Why your religion has nothing to do w...

Why your religion has nothing to do with abortion: One outraged Virginian's perspective

There are 1598 comments on the Feministing story from Sep 17, 2012, titled Why your religion has nothing to do with abortion: One outraged Virginian's perspective. In it, Feministing reports that:

If you've been following the conservative assault on reproductive rights, then you might know that Virginia recently suffered a right-wing takeover that threatens to shut down almost every single abortion clinic in the state.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Feministing.

Joe

Palmyra, VA

#593 Dec 8, 2012
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Abortion is a choice of a woman/girl who does not wish to carry a pregnancy. It is HER body, her entire body that carries the medical/physical factors. End of story.
What about the body they kill, Who sticks up for their rights? What about the little girl that gets killed, what are her rights?
Ocean56

AOL

#594 Dec 9, 2012
JD in VA wrote:
Correct, I suppose. You can ignore whatever facts you want - that doesn't change them though.
Just because you BELIEVE something, like "it's a baby at conception" for example, doesn't make it a fact. But here's a fact for you. The ONLY person who decides whether or not to continue a pregnancy is the WOMAN who is pregnant. If it isn't YOUR pregnancy, it isn't your decision.

Here's another fact; motherhood is an OPTION, not a requirement. That means a woman can cheerfully reject that option if she doesn't want the hardships and responsibilities that motherhood involves. A woman has the same right NOT to have children as she does to be a mother. If a woman knows she doesn't like or want children, she is making the wise and RESPONSIBLE choice NOT to have them.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#595 Dec 9, 2012
Joe wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the body they kill, Who sticks up for their rights? What about the little girl that gets killed, what are her rights?
What about mandating that a woman/girl mandatorily be a life support system for another? I am sure men would have no problem if they were mandated to do the same, correct?

Women count, their bodies count, their lives and liberties count. The right to decide your medical/physical well being is amongst the right to liberty, she is the supposed citizen.

Again, what does a woman/girl personally benefit from carrying an unwanted pregnancy? No one to date has answered this question.
Ocean56

AOL

#598 Dec 10, 2012
Morgana 9 wrote:
What about mandating that a woman/girl mandatorily be a life support system for another? I am sure men would have no problem if they were mandated to do the same, correct?
Women count, their bodies count, their lives and liberties count. The right to decide your medical/physical well being is amongst the right to liberty, she is the supposed citizen.
Again, what does a woman/girl personally benefit from carrying an unwanted pregnancy? No one to date has answered this question.
Hi Morgana! Good to see you back. I don't believe male anti-choicers, especially the hard-line religionist ones, have ANY problem saying that a woman's primary function is reproduction. So they have no problem mandating that a woman be FORCED to stay pregnant and give birth against her will.

To these guys, it is ALL about the fetus. They couldn't care LESS about the girl/woman it would affect.
LargeLanguage

Flint, UK

#599 Dec 10, 2012
A babies life is certainly more imporatant than what you want, child.
LargeLanguage

Flint, UK

#600 Dec 10, 2012
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Morgana! Good to see you back. I don't believe male anti-choicers, especially the hard-line religionist ones, have ANY problem saying that a woman's primary function is reproduction. So they have no problem mandating that a woman be FORCED to stay pregnant and give birth against her will.
To these guys, it is ALL about the fetus. They couldn't care LESS about the girl/woman it would affect.
In what way does a women get affected child?
Ocean56

AOL

#601 Dec 10, 2012
LargeLanguage wrote:
In what way does a women get affected child?
Here are three ways a woman can be affected by having a baby, especially if she never wanted to BE pregnant to begin with. And this is just the FIRST three ways.

LOSS OF FREEDOM - Having a baby really does change everything, including the freedom that girls and women used to have in abundance. Once the baby arrives, that freedom will be gone, for at least the next five or six years and possibly longer. Teen girls and young women who become moms can forget about going out with friends, whether to the movies, to hang out at their favorite restaurant or coffee shop, or anywhere else for that matter. If they do go out, they’ll have to take the baby with them if their parents refuse to babysit. If the baby is sick or very cranky for any number of reasons, girls will end up staying home instead of going out. Girls who are still in middle or high school will find it much harder to do their homework assignments or study for exams when they have to care for a baby as well. It will be a very long time before girls get any of their former freedom back.

LOSS OF SLEEP - The first thing girls and women have to know about motherhood is that newborn babies do NOT sleep eight hours a night. All mothers, myself included, can honestly say that babies can – and do – wake up during the night as many as two or three times. Each time the baby wakes up, mom has to get up with the baby, feed the baby, change the baby’s diaper (which could be a messy one), and then get the baby back to sleep. When my son was a newborn baby, there were nights where I got NO sleep whatsoever. Luckily for me, I had completed high school and post-high school education long before that, so I didn’t have to get up at 5:00am to go to school after having almost no sleep. Those who are teen moms will not be so lucky.

LOSS OF MONEY - Whatever money a girl/woman used to spend on herself will have to be spent on the baby, and that cost is far more than most girls could begin to anticipate. These costs include diapers, food, clothing, baby equipment (car seat, crib, stroller, baby carriers, baby and child toys, etc.) and so much more. Anyone who wants to do the math can begin their research by going to their local grocery store and checking out the baby food and diaper sections. Just make sure you have a notebook and calculator, because you will need to multiply those costs for each item several times per week. That’s just for food and diapers, you haven’t even started on the costs for clothing, baby equipment and toys. That will add a staggering amount to your calculations, and the sum will be far higher than you could imagine. If you plan to put the baby in day care for any amount of time during the week, you will have to add up those costs too. Get the picture now? Having a baby costs a HUGE amount of money, which many girls and young women simply do not have, unless they have wealthy parents.
LargeLanguage

Flint, UK

#602 Dec 10, 2012
Can you prove mothers have to forget everything in life just to look after a baby? Sorry but the baby is losing his own self and his existence, you are only losing your free time.
LargeLanguage

Flint, UK

#603 Dec 10, 2012
As with sleep and money, deal with it yourself, otherwise go shoot yourself. Sleep and money aren't worth a babies life.
Ocean56

AOL

#604 Dec 10, 2012
Here are three MORE hardships of motherhood, that too many girls/women don't know about until after they've had a baby.

HARDSHIP #4 - LOSS OF EDUCATION AND JOB/CAREER OPPORTUNITIES – As hard as it is to acknowledge, a working mother of any age cannot have the same kind of freedom, flexibility or mobility as a woman without children has. If a girl cannot complete high school due to the demands of motherhood, she will not be able to go to college or vocational school, as both typically require a high school diploma first. That automatically limits her ability to find good employment, and she may well have to settle for a minimum wage job, which pays far less than what is needed to raise a child comfortably. Girls and women who complete high school may find that many jobs require a college degree or vocational school certificate, and without those, she may still not be able to get a job that pays a decent salary. A high school diploma alone is no guarantee of good employment, but all girls need one if they hope to advance to higher levels of education that their chosen job or career requires.

HARDSHIP #5 - LOSS OF MOBILITY – Those who don’t have children have a rather naďve idea that parents can just as easily take a baby with them whenever they go out. They are half right. Yes, parents can take a baby out with them, but it is far from easy. Even going to the grocery store with a baby can be a huge hassle. First they have to get the baby dressed, which can be difficult when the little one is happy being home and doesn’t want to be dressed to go out. After getting baby dressed, which can take much longer than mom expected, mom then has to put baby into the car seat, get baby out of the car seat when she arrives at the store, then carry baby around until she can find a cart with an infant carrier. Most grocery stores have very few of those, as I personally discovered long ago. Some may not have any. Going to a restaurant with a baby can also be very stressful, especially if baby suddenly begins crying or screaming for unknown reasons. Mothers who walk into restaurants with screaming or crying babies will find themselves the object of hostile stares, which usually last until they finally have to leave.

HARDSHIP #6 - LOSS OF PRIVATE TIME – When a baby arrives, a mom will quickly find that she doesn’t have privacy any more. If she used to read books for hours with few or no interruptions, that will no longer be an option for her. If she is a teen mom who needs quiet time to complete her homework assignments or study for important final exams, that won’t be possible either. A baby will demand her attention many times during the day, so she won’t have private time for doing the things she enjoys or needs to complete.
LargeLanguage

Flint, UK

#605 Dec 10, 2012
Ocean56 wrote:
Here are three MORE hardships of motherhood, that too many girls/women don't know about until after they've had a baby.
HARDSHIP #4 - LOSS OF EDUCATION AND JOB/CAREER OPPORTUNITIES – As hard as it is to acknowledge, a working mother of any age cannot have the same kind of freedom, flexibility or mobility as a woman without children has. If a girl cannot complete high school due to the demands of motherhood, she will not be able to go to college or vocational school, as both typically require a high school diploma first. That automatically limits her ability to find good employment, and she may well have to settle for a minimum wage job, which pays far less than what is needed to raise a child comfortably. Girls and women who complete high school may find that many jobs require a college degree or vocational school certificate, and without those, she may still not be able to get a job that pays a decent salary. A high school diploma alone is no guarantee of good employment, but all girls need one if they hope to advance to higher levels of education that their chosen job or career requires.
HARDSHIP #5 - LOSS OF MOBILITY – Those who don’t have children have a rather naďve idea that parents can just as easily take a baby with them whenever they go out. They are half right. Yes, parents can take a baby out with them, but it is far from easy. Even going to the grocery store with a baby can be a huge hassle. First they have to get the baby dressed, which can be difficult when the little one is happy being home and doesn’t want to be dressed to go out. After getting baby dressed, which can take much longer than mom expected, mom then has to put baby into the car seat, get baby out of the car seat when she arrives at the store, then carry baby around until she can find a cart with an infant carrier. Most grocery stores have very few of those, as I personally discovered long ago. Some may not have any. Going to a restaurant with a baby can also be very stressful, especially if baby suddenly begins crying or screaming for unknown reasons. Mothers who walk into restaurants with screaming or crying babies will find themselves the object of hostile stares, which usually last until they finally have to leave.
HARDSHIP #6 - LOSS OF PRIVATE TIME – When a baby arrives, a mom will quickly find that she doesn’t have privacy any more. If she used to read books for hours with few or no interruptions, that will no longer be an option for her. If she is a teen mom who needs quiet time to complete her homework assignments or study for important final exams, that won’t be possible either. A baby will demand her attention many times during the day, so she won’t have private time for doing the things she enjoys or needs to complete.
Time, money, and a bit of a challenge with your career and education do not equal life. Many people manage to deal with their hardships.

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#606 Dec 10, 2012
JD in VA wrote:
<quoted text> Now who's injecting their religious beliefs into the issue? I don't think you can say with any certainty that the fetus doesn't have a soul, and I'm not sure that's even relevant to the issue. It doesn't change the scientific fact that abortion destroys a developing human being.
Just because my religion happens to be in congruence with the opinion of the secular majority does not make the matter irrelevant.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say that whether the fetus has a soul is irrelevant. Then I say that your contention that abortion destroys a developing human being is void ab initio, since what differentiates man from animals, is the soul.

My contention is that abortion kills a potential human being. A new born, as much as a 1 month old baby, as much as my 9 year old daughter, are all developing human beings.

Be that as it may, whether a fetus has a soul is not sufficient reason, under any circumstances, for anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, to infringe in the privacy of a woman's decision regarding the contents of her uterus, both of which (uterus and the contents thereof) are unequivocally part of her body.

Bottom line, an abortion is as much of an elective medical procedure as a tummy tuck. Do you know of anyone who tells a woman she can't have an elective tummy tuck?

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#607 Dec 10, 2012
LargeLanguage wrote:
A babies life is certainly more imporatant than what you want, child.
It's baby's, not babies. Babies is the plural for baby and you would have had to use "lives" if you were speaking in plural. Not even you can deny that.

Asides from that, a baby is born. A fetus isn't, and its life is NOT more important than what the woman wants. No one has a right to tell a woman she MUST gestate and carry a pregnancy to term. Not even G-d has that right, because he gave man, and women, free will. And G-d himself does not disturb our free will.

JD in VA, now I'm infusing my religious beliefs.
LargeLanguage

Flint, UK

#608 Dec 10, 2012
Conservative Democrat wrote:
<quoted text>
It's baby's, not babies. Babies is the plural for baby and you would have had to use "lives" if you were speaking in plural. Not even you can deny that.
Asides from that, a baby is born. A fetus isn't, and its life is NOT more important than what the woman wants. No one has a right to tell a woman she MUST gestate and carry a pregnancy to term. Not even G-d has that right, because he gave man, and women, free will. And G-d himself does not disturb our free will.
JD in VA, now I'm infusing my religious beliefs.
Can you prove he's not alive?

“2014 TDF”

Since: Mar 09

Boca Raton, FL.

#609 Dec 10, 2012
LargeLanguage wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you prove he's not alive?
Can I prove who's not alive?
Ocean56

AOL

#610 Dec 11, 2012
LargeLanguage wrote:
Can you prove mothers have to forget everything in life just to look after a baby? Sorry but the baby is losing his own self and his existence, you are only losing your free time.
I'm simply stating the facts about the HARDSHIPS of motherhood, which too many girls/women are not told about until after they have had a baby. Keeping them in ignorance of these hardships is a bad practice, which I think needs to be changed. Whether or not YOU like my listing these hardships is irrelevant.
Ocean56

AOL

#611 Dec 11, 2012
Here's one more hardship of motherhood that girls/women need to be informed about, preferably long before a pregnancy even happens.

HARDSHIP #7 - DEALING WITH COLIC – For girls/women who are unaware, colic is a long period of crying, screaming and shrieking that can last for many hours a day, and even all night. It can begin when the baby is as young as three weeks old, and it can go on until the baby is five months old. My son had colic for almost two months as an infant. For me, it seemed more like two years. During that time, the crying usually began in the early evening and would last until past midnight. I would walk around the small apartment, carrying him in my arms, for hours trying to comfort him, but nothing I did really worked. He wouldn’t eat, and he most certainly didn’t sleep, and I was a wreck as a result. Being deprived of sleep, with a colicky baby on top of that, can really feel like torture for a mom after a while. I was no exception.

There is no escaping the fact that becoming a mother makes a girl’s/woman's life much HARDER and she loses most, if not all, of the benefits and comforts she had before she got pregnant. Too many girls/women are PRESSURED into having children by family members and/or religious community, and purposely aren't told just how very hard motherhood is until AFTER they have had a baby. I think it is high time that changed. If some girls/women decide they don't want the hardships of motherhood, that is fine. The choice for a woman to be childfree is just as valid and respectable as the choice to be a mother.
Ocean56

AOL

#612 Dec 11, 2012
LargeLanguage wrote:
Time, money, and a bit of a challenge with your career and education do not equal life. Many people manage to deal with their hardships.
True. It is also true that some women prefer NOT to deal with the hardships of motherhood at all, so they decide to be childfree (no kids by choice). It is for EACH woman to decide what she does and doesn't want to deal with.

If a woman decides she doesn't ever want pregnancy or children, that is HER choice to make, not yours. Deal with THAT.
Ocean56

AOL

#613 Dec 11, 2012
LargeLanguage wrote:
As with sleep and money, deal with it yourself, otherwise go shoot yourself. Sleep and money aren't worth a baby's life.
I don't buy the anti-choice belief (which ISN'T a fact) that "it's a baby at conception" or something equally stupid.

Sleep and money ARE worth considering, no matter how much you deny that. If a girl/woman knows she doesn't want to be denied sleep or money, and decides not to get pregnant or continue a pregnancy, that is HER choice to make, not yours. Deal with THAT fact yourself.
LargeLanguage

Mold, UK

#614 Dec 11, 2012
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm simply stating the facts about the HARDSHIPS of motherhood, which too many girls/women are not told about until after they have had a baby. Keeping them in ignorance of these hardships is a bad practice, which I think needs to be changed. Whether or not YOU like my listing these hardships is irrelevant.
Ignorance is no excuse!

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