Slogging through the economic mud

Slogging through the economic mud

There are 10 comments on the Brattleboro Reformer story from Dec 28, 2010, titled Slogging through the economic mud. In it, Brattleboro Reformer reports that:

While it is true that Vermont, like the rest of the nation, was hit hard by the economic downturn, it's also true that prior to the recession the economy of the Green Mountain State had been struggling.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Brattleboro Reformer.

taxman

Dover, NH

#1 Dec 28, 2010
Reich was saying the same thing before the tax cuts went into place. Is the Reformer really saying that the Bush tax cuts and the war cost Vermont jobs?

Could it be that the perpetual negative attitude about business in Vermont has cost us jobs. Or could it be that the rising taxes on the local level has made us less competitive for jobs. Why don't you do a comparison with NH and see if they have lost jobs over the same time period like we have. And oh, while you are at it why don't you compare tax rates in NH.

And as for the "rich" who should be paying more taxes...Vermont is losing those as well. We suffer from a lack of rich people not an abundance of tax avoiding rich people. Seems that the rich understand that living in Vermont is financially not advantageous. Let's raise their taxes some more and see if that will attract them.

Vermont is one of the highest taxed states per capita while our income is merely average. Since taxes directly affect disposable income and since we have a median income that ranks 25th or so and a tax burden that ranks in the top 5 or so the impact of our high taxes is even more negative than in other high tax states like Ct. Maine recognized this and lowered the tax rate in 2009. They even lowered it on the families making $250k a year.

I think you turn to Reich to confirm what you want to say in your liberal rant. If you were really serious about this discussion you would present a balanced argument instead of just cherry picking your uber liberal economist to back up what you already have concluded from you liberal perspective on life.

So back to the begining. What do you think we should do about jobs in Vt now that you have gotten your liberal rant about raising taxes on the rich off your chest?
Techie

Brattleboro, VT

#2 Dec 28, 2010
Yes there have been a lot of people who got rich during the last 30 years. But what good is it to talk about the percentage of total wealth that a small minority has without talking about where the money came from and how it affected the rest of us.

The bottom line is that the US ...all of us...got wealthier during that time period. The top earners got wealthy because the US and World underwent a technological revolution in that time and those who got weathy were in on the creation of the intellectual property that caused it to happen. The Microsofts, Googles, Apples, etc. etc. etc. were the source of that enormous wealth building and it did not come at the expense of the middle class or the people of Vermont.

You calling out "injustice" as if there is some sort of class warfare is not going to solve the problem. The efficiencies created by the technological revolution means we need less people working. The contraction we are working through isn't about who has more, it is about how are we going to adjust as a nation to the fact that we have lost a lot of very good jobs that aren't coming back unless we innovate and create a new need for those jobs.

We are not going to get the jobs back by raising taxes. In fact the more we raise them the longer it will take for this economic contraction to resolve itself. What we need in Vermont is an infusion of capital from entrepeneurs from outside of Vermont. Why outside? Because we don't have the capital here. How are we going to attract them? Do we continue to tell them come here because it is pretty here? Or do we tell them to come here because we do more for business than any other state.
taxman

Dover, NH

#3 Dec 28, 2010
"Contraction" is the right word. If you want to read more about it check out Milton Friedman.
mike mulligan

Boston, MA

#4 Dec 28, 2010
I got Robert Reich signature as the last level with denying me my VY whistleblower suit. He would not even look into it...or his president Clinton Department Of Labor agency he was heading wouldn't even give me a call to discuss my issues.

Behind the curtains, you never know what they stand for and how much they sell their souls for, to be placed into position.

I think this guy is two faced!

mike mulligan

Boston, MA

#5 Dec 28, 2010
This doesn't align with the Reformer's happy land touristation Vermont is number one or in the top 5 list, in the last few years, of we live in a beautiful dream world.

What it is, and what they say it is, is vastly differant.

"In the past three years, Vermont has lost 13,500 jobs, but the past decade has been the worst 10 years for job growth in the state since the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics began keeping records in 1939, according to a report from the Public Assets Institute.
Between 1940 and 2000, Vermont’s job growth ranged between 11 and 37 percent, according to the "State of Working Vermont 2010."

"By contrast, job growth for the entire first seven years of this decade came to just 3.2 percent," states the report.

By the end of 2009, Vermont had a net loss in jobs for the decade and by the fall of 2010 Vermont’s private employers were providing 10,000 fewer jobs than they were 10 years ago, according to the report.

The report also found that real median household income in Vermont was lower in 2009, at $50,619, than it was in 1999."
April

Morrisville, VT

#6 Dec 28, 2010
A return to trsditional values would re-trigger our economy.
Investing Addict

Brattleboro, VT

#7 Dec 29, 2010
April wrote:
A return to trsditional values would re-trigger our economy.
Well, you might be quite right. But it won't happen. We not consume FAR more than we create, therefore it simply is not possible that this system will stand for long.

How will the fall play out exactly? Who the F*ck knows, but it will happen. Details, timing and such are all up in the air. But you cannot spend more than you make forever. And our infrastructure has been outsourced since the 80's, and we cannot rebuild it in time.

We can be a happy, good and great nation anyways. If we have the bollocks ... the courage.
XXX

Springfield, MA

#8 Dec 29, 2010
as long as the moocher mentality continues to grow, the economics of Vermont will continue to shrink.

the growing, parasitic nature of government control of our money is not viable. if production decreases, the mooch money decreases. economics 101.

those who can are leaving to live in citizen friendly states that do not just see them as a revenue source. the recent census data backs this up.
Moses

Brattleboro, VT

#9 Dec 29, 2010
mike mulligan wrote:
This doesn't align with the Reformer's happy land touristation Vermont is number one or in the top 5 list, in the last few years, of we live in a beautiful dream world.
What it is, and what they say it is, is vastly differant.
"In the past three years, Vermont has lost 13,500 jobs, but the past decade has been the worst 10 years for job growth in the state since the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics began keeping records in 1939, according to a report from the Public Assets Institute.
Between 1940 and 2000, Vermont’s job growth ranged between 11 and 37 percent, according to the "State of Working Vermont 2010."
"By contrast, job growth for the entire first seven years of this decade came to just 3.2 percent," states the report.
By the end of 2009, Vermont had a net loss in jobs for the decade and by the fall of 2010 Vermont’s private employers were providing 10,000 fewer jobs than they were 10 years ago, according to the report.
The report also found that real median household income in Vermont was lower in 2009, at $50,619, than it was in 1999."
I don't know where they got their stats but in 2000 the median family income, according to the US Census for Vermont was $40537. In 2009 it was $51219. I would expect in this current economy to see this go sideways for quite a while especially in light of the large number of Vermonters leaving the work force and starting life on retirement income which is usually less.
Joe

Chester, VT

#10 Dec 29, 2010
"The report also found that real median household income in Vermont was lower in 2009, at $50,619, than it was in 1999.

And, as with the rest of the country, the income gap between the well-off and the rest of the states wage earners has been growing over the past 10 years. In Vermont, the top 10 percent of households now receive 42 percent of the states income. "
==========

remove the government workers and than it gets real ugly, not only are they cashing in, they are cashing in at the exspense of everyone else.

The white collar class played off the blue collar class against third world labor, it's not the rich doing it, it's the average white collar sap and they are going to pay for it in the end. No jobs for their trophy children, taxes going up and up.

Suckers feel for some new economy was in the making and blew trillions on education only to see their trophy children working retail and waiting tables or unemployed on the couch. On well I'm sure things will work out for Biff & Muffy, they have tons of money after saving lots of money on chicom junk.

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