31 of 53 teen girls at FLDS ranch are pregnant or had baby

[BONNYOSHEA]

4liberty1st wrote:

<quoted text>
You can sit in judgement of me based on a few posts on the internet if you like.
If you do... you are the one sinning according to the Christian faith.
Frankly, my beliefs have not changed. I simply don't like the politics and silver haired saints like Joy sitting in judgement of others at the churches.
But hey.. if snidly commenting about my faith sits okay on your heart... have at it.

sounds like you have passed judgement on them....gather together with believers in order to grow as a christian....isnt that what the word says ???

[yankeeuk]

4liberty1st wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm also semi-famous. So what?

Sorry, don't recognize your photo on your profile.
So whats it like to be semi-famous and rich?

[BONNYOSHEA]

4liberty1st wrote:

<quoted text>
Kind of hard to do when they take you into custody and claim you are a monor when you are not and claim your birth cirtificate and other documents are false when they are not.

we should let the lawmen finish their investigation before you judge them..

[BONNYOSHEA]

4liberty1st wrote:

<quoted text>
Nobody has even been charged and it's been 43 days. That you are a fascist and find that acceptable has already been determined. As has the fact that you would have people killed because they do not worship the same god in the same way you do.
<quoted text>
So... to hell with their civil rights.
To hell with the burden of proof being on the state.
According to your fascist ass, these people must prove their innocent and surrender their rights or they are guilty. You are one twisted un-American little fascist.
<quoted text>
No Adolph, it does not happen every day inm the US.
In the US the burden of proof falls on the state to prove their case beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Take a civics class.

you seem to get angry quite quickly when someone has a different view than yours... name calling is one way to avoid a discussion........ seems to be a lot of judgements coming from you also... Is that what you teach in your 'home'church ???

[BONNYOSHEA]

4liberty1st wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm also semi-famous. So what?

little bit of a bragger too..... fine specimen you are !!

[Hannah Rebekah]

I hope this helps...

Count the Pregnant Teens
Remember when
http://www.sltrib.com/portlet/article/html/fr...
Rod Parker, speaking for FLDS, said the "state's own documents show that just two teenagers in custody are pregnant."
He said he based this
"on a list that was given to him by an unnamed source who said the document was generated by Texas Child Protective Services.
Of the three teenagers listed as pregnant, Parker said, one is about to turn 18 and another refused to take a pregnancy test, he said.
"That leaves us with one," he said."

Try none? Unless others have turned up since then, the one who was about to turn 18 is the Jeffs girl who gave birth on the 29th of April. The other would be the 22 year old who gave birth on Monday (the state is still saying she's a minor, when asked by reporters. At least sometimes).

Remember when?
And a story today reports that:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/04/26/ap4...
"Two teenage girls are pregnant, and although identities and ages have been difficult to nail down, CPS officials say no more than 30 minor girls in state custody have children."

And remember when?
We're getting a clearer picture of how CPS is determining the ages of these young women (emphasis added):
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9091635

Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar said 31 of 53 girls ages 14 to 17 have children, are pregnant or both.
"This includes that group of girls that once claimed they were 18 or older," he said. "It was determined they were not adults."
He said some women acknowledged being younger and the age of others was determined by their attorneys or by looking at the women.
"I have seen them myself," he said, "and I don't see any that look like an adult to me."
Azar said he did not know how many girls are pregnant, but said it is a small number. CPS has previously said that three teenagers are pregnant.

And remember how cagey they were about the wording?
Chris Van Deusen, a CPS spokesman, said, "The only thing we can say is we're aware that there are 20 girls who became pregnant, and they were between the ages of 13 and 16.

Got that? Not "We have twenty pregnant girls, but there are 20 girls 'who became pregnant." In case that's not clear:
"That's not to say that there are 20 now, but at the time they conceived, they were 13, 14, 15 or 16," he said. "That establishes that there is some sexual abuse here."

"At the time they conceived," which may have been in another state than Texas- the ranch has only been there for around four years. Texas only raised the age of consent from 14 to 16 in 2005- three years ago. FLDS' lawyer is claiming that CPS is talking about at least some pregnancies that did occur before the group ever got to Texas and were not considered under-aged when they happened.
Remember this (emphasis mine):
One CPS document reviewed by The Salt Lake Tribune lists just three pregnant teenagers. The court document, also reviewed by The Tribune, includes women who became mothers before the FLDS' move to Texas or before the state raised the age of marriage, with parents' permission, from 14 to 16 in 2005.

[Hannah Rebekah]

continued:

And yet, at the very same time:
Azar was telling the press something very different from what CPS would say in court
Among the YFZ Ranch children are "dozens" of minors, he said, who have children or who are pregnant.
http://gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/25/more-...

And remember this?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2008-04/29...
A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3 1/2 weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. Two of those are pregnant now, he said; it was unclear whether either of those two already have children.

Two adult women have just given birth this week. Will there be others? Are there others? If they are, will Judge Walthers order DNA tests of all the men in the foster care homes where the girls are living?

The initial warrant was founded on a hoax. The subsequent warrant was reportedly because CPS workers saw pregnant teens.

Were these two adults the pregnant teens Angie Voss thought she saw? Will there be any repercussions for her incompetence?

(Hugh's been trying to tell me this for a couple days, and I've been working on updating this post, and then he went and made the point most excellently at Grits. Well spotted, Hugh!)
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g...
http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2008/05...

[Wilson Pickett]

Nut jobs all of you...

[4liberty1st]

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

<quoted text>sounds like you have passed judgement on them....gather together with believers in order to grow as a christian....isnt that what the word says ???

Not really. I just don't see any point in sitting in a Church with people who will never accept my family because we come from CA and not the local rural TN community we now live in.

I see no point in gathering in a Church where every song I have written and sold over the last 2 decades is going to be a discussion as to if they were "sinful" or not. Etc.

[4liberty1st]

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

<quoted text>we should let the lawmen finish their investigation before you judge them..

So we should just let "lawmen" seize kids without any proof of any abuse or any criminal charges being filed against anyone while they hold women in their 20s in custody pretending they are minors?

Cannot agree.

If they can't charge anyone with a crime... they have no ethical grounds to seize ANYONE's child.

[4liberty1st]

Good job of documenting the facts of what is going on.

From all I can gather, there are no pregnant children or women under 17.

Thus the entire thing is based on hyperbole pushed by the fascists in the TX CPS org.

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

I hope this helps...
Count the Pregnant Teens
Remember when
http://www.sltrib.com/portlet/article/html/fr...
Rod Parker, speaking for FLDS, said the "state's own documents show that just two teenagers in custody are pregnant."
He said he based this
"on a list that was given to him by an unnamed source who said the document was generated by Texas Child Protective Services.
Of the three teenagers listed as pregnant, Parker said, one is about to turn 18 and another refused to take a pregnancy test, he said.
"That leaves us with one," he said."
Try none? Unless others have turned up since then, the one who was about to turn 18 is the Jeffs girl who gave birth on the 29th of April. The other would be the 22 year old who gave birth on Monday (the state is still saying she's a minor, when asked by reporters. At least sometimes).
Remember when?
And a story today reports that:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/04/26/ap4...
"Two teenage girls are pregnant, and although identities and ages have been difficult to nail down, CPS officials say no more than 30 minor girls in state custody have children."
And remember when?
We're getting a clearer picture of how CPS is determining the ages of these young women (emphasis added):
http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9091635
Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar said 31 of 53 girls ages 14 to 17 have children, are pregnant or both.
"This includes that group of girls that once claimed they were 18 or older," he said. "It was determined they were not adults."
He said some women acknowledged being younger and the age of others was determined by their attorneys or by looking at the women.
"I have seen them myself," he said, "and I don't see any that look like an adult to me."
Azar said he did not know how many girls are pregnant, but said it is a small number. CPS has previously said that three teenagers are pregnant.
And remember how cagey they were about the wording?
Chris Van Deusen, a CPS spokesman, said, "The only thing we can say is we're aware that there are 20 girls who became pregnant, and they were between the ages of 13 and 16.
Got that? Not "We have twenty pregnant girls, but there are 20 girls 'who became pregnant." In case that's not clear:
"That's not to say that there are 20 now, but at the time they conceived, they were 13, 14, 15 or 16," he said. "That establishes that there is some sexual abuse here."
"At the time they conceived," which may have been in another state than Texas- the ranch has only been there for around four years. Texas only raised the age of consent from 14 to 16 in 2005- three years ago. FLDS' lawyer is claiming that CPS is talking about at least some pregnancies that did occur before the group ever got to Texas and were not considered under-aged when they happened.
Remember this (emphasis mine):
One CPS document reviewed by The Salt Lake Tribune lists just three pregnant teenagers. The court document, also reviewed by The Tribune, includes women who became mothers before the FLDS' move to Texas or before the state raised the age of marriage, with parents' permission, from 14 to 16 in 2005.

[4liberty1st]

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

<quoted text>little bit of a bragger too..... fine specimen you are !!

I love you too.

[4liberty1st]

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

<quoted text>you seem to get angry quite quickly when someone has a different view than yours... name calling is one way to avoid a discussion........ seems to be a lot of judgements coming from you also... Is that what you teach in your 'home'church ???

I reply in kind.

When a fascist spouts that I support raping kids etc... I point out what they are doing.

This is the internet.... there is no emotion attached.

[Hannah Rebekah]

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

<quoted text>you seem to get angry quite quickly when someone has a different view than yours... name calling is one way to avoid a discussion........ seems to be a lot of judgements coming from you also... Is that what you teach in your 'home'church ???

Hey Bonny Girl,
If I remember right...wasn't it you who attacked me so violently one night and all the others (non-LDS) defended me against your relentless attack? Don't you think you are talking out of both sides of your mouth? Do you know what the meaning of hypocrite is?

[Hannah Rebekah]

4liberty1st wrote:

Good job of documenting the facts of what is going on.
From all I can gather, there are no pregnant children or women under 17.
Thus the entire thing is based on hyperbole pushed by the fascists in the TX CPS org.
<quoted text>

This is exactly the same conclusion that I've come to. I think CPS is taking time to cover their assets before it all comes crumbling down around them. Public seniment is not on their side anymore...all the crying out has ceased except by the most uninformed.
I thought it quite telling how many claimed they were against polygamy and Texas would not put up with this and now there is another polygamy group that has nothing to do with the FLDS or Mormons in anyway and no one is going in there to round up their children to imprison them. What most Christians aren't aware of is all the Born-Again Evangelical Christian Polygamist there are...I didn't know about them either until just recently but it's about a 12 year old movement and they claim it's Biblical....who knew? LOL!!! I even put together a thread about these polygamist who are actively working to get the laws changed, one of them has even been on the 700 club...and they also have a dating website to meet other Christians who want to find a sister wife. Here's the link to the information I came across about them. One story claims there are about 50,000 of them and there are only about 35,000 FLDS.
http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/latter-da...

[Tex]

I have lived in Texas for many years and have only known one Morman who was from somewhere else and she and her husband eventually moved to where her Morman mom lived.

I have never known any polygamist people or families.
Big Love was my first view at a fictional scenario of suburban and compound polygamists.

I don't know where all this evangelical polygamist info is coming from.

I'm not feeling well. I think reading up on this daily took its toll, so I turned away from it for a while.

Can't lose sight of what is important.

[BONNYOSHEA]

Hannah Rebekah wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey Bonny Girl,
If I remember right...wasn't it you who attacked me so violently one night and all the others (non-LDS) defended me against your relentless attack? Don't you think you are talking out of both sides of your mouth? Do you know what the meaning of hypocrite is?

I did not attack you,but i did attack your false beliefs... and will continue to attack false teachings... I have noticed that when you are trying to prove one of your false teachings ,you never prove it with scripture.....its always here is a video made by bishop...so and so.......or here is some writings from mormon two two....etc......... prove your beliefs from scripture ie. the bible...

[BONNYOSHEA]

4liberty1st wrote:

<quoted text>
I reply in kind.
When a fascist spouts that I support raping kids etc... I point out what they are doing.
This is the internet.... there is no emotion attached.

when a person thinks they are never wrong or is of the mind set that others are against them,they have a unteachable spirit....... if its not your way its the high way.....sad but true in your case i am afraid !

[4liberty1st]

That's a funny post because I was just chided in another thread for admitting I was wrong.

But hey... We both understand why your every post is about me.:)

[Hannah Rebekah]

BONNYOSHEA wrote:

<quoted text>I did not attack you,but i did attack your false beliefs... and will continue to attack false teachings... I have noticed that when you are trying to prove one of your false teachings ,you never prove it with scripture.....its always here is a video made by bishop...so and so.......or here is some writings from mormon two two....etc......... prove your beliefs from scripture ie. the bible...

BONNYOSHEA went to study at an English university and was living in the hall of residence with all the other students there.
After she'd been there a month, her mother came to visit her.
"How do you get along with the other students, BONNYOSHEA?" she asked.
"Mother," she replied, "they're such terribly noisy people. The one on that side keeps banging his head on the wall and won't stop. The one on the other side screams and screams all night."
"Oh BONNYOSHEA!" says her mother. "How do you manage to put up with these awful noisy neighbors?"
"Mother, I do nothing. I just ignore them and sit here quietly, playing my bagpipes."