FLDS seeks Bush's help, calls raid 'act of terrorism'

[4liberty1st]

James Winter wrote:

<quoted text>
I never said on the 3rd of April that he was there...in fact ...that would be impossible as he was in custody...I was talking about when he was still a free (albeit highly wanted) man.

EXACTLY!!

Thus you want these people in TX punished for what a scum bag who is in jail did.

He wasn't there. So punishing them for his prior deeds is the same as someone punishing you for the sins of someone else at your church.

[Proud Texan]

4liberty1st wrote:

<quoted text>
There is no proof of that. In fact it is coming out that the claim was bogus.

Unless you work for Texas CPS and have been involved in their investigation and work with these children and families, how do you know what "proof" they have and don't have? Their information is strictly confidential, as required by law.

CPS could not have removed these children without having evidence that they were being abused or at risk of being abused. A judge made that call, not CPS.

[joy]

Wonder if they were taught in their little cult school about the 3 branches of government?
Why in the world would they think the president could do about it? This is stupid.

[4liberty1st]

Proud Texan wrote:

<quoted text>
Unless you work for Texas CPS and have been involved in their investigation and work with these children and families, how do you know what "proof" they have and don't have? Their information is strictly confidential, as required by law.
CPS could not have removed these children without having evidence that they were being abused or at risk of being abused. A judge made that call, not CPS.

Unless you work for Texas CPS and have been involved in their investigation and work with these children and families, how do you know what "proof" they have and don't have? Their information is strictly confidential, as required by law.

And yes... they can and do often remove children without proof of abuse.

48 days... not a single criminal charge filed... meanwhile several "children" they have had in custody for over 40 days they now admit are adults.... but you want to pretend that DPS is honest.

Maybe you like living in a police state down there. I do not.

[Proud Texan]

4liberty1st wrote:

<quoted text>
And yes... they can and do often remove children without proof of abuse.
48 days... not a single criminal charge filed... meanwhile several "children" they have had in custody for over 40 days they now admit are adults.... but you want to pretend that DPS is honest.
Maybe you like living in a police state down there. I do not.

The criminal investigation is in full swing, and charges will be filed at some point. That is law enforcement's job. CPS' job is to protect the children until they know which of the FLDS parents will protect their children and which will not.

CPS knows very well that most children do best when they are with their parents, and will be placing some back with them as soon as they can. Since the parents [and children] were lying as to who the children's parents were, children's ages, etc., they had no choice but to assume all the children were at risk of abuse, and take them into protective custody.

Be patient; they'll get their children back if they'll stop the horrendous brainwashing and raping of innocent children.

[Stork]

How many of you have children?

How many days of seperation are you willing to cope with?

How patient would you be about being clumped into a group and assumed guilty until proven innocent?

Just hang in there, we'll get it straighted out soon, in the mean time, be model citizens and do like everyone else thinks you should.

[joy]

Stork wrote:

How many of you have children?
How many days of seperation are you willing to cope with?
How patient would you be about being clumped into a group and assumed guilty until proven innocent?
Just hang in there, we'll get it straighted out soon, in the mean time, be model citizens and do like everyone else thinks you should.

First and most important of all I would cooperate with the demands of the court. I would not lie. I would know my children and be able to pick them out of a group of 1000's of other children, as well. Submit my DNA with the father's DNA to prove they were mine. Simple isn't it.

[4liberty1st]

Proud Texan wrote:

<quoted text>
The criminal investigation is in full swing, and charges will be filed at some point.

You and I don't know that anyone will be charged at this point. I'm sure they will make up some charged to justify their civil rights violations but for you to just assume guilt is rediculous.

The bottom lineof my posts and points have been that they took the kids based on a crank phone call. Hello?

They kept women in their 20s locked up claiming they were kids when they had proof they were not.

If that doesn't concern you, it should.

Proud Texan wrote:

<quoted text>That is law enforcement's job. CPS' job is to protect the children until they know which of the FLDS parents will protect their children and which will not.

Horse dropping! It is law enforcement's job to enforce laws. Since no charges have been filed... then it is obviosu law enforcement has no proof any law was broken. Thus there is NO JUSTIFICATION for taking the kids. PERIOD!

Proud Texan wrote:

<quoted text>CPS knows very well that most children do best when they are with their parents, and will be placing some back with them as soon as they can.

Horse droppings. DPS is corrupt and after money. Nothing more. They don't give a flying f*ck about the kids. They care about perpetuating their jobs and their power.

Proud Texan wrote:

<quoted text>Since the parents [and children] were lying as to who the children's parents were, children's ages, etc., they had no choice but to assume all the children were at risk of abuse, and take them into protective custody.[/QUOTE

More horse sh*t. Like it or not, citizens have the right to remain silent. For starters.

Secondly, the claims you are parroting have been proven BOGUS when the judge ruled several women were adults as they claimed after the Nazis (AKA CPS) claimed these women were children.

[QUOTE who="Proud Texan"]<quoted text>Be patient; they'll get their children back if they'll stop the horrendous brainwashing and raping of innocent children.

Patient? While the state trashed the constitution and civil rights of citizens all based ona prank phone call? No thanks.

[4liberty1st]

Outstanding post.

Stork wrote:

How many of you have children?
How many days of seperation are you willing to cope with?
How patient would you be about being clumped into a group and assumed guilty until proven innocent?
Just hang in there, we'll get it straighted out soon, in the mean time, be model citizens and do like everyone else thinks you should.

[James Winter]

Stork wrote:

How many of you have children?
How many days of seperation are you willing to cope with?
How patient would you be about being clumped into a group and assumed guilty until proven innocent?
Just hang in there, we'll get it straighted out soon, in the mean time, be model citizens and do like everyone else thinks you should.

MY wife took our kids to Brazil to see her family. They were gone for 2 months. It was rough but it wasn't the end of the world.

But now, they are seeing that these kids do not even match their own mothers!

[Stork]

These kids didn't go on vacation, James. There's a big difference, and you know it.

[James Winter]

Stork wrote:

These kids didn't go on vacation, James. There's a big difference, and you know it.

obviously...but my kids aren't even 4...all they know is that their dad isn't there..they know their surroundings are different and that everyone speaks A DIFFERENT language...

yeah...it isn't the same...but for 2 months it IS something..my daughter was 8 months old when she came back and didn't recognize me for a day or so..

[Stork]

Dang, James, I know how it is. My oldest son went with his mom after our divorce. I really missed him, and he could not understand, but then neither did I.

[James Winter]

Stork wrote:

Dang, James, I know how it is. My oldest son went with his mom after our divorce. I really missed him, and he could not understand, but then neither did I.

yeah...that would kill me...My dad divorced my mom and lost all 3 of us...I can't even comprehend how much it would hurt to NOT have my kids with me..

I just have resigned myself to be a good father even if I am not the best husband...because I'd rather be a good in house father and tolerate the BS than to VISIT my kids or pay a cent in child payments...if I am simply nice to her and great with my kids...I have to call that a victory for me...because my kids deserve what I did not have- a good father! granted, I had my step father..but it isn't the same...

[4liberty1st]

James Winter wrote:

<quoted text>
yeah...that would kill me...My dad divorced my mom and lost all 3 of us...I can't even comprehend how much it would hurt to NOT have my kids with me..

But you're just fine and dandy with othger people's childred being seized by the government without any crime being provable.

You are a heartless pos.

[joy]

The FLDS men also lose their children and wives.
Read this story.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/po...

[Stork]

James, that's the same way I look at in my marriage. I am a grandfather by two of my children, but I also have an 11 year old son still at home. I just try to keep peace with my wife, with all that is in me, so I can be with my son. I didn't get to do that with my oldest son.

I bet there are lots of families breathing a sigh of relief in Texas tonight :)

[joy]

So you both agree the FLDS men have less rights than you? When they are forced from their families by a so called prophet, driven away, and their families given to another man? They are never allowed to even see them again, and if by chance they do, the wife and kids aren't even allowed to speak to them.
How is the right, with all the laws on visitation etc. with children? Is it only right for them, I don't think so.

[James Winter]

4liberty1st wrote:

<quoted text>
But you're just fine and dandy with othger people's childred being seized by the government without any crime being provable.
You are a heartless pos.

are you aware of the REASONS why my father LOST custody of us??

He broke the law repeatedly..and deserved to lose custody! Equally, these people broke the law...just because they haven't been proven guilty on welfare and tax fraud charges is not because they haven't NOR....it means that they haven't been prosecuted on that charge yet and probably won't get caught of the crimes they have committed...

no real surprise...Bush will not face ANY possible war crimes he may have committed...

[James Winter]

joy wrote:

So you both agree the FLDS men have less rights than you? When they are forced from their families by a so called prophet, driven away, and their families given to another man? They are never allowed to even see them again, and if by chance they do, the wife and kids aren't even allowed to speak to them.
How is the right, with all the laws on visitation etc. with children? Is it only right for them, I don't think so.

hey....none of us are talking about the rights of these men...

whatever happens according the rules of that Church are NOT based upon the US Code..these are in house rules that were placed by Warren Jeffs himself...whatever rules he places, they follow and do so faithfully..that is on them...NOT on any lack of free agency because of something the US has done to them.

Warren Jeffs is a joke..end of story..