Multiple Heroin Overdoses in Same Region of Virginia

In the past week at least, nine people in the region - two have died - from what police attribute to heroin overdose. Full Story
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Hmmmmm

Charlottesville, VA

#42 May 19, 2013
C-Ville Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Question for you, Dude, Huck and Sez you. Would you legalize all drugs?
Even tho' I was not included among those being asked....

The fact is that our current drug laws were not designed according to reason. It is time to reevaluate all of it. That would mean decrimimalizing a lot of things that are currently illegal.

It would also mean the potential of crimializing other things that are currently legal. If you want to ask about chemicals in the world that are harmful to individuals and society, one of the largest and most dangerous "cartels" in the world is called "Monsanto." Meanwhile the jails, prisons, and courts are clogged with people who wanted nothing more than to smoke a joint.
Dude

Bumpass, VA

#43 May 19, 2013
Hmmmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Even tho' I was not included among those being asked....
The fact is that our current drug laws were not designed according to reason. It is time to reevaluate all of it. That would mean decrimimalizing a lot of things that are currently illegal.
It would also mean the potential of crimializing other things that are currently legal. If you want to ask about chemicals in the world that are harmful to individuals and society, one of the largest and most dangerous "cartels" in the world is called "Monsanto." Meanwhile the jails, prisons, and courts are clogged with people who wanted nothing more than to smoke a joint.
That's a pretty big can of worms you just opened there. I was going to go with the big pharma route.
Hmmmmm

Charlottesville, VA

#44 May 19, 2013
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>That's a pretty big can of worms you just opened there. I was going to go with the big pharma route.
Indeed. But long past due to be opened.

Of course, it would require a general populace that is much more capable of - or willing to know & think about things beyond taken-for-granted assumptions and sound bite civic discourse. Alas, that is the biggest can of worms of all, I fear.
Dude

Bumpass, VA

#45 May 19, 2013
Hmmmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed. But long past due to be opened.
Of course, it would require a general populace that is much more capable of - or willing to know & think about things beyond taken-for-granted assumptions and sound bite civic discourse. Alas, that is the biggest can of worms of all, I fear.
But...but... the finale of American Idol...



"People who don't know any better will always be in the dark because the power lies in the hands of men who take good care that ordinary folk don't understand, in the hands, that is, of the government."
~Cesare Pavese

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/prop...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/amywestervelt/201...

Ultimately, we are a nation of idiots.
Boodreau

Waynesboro, VA

#46 May 19, 2013
There is no shortage of illegal drugs. Addicts are not sittin around saying it is to bad my drug of choice is illegal cause I can't find it anywhere. From the largest cities to the most rural areas, addicts are getting their daily fix and funding violent cartels. As for stills, sure they exist but they don't affect the legal trade. I don't think moonshiners are shooting people over street corners or beheading people
What nut

Charlottesville, VA

#47 May 19, 2013
Hmmmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what I'm thinking.
The actual physiological effects of opiates on the body are really not that bad. I'm well aware that that's not what it looks like - heroin addiction appears to be very harmful to physical and mental health. But most of the observed effects actually come from the fact that it is illegal. People end up with who-knows-what in the supply. They have to pay a lot and because it is an addiction (that goes beyond mere "will power" - its not just a mental state) end up doing stupid things with money including ending up with substandard diets and living situations. They end up having to deal with seedy underworlds. As with most drugs, heroin would be much safer both for the public and for addicts if it was illegal.
If the logic for illegality is now to prevent addiction and keep people "sober" so they don't turn into drop out bums then its time to go after alcohol again. Of course, we already know that Prohibition caused many more problems than it solved. We just seem to have learned little to nothing from that whole episode.
Wrong on so many levels. Even Amsterdam decided legalizing heroin was not worth it. What you and others fail to understand is that making it legal makes it more acceptable to try... then you have more addicts. You've obviously had no experience with a heroin addict. They are the worst thieves, hustlers, and whiny creatures to roam the earth.

Just because you make it legal doesn't solve the problem. Will you have 24/7 access to the drug? and if you do, will they work to pay for it or steal, etc.

You are correct about alcohol. But why add more problems because we already have one?
What nut

Charlottesville, VA

#49 May 19, 2013
Oh yea. While it is true that the physiological effects of opiates really aren't that bad for the body.... not eating because you'd rather by heroin is...
What nut

Charlottesville, VA

#50 May 19, 2013
*buy* heroin
Dude

Bumpass, VA

#52 May 19, 2013
What nut wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong on so many levels. Even Amsterdam decided legalizing heroin was not worth it. What you and others fail to understand is that making it legal makes it more acceptable to try... then you have more addicts. You've obviously had no experience with a heroin addict. They are the worst thieves, hustlers, and whiny creatures to roam the earth.
Just because you make it legal doesn't solve the problem. Will you have 24/7 access to the drug? and if you do, will they work to pay for it or steal, etc.
You are correct about alcohol. But why add more problems because we already have one?
One thing is for sure, what we have been doing is failing and expensive.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...
Hmmmmm

Charlottesville, VA

#53 May 19, 2013
What nut wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong on so many levels. Even Amsterdam decided legalizing heroin was not worth it. What you and others fail to understand is that making it legal makes it more acceptable to try... then you have more addicts. You've obviously had no experience with a heroin addict. They are the worst thieves, hustlers, and whiny creatures to roam the earth.
Just because you make it legal doesn't solve the problem. Will you have 24/7 access to the drug? and if you do, will they work to pay for it or steal, etc.
You are correct about alcohol. But why add more problems because we already have one?
You have completely missed the point.

"They are the worst thieves, hustlers, and whiny creatures to roam the earth."

Yes - largely because the illegality of the drug makes it more expensive and more difficult to get.

"Just because you make it legal doesn't solve the problem."

I didn't claim that it would. Nor would do I know of anyone who would. But you are automatically assuming that it would solve nothing or perhaps make it worse. I think exactly the opposite. I think it would greatly reduce the problems, and there is plenty of reason to believe as much. Meanwhile, the only thing criminalization does is make it clear that the "war on drugs" will not solve anything. It creates massive expense and massive problems.

One of the biggest reasons that opiates were ever criminalized to begin with, btw, was just racism plan and simple. It was big among the floods of Chinese laborers. That coupled with the same Victorian hatred of intoxication is why opiates are controlled substances to begin with.
What nut

Charlottesville, VA

#55 May 19, 2013
Hmmmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
You have completely missed the point.
"They are the worst thieves, hustlers, and whiny creatures to roam the earth."
Yes - largely because the illegality of the drug makes it more expensive and more difficult to get.
"Just because you make it legal doesn't solve the problem."
I didn't claim that it would. Nor would do I know of anyone who would. But you are automatically assuming that it would solve nothing or perhaps make it worse. I think exactly the opposite. I think it would greatly reduce the problems, and there is plenty of reason to believe as much. Meanwhile, the only thing criminalization does is make it clear that the "war on drugs" will not solve anything. It creates massive expense and massive problems.
One of the biggest reasons that opiates were ever criminalized to begin with, btw, was just racism plan and simple. It was big among the floods of Chinese laborers. That coupled with the same Victorian hatred of intoxication is why opiates are controlled substances to begin with.
I haven't missed the point at all. Make the drug less expensive and you create more and more users with higher tolerances- thus they need more (of a less expensive high) to get by, or in the case of heroin, not to get sick. I would submit that certain types of drugs are more addicting than others (thus the schedule of drugs). This is true. It has nothing to do with the legality of the drug. Look at the abuse of prescription drugs which takes a huge toll on families- because of availability. You can argue all you want, but it's not that easy to just go out and buy heroin- because it is illegal.

Don't bring racism into an important societal health issues, because it no longer applies and is BS. It's just so convenient and wrong. Go to a crack infested neighborhood and ask the law abiding citizens if crack cocaine should be legalized. They will say emphatically "no." Ask dealers of crack if they use crack- again "No" because it makes you a creature of addiction so much faster than other drugs. Making it legal would not change this fact.

I've never seen anyone trade their kids for a beer, but have for crack.(yes, I'm writing what you think I'm writing.) Legalizing some drugs wouldn't change much.

Most people who argue for the legalization of all drugs have no experience with the generational problems created by the abuse of those drugs (crack, meth, oxy, and others). This abuse has nothing to do with cost, merely access and addiction.

Marijuana is another issue and should be revisited.
Dude

Bumpass, VA

#56 May 19, 2013
What nut wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't missed the point at all. Make the drug less expensive and you create more and more users with higher tolerances- thus they need more (of a less expensive high) to get by, or in the case of heroin, not to get sick. I would submit that certain types of drugs are more addicting than others (thus the schedule of drugs). This is true. It has nothing to do with the legality of the drug. Look at the abuse of prescription drugs which takes a huge toll on families- because of availability. You can argue all you want, but it's not that easy to just go out and buy heroin- because it is illegal.
Don't bring racism into an important societal health issues, because it no longer applies and is BS. It's just so convenient and wrong. Go to a crack infested neighborhood and ask the law abiding citizens if crack cocaine should be legalized. They will say emphatically "no." Ask dealers of crack if they use crack- again "No" because it makes you a creature of addiction so much faster than other drugs. Making it legal would not change this fact.
I've never seen anyone trade their kids for a beer, but have for crack.(yes, I'm writing what you think I'm writing.) Legalizing some drugs wouldn't change much.
Most people who argue for the legalization of all drugs have no experience with the generational problems created by the abuse of those drugs (crack, meth, oxy, and others). This abuse has nothing to do with cost, merely access and addiction.
Marijuana is another issue and should be revisited.
Read the link that I posted. Nobody is suggesting that we make it available at Food Lion. What we are suggesting is a different approach. I think you’ve been traumatized by what you’ve seen, and haven’t thought out root cause analysis. Where there is a demand, the unscrupulous will provide a supply, do we want it in the hands of an unregulated criminal element?
.
A perfect example is prescription drug abuse, and the way it's being dispensed. It's being dispensed by health care officials, doctors that people trust, and nobody is talking about the dangers of what is essentially synthetic heroin. What they are talking about is Meth, and in the 80s it was Crack. Nobody sets out to become an addict, but this whole just say no culture is failing. The crack epidemic didn't come under control because of stricter laws, or the sweeping incarceration of large segments of our population, it came under control because in the 80s everyone knew someone who was either an addict, a recovering addict, or died from it. In the 70s heroin had the same stigma, and now meth is getting that same stigma.
.
One of the main arguments that prohibition detractors make is that if it becomes regulated, you can control the strength, quality, and for the most part, who gets it. There are pilot programs all over the world, some with relative success, like Portugal. Shoving people in prison and making them unemployable is not the answer.
.
I agree that marijuana should definitely be revisited; it's a gateway to harder drugs because those people that would sell marijuana to a kid would also sell meth to a kid.
zeek

Collinsville, VA

#57 May 19, 2013
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>It sure has reduced the number of them; outside of Appalachia they’re non-existent, and it's made alcohol infinitely safer.
Now your talking dude, just stay off the road n all is well
Hmmmmm

Charlottesville, VA

#59 May 19, 2013
What nut wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't missed the point at all. Make the drug less expensive and you create more and more users with higher tolerances- thus they need more (of a less expensive high) to get by, or in the case of heroin, not to get sick. I would submit that certain types of drugs are more addicting than others (thus the schedule of drugs). This is true. It has nothing to do with the legality of the drug. Look at the abuse of prescription drugs which takes a huge toll on families- because of availability. You can argue all you want, but it's not that easy to just go out and buy heroin- because it is illegal.
Don't bring racism into an important societal health issues, because it no longer applies and is BS. It's just so convenient and wrong. Go to a crack infested neighborhood and ask the law abiding citizens if crack cocaine should be legalized. They will say emphatically "no." Ask dealers of crack if they use crack- again "No" because it makes you a creature of addiction so much faster than other drugs. Making it legal would not change this fact.
I've never seen anyone trade their kids for a beer, but have for crack.(yes, I'm writing what you think I'm writing.) Legalizing some drugs wouldn't change much.
Most people who argue for the legalization of all drugs have no experience with the generational problems created by the abuse of those drugs (crack, meth, oxy, and others). This abuse has nothing to do with cost, merely access and addiction.
Marijuana is another issue and should be revisited.
Everything that you just pointed out are ALL observations made in the context of a legal system where these things are illegal. To try to draw inferences about what happens otherwise is illogical. See Dude's points.

And since you've said I've brought "racism" into it, I will elaborate. Our drug laws were mostly made when the mentality that produced "reefer madness" was not considered comedy. That was the point. Opiates were not made illegal in the US because they obviously and unequivocally created widespread social problems.
Lori

Montpelier, VA

#60 May 23, 2013
If people are dying, how can it be a good time?? A lost life is a waste of resources for all who need them to make this world a better place. It is a waste and a pain to families that will forever question what they could have done differently. People wake up, you have way too much potential to waste your life for a quick high that is lethal. Don't waste your life, use it to make someone else's life better. You are worth it.. in fact, you are more than worth it!!!

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