Once slow-moving threat, global warmi...

Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

There are 63856 comments on the Newsday story from Dec 14, 2008, titled Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt.... In it, Newsday reports that:

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#40636 Oct 13, 2013
Cut n Paste wrote:
<quoted text>
Glad we now realize that the past climate studies were "fundamentally flawed"!
The old models did not account for the ~90% of the heat going into the oyceans and that their programmed heat budget only looked at the <10% that was going
into the air.
Failed reading skills: the quote does not refer to "the old models".

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#40637 Oct 13, 2013
Cut n Paste wrote:
This logically means that melt rate estimates are likely in error due to the failure of incorporating thermal expansion resulting from the assumed deep ocean heating.
This sentence doesn't make any sense.

Not only are your reading skills fatally flawed, so are your skills in logic.

In other words you are a moron with nothing of any value to say on this complex subject.
Cut n Paste

Eden Prairie, MN

#40639 Oct 13, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Failed reading skills: the quote does not refer to "the old models".
Yes, failed indeed:
"[4] A key question is how recent and robust is the role of deep ocean in the heat uptake, because the advent of the Argo ocean observing system is known to have a profound impact in ocean state estimations [Balmaseda et al., 2007]. Another question is how much disruption there is of the warming trends by natural variability and from the volcanic eruptions, which contributed to the TOA imbalance but have not been factored into most analyses of OHC variations. Several decadal hiatus periods of the upper ocean warming associated with natural decadal and interannual variability, such as La Niña events, have been found in a model [Meehl et al., 2011]. Recently, the 2001–2010 interannual variations of TOA radiation and OHC have been associated with El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO)[Loeb et al., 2012]."
Your welcome.
Cut n Paste

Eden Prairie, MN

#40640 Oct 13, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
This sentence doesn't make any sense.
Not only are your reading skills fatally flawed, so are your skills in logic.
In other words you are a moron with nothing of any value to say on this complex subject.
Really??: "In other words you are a moron with nothing of any value to say on this complex subject." That's your summation of contribution to this topic of thermal expansion and it's relationship to ice melt estimates?

Not sure of your "moron" point... I was speaking of rates of "sea level" rise.
Trenberth suggests "missing" heat goes into the ocean causing sea levels to rise due to thermal expansion.
So how much of the past 17 years of sea level rise is from thermal expansion and how much is due to ice melt and glacial calving?

Logically; old estimates of ice melt (and subsequent sea level rise) could not be correct if the "missing" heat was not a factor in their calculations.

Your thoughts?

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#40641 Oct 13, 2013
Cut n Paste wrote:
<quoted text>
Really??: "In other words you are a moron with nothing of any value to say on this complex subject." That's your summation of contribution to this topic of thermal expansion and it's relationship to ice melt estimates?
No, that's my summation of your understanding. Please prove me wrong and explain clearly and concisely how you think thermal expansion influences ice melt estimates.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#40642 Oct 13, 2013
Cut n Paste wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, failed indeed:
"[4] A key question is how recent and robust is the role of deep ocean in the heat uptake, because the advent of the Argo ocean observing system is known to have a profound impact in ocean state estimations [Balmaseda et al., 2007]. Another question is how much disruption there is of the warming trends by natural variability and from the volcanic eruptions, which contributed to the TOA imbalance but have not been factored into most analyses of OHC variations. Several decadal hiatus periods of the upper ocean warming associated with natural decadal and interannual variability, such as La Niña events, have been found in a model [Meehl et al., 2011]. Recently, the 2001–2010 interannual variations of TOA radiation and OHC have been associated with El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO)[Loeb et al., 2012]."
Your welcome.
You still don't have any idea what the quote refers to.
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#40643 Oct 13, 2013
Cut n Paste wrote:
"Without the IPCC assessment, the public would have no idea that our fossil-fuel usage is heating up the planet."
Without the IPCC people would just be enjoying the pleasant Autumn weather.
This proves you prefer a know-nothing public like yourself..
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#40645 Oct 13, 2013
Cut n Paste wrote:
<quoted text>
Really??: "In other words you are a moron with nothing of any value to say on this complex subject." That's your summation of contribution to this topic of thermal expansion and it's relationship to ice melt estimates?
Not sure of your "moron" point... I was speaking of rates of "sea level" rise.
Trenberth suggests "missing" heat goes into the ocean causing sea levels to rise due to thermal expansion.
So how much of the past 17 years of sea level rise is from thermal expansion and how much is due to ice melt and glacial calving?
Logically; old estimates of ice melt (and subsequent sea level rise) could not be correct if the "missing" heat was not a factor in their calculations.
Your thoughts?
You think words analyze climate phenomena.. hahahahaha

How come they don't hire you to teach climate science?
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#40647 Oct 13, 2013
I know our resident deniers are USA-centric, so, don't look now, but there are three gigantic cyclones in the Southern Hemisphere right now.

Our Atlantic season being slower than usual doesn't mean there's no climate change.
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#40648 Oct 13, 2013
Speaking of man-made climate change.. "The federal government's research agencies have been largely shuttered, with scientists sent home and projects shelved," it read. "There are five Nobel Prize-winning researchers currently working for the federal government, all of whom are world-renowned scientists and leaders in their field. Four of them are currently furloughed and unable to conduct their federal research on behalf of the American public due to the government shutdown."

Among the agencies mentioned, the National Science Foundation has had it the worst. Ninety-eight percent of its employees have been furloughed, and the organization has not issued any new scientific research grants. The NSF funds non-medical science and engineering research and education programs across the country.

The National Institutes of Health, the nation's top medical research facility, has lost almost three-quarters of its staff, forcing it to turn away most new patients from its studies. Funding for the NIH became a focal point of debate early in the shutdown when reports emerged that children with cancer were being denied entry into potentially life-saving studies.

The majority of Americans may feel the greatest impact, however, from the cuts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. Two-thirds of its personnel have been sent home, and as flu season begins, influenza monitoring has been cut back, according to the White House.

Still, the CDC will continue its most important role in monitoring any imminent threats to the public's health, and most flu vaccines are produced by private companies.[cnn]
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#40649 Oct 13, 2013

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#40650 Oct 13, 2013
Cut n Paste wrote:
<quoted text>
One of the researchers (Trenberth) states the uptake of heat in the deep oceans will result in a rise in sea level beyond that which occurs from ice melt. This logically means that melt rate estimates are likely in error due to the failure of incorporating thermal expansion resulting from the assumed deep ocean heating.
Let's see if we can unpick some your misunderstandings here.

Ice melt is not estimated from sea level rise- it is measured by satellites.

Sea level also increases as the oceans warm- at any depth. This is already known.

The budget must close- this is true.

Sea level rise must equal expansion due to warming plus ice melt volume.

The thermal expansion in the deep ocean was not incorporated in previous sea level budgets, but those budgets didn't close.

Sea level was more than expansion due to warming plus ice melt volume.

If sea level rise had equalled expansion due to warming plus ice melt volume, and the figure for expansion due to warming had increased, then you would have to assume either the ice melt data were in error, or doubt the deep ocean warming.

But because the budget didn't close, thermal expansion due to deep ocean warming actually explains the observed sea level rise better, and gives more confidence to observations of ice melt.
Recent sea level rise has so far been difficult to fully explain: satellites measure global sea level rise since 1993 to be about 3.1 mm/year. The warming and expanding 'upper ocean', or the top 700 metres measured by ships and buoys can explain 1.2 mm/year whilst the water added by melting snow and ice can be estimated from satellite gravity measurements for ice sheets and other methods for smaller glaciers, and is about 0.85 mm/year.

Simple addition of the numbers above (1.2 + 0.85 mm/year = 2.05 mm/year) shows that the result from the upper ocean thermal expansion and addition of water mass is still about 1 mm/year short of the observed 3.1 mm/year sea level rise. However, some previous studies have had these numbers quite close to each other when the uncertainties in the estimates have been considered.

....

The model simulations give a sea level rise of 1.1 mm/year from the thermal expansion of the deep ocean. When that is added to the 2.05 mm/year calculated above, the result (3.15 mm/year) is remarkably close to the observed rise of 3.1 mm/year (which more accurately is 3.11 mm/year).
http://www.skepticalscience.com/deep_ocean_wa...

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#40651 Oct 13, 2013
Cut n Paste wrote:
So how much of the past 17 years of sea level rise is from thermal expansion and how much is due to ice melt and glacial calving?
Logically; old estimates of ice melt (and subsequent sea level rise) could not be correct if the "missing" heat was not a factor in their calculations.
Your thoughts?
I think you should do some basic reading on the subject rather than advertising and gloating in your ignorance and misunderstanding.

http://ibis.grdl.noaa.gov/SAT/SeaLevelRise/do...
Joe

Fullerton, CA

#40652 Oct 13, 2013
My great grandfather used to record temps back in 1920-1935. He said they drank wine and often made up temps for the log book. He said it was "close enough" for government work. Said everyone did it.
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#40653 Oct 13, 2013
Joe wrote:
My great grandfather used to record temps back in 1920-1935. He said they drank wine and often made up temps for the log book. He said it was "close enough" for government work. Said everyone did it.
Name names, dates,.. otherwise you are an annoying liar..

You posted the same tale more than once.. as if you could pass the smell test; you don't so far.

LOL everyone??
SpaceBlues

Cypress, TX

#40654 Oct 13, 2013
names include personal, government, and location names..
dont drink the koolaid

Eden Prairie, MN

#40655 Oct 13, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
Speaking of man-made climate change.. "The federal government's research agencies have been largely shuttered, with scientists sent home and projects shelved," it read. "There are five Nobel Prize-winning researchers currently working for the federal government, all of whom are world-renowned scientists and leaders in their field. Four of them are currently furloughed and unable to conduct their federal research on behalf of the American public due to the government shutdown."
Among the agencies mentioned, the National Science Foundation has had it the worst. Ninety-eight percent of its employees have been furloughed, and the organization has not issued any new scientific research grants. The NSF funds non-medical science and engineering research and education programs across the country.
The National Institutes of Health, the nation's top medical research facility, has lost almost three-quarters of its staff, forcing it to turn away most new patients from its studies. Funding for the NIH became a focal point of debate early in the shutdown when reports emerged that children with cancer were being denied entry into potentially life-saving studies.
The majority of Americans may feel the greatest impact, however, from the cuts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. Two-thirds of its personnel have been sent home, and as flu season begins, influenza monitoring has been cut back, according to the White House.
Still, the CDC will continue its most important role in monitoring any imminent threats to the public's health, and most flu vaccines are produced by private companies.[cnn]
Yes, and some of these scientist are saving the world from CAGW! Now they sit at home instead of working to save the planet. So sad that we are doomed because of this government shutdown because scientific advancements to solve the malady of CC is not considered essential.
Mothra

United States

#40656 Oct 13, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Name names, dates,.. otherwise you are an annoying liar..
You posted the same tale more than once.. as if you could pass the smell test; you don't so far.
LOL everyone??
LOL at you?

Sure!

Hypocrite.
Mothra

United States

#40657 Oct 13, 2013
Joe wrote:
My great grandfather used to record temps back in 1920-1935. He said they drank wine and often made up temps for the log book. He said it was "close enough" for government work. Said everyone did it.
As you've already seen, what you've offered is anecdotal evidence and the science "purists" here will dismiss it out of hand.

That's what they do.

Never mind that the reality of how temperature measurements were made back whenever, and by whomever, and under any ol' circumstance, they have to a "scientific" report before your offering is worth any consideration at all.

But before they actually read the report, they'll first seek to discount it by a verification of the author, the publication and the funding sources.

Having passed those measures, then comes the "peer review" hurdle, which moves depending on a variety of factors, which they'll decide later.

Whew!

And then possibly if you've met their even increasing standards of acceptable evidence, they trot out an contrary study from their ever increasing vault and announce yours is wrong, because they have a "consensus" behind them.

They're quite comfortable with the closed loop they've created.

That's just what they do.

That's what they call "science".

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#40658 Oct 13, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
These deniers are out touch with reality.. crazy people are posting in topix..
The deniers visit foreign climes and report the facts. The Maldives are beautiful, the sea life abounds. They import fossil fuel; they don't use solar panels or wind turbines.

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