and being too forceful is another. Sometimes when u have a group of knuckleheads not listening to authority we set examples to others.
Let me guess, you quit moshing in the no mosh zone after someone got thumped,right? Lesson learned...

P.S. I'm thinking about working for B&D Security and if you diss me, I will bodily pick u up and politely Kick yo a$$ out the door.

“Less Anger, More Solutions”

Since: Mar 08

outskirts of Cardinal Nation

#14 Aug 21, 2009
DRIFTER wrote:
I have been to alot of concerts and I have been in security for 10 plus years.
1st off if this kid( I call him a kid because he is rebel enough to mosh where you aint suppose to be.)could take it upon himself to VIOLATE rules. He may have needed thumped. You cannot go somewhere disrespect rules of The Place of business your in and then cry cause someone detained you.
Grow some nads,get in the pit and quit dis-obeying rules and you wont have to be dealt with. Working Security is one thing,,, but putting the wrong person in a uniform and them taking it to another level and being too forceful is another. Sometimes when u have a group of knuckleheads not listening to authority we set examples to others.
Let me guess, you quit moshing in the no mosh zone after someone got thumped,right? Lesson learned...
P.S. I'm thinking about working for B&D Security and if you diss me, I will bodily pick u up and politely Kick yo a$$ out the door.
Whoa, that sounded courageous.

Wait, please don't join B&D, Mr. Scary. No one will sleep nights knowing you're out there threatening.
fkthem

Chesterfield, MO

#17 Oct 11, 2009
b + d beat + destroy nuff said
former employe

Saint Louis, MO

#18 Nov 3, 2009
You are correct in that B&D uses and instructs it's employees to use illegal and harmful tactics. They further more also under pay thier employees (less than minimum wage) they also fail to pay for all hours worked. B&D provides security of drug infested concerts in Sullivan (Swag) where employees take drugs from people then use them themselves and even by them to take back home Bob and Debbie need to be prosecuted and/or sued..........
proud employee

Cape Girardeau, MO

#19 Dec 20, 2009
it doesnt surprise that i would come across this blog on the internet. the funny thing is, all of you that are on this site, are the goons we (B&D) have to deal with at every concert. your all ignorant and need to shut up. and for the former B&D employee, there is a reason you dont work for us anymore. and if anyone knows Bob or Debbie, they are good people. ya they may do things I and other employees dont agree with but you try running a security business. there is a reason the pageant keeps us around. and that reason is because we keep you goofy moshers in line. so all you wine babies come to another rock concert and say some of this crap to our face and watch what happens. sincerly, B&D :)
tell_it_like_it_ REALLY_is

Scottsdale, AZ

#20 Jan 4, 2010
"there is a reason the pageant keeps us around."
the same reason raves hire you, you bribe the cops to look the other way while people are doing drugs etc inside shows.
you keep the legal goons out, and in exchange get to be all the goons you never got to be in high-school.
way to go you.
b and d security officer

Saint Louis, MO

#22 Jan 25, 2010
i want to say i work for [email protected] right now and it kicks ass all you fucking cry babies need to shut the hell up because half of you guys dont have job and jelous of us are you still live at home with mommy and daddie if you jerks listen you wont get kicked out and if a problem dont concern you then stay the hell out off it cause you wont win this battle
thank you
bandd beater

United States

#23 Jan 25, 2010
I'd love to get my hands on an ahole like that...one of these days they are gonna fck with the wrong person and get a little of what they get...just a little if they are lucky...anyone that wants to try sht like that on me, will be lucky to leave with his life

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