Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.
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32,461 - 32,480 of 46,326 Comments Last updated 10 hrs ago
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34420 Feb 22, 2013
kristy wrote:
<quoted text>
No the Rockefeller Foundation is not the same as the UN. WWF was created by the UN though and actually I was wrong about Greenpeace...they weren't created by the UN. UNESCO is a specialized agency of the UN. In 1948, the Director of UNESCO (Julian Huxley) established the UICN as the environmental arm of UNESCO and Huxley then created the WWF under UICN. There is nothing evil about debt for nature other than we the taxpayers are on the hook and these environmental groups get a lot of land for from countries all over the world, so you know, they can stop things like dams that might help those in poverty get electricity. But my point was in response to a link that stated these environmental organizations operate on a limited budget and I was just pointing out that they donít. They have lots of money.
This was my original question to this thread:ďJust wondering, can politicians, governments, and NGOs who promote AGW be corrupt and greedy or is that only limited to big oil and scientists who are skeptical of AGW?Ē
So what you are saying is that scientists who publish papers that have results showing man is not the main contributor to global warming, they are then puppet masters of the oil companies. So my question is how come that only works one way? Scientists canít be puppet masters of governments? Someone stated earlier that governments are broke, yet they continue funding climate science. Governments are looking at ways to fix the financial messes they have made. Having a crisis and taxing brings lots of money into the coffers. So if you can say that big oil is funding science to protect their interests, political leaders in our government also need to protect their interests to keep their power and bring in lots of cash.
As to your survey, yeah, I canít believe there are 3% of scientists who donít think the Earth has warmed in the last 100 years. And yes, probably 84% believe man has an impact. What the debate is over is how much man drives climate versus natural forces.
Naomi Oreskes did a study and everyone agrees, because you know, thatís how science works. Once everyone agrees, then you move on and discredit anyone who comes along and questions the settled, no-debate science.
In honor of Naomi and her "merchants of doubt" I will post this from Dr. Fritz Vahrenholt (an expert reviewer from the IPCC) who wrote a book last year called ďThe Cold Sun: Why the Climate Disaster Wonít Happen.Ē He has this to say:
ďThe IPCC decision-makers are fighting tooth and nail against accepting the roles of the oceans, sun, and soot.Ē Accordingly, IPCC models are completely out of whack.ďThe facts need to be discussed sensibly and scientifically, without first deciding on the results.Ē
So why did you throw out that Greenpeace was a child of the UN? Right wing hysteria? And the WWF was only very indirectly the product of UN collaboration.

And you somehow misunderstood that the oil and coal companies are the puppetmasters who control their own small group of scientists. Scientists who are continually proven wrong in their poor research and sloppy reasoning, not to mention what appears to be outright lying at times.

So, since you seem to have comprehension problems on top of your conspiracy-everywhere mindset, I don't see where you have much credibility, especially when you lack any hard proof.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34421 Feb 22, 2013
marlowe44 wrote:
<quoted text>
The law says you can't do heroin, smoke crack, rob banks or kill your spouse, but people do it anyway.
wise up.
IF AGW was proved to incorrect the funding and the gravy train would be over.
IF.

The biggest word in the English language.

Or as Daddy used to say, "If a bullfrog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass when he jumped."
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34422 Feb 22, 2013
marlowe44 wrote:
<quoted text>
Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*

Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/obama/2012/10/20/li...
SO

WHAT?

What does this prove?

Besides the fact that you are a Fox News dittohead?

Fox News, known for its unfair and unbalanced news, and its unbalanced staff.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#34423 Feb 22, 2013
marlowe44 wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do I sign up for some of this Koch Bros. largesse?
You people are fools, trying to make the Koch bros. some kind of boogyman when the left has the entire LSM on it's side.
Ur becoming quite comical.
Yup, those mainstream media are SO leftist they got the election EXACTLY right! The right-wingers, meanwhile, got it all wrong. Who's biased & who isn't?

You people have NO clue what left wing media even are. NO clue. It's CERTAINLY not the MSM.

Here ya go, sign up for Koch bros $$:

http://heartland.org/

However, if you REALLY want to be on the gravy train, you'll have to get elected to Statewide office as a Repub, then work with ALEC. They'll put you in touch with lots of money people. Then they'll write the legislation for you to propose. You won't even have to read it!

http://www.alec.org/

The Koch brothers have essentially taken over the Republican Party, gotten rid of anyone resembling a moderate (remember all those moderate Repubs?) & made it over in the image of their father, a co-founder of the John Birch Society.

Luckily, you radicals will never win another national election. You're WAY more lost than the Demos were in the 70s & 80s. Clinton & the DLC dragged the Demos back to the center. You need at least that much now.

But the funny thing is that you don't even realize it. You actually think YOU'RE the ones who are the Americans, when you're SO far outside American political history you're completely detached from reality.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#34424 Feb 22, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
SO
WHAT?
What does this prove?
Besides the fact that you are a Fox News dittohead?
Fox News, known for its unfair and unbalanced news, and its unbalanced staff.
Actually, gcaveman1, I think you mean "Faux 'News'"!

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#34425 Feb 22, 2013
marlowe44 wrote:
<quoted text>
Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDelís subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Schneider Electric ($86 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc.($2 million)*
Olsenís Crop Service and Olsenís Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chemís subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc.($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp.($100 million)
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/obama/2012/10/20/li...
ALL the TINY subsidies the government gives to renewable energy are INCREDIBLY trivial compared to what they give the oil (& other fossil fuel) industries. The gov gives them billions every year in direct subsidies, lets them drill on government land for a song, & on & on.

Then there are the trillion-dollar oil wars in the Middle East. And if you think Iraq wasn't about oil, I've got this great bridge to sell you.

But of course, the most important subsidy of all is the lack of a carbon tax. Like millions (maybe billions around the world) of other people & their governments, you probably suffer from the hallucinatory psychotic delusion that it is "free" to emit carbon into the atmosphere.

It most assuredly is NOT free. It will be almost incalculably expensive in the future. It is already costing us hundreds of billions of dollars a year, NOT counting the above subsidies.

If you think the switch from high carbon to low carbon energy will be expensive, wait till you see the cost of not switching. If you think the US national debt is large, wait till you see the cost of unmitigated AGW/CC. The national debt is very, very, very tiny in comparison.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34427 Feb 22, 2013
HomoSapiensLaptopicus wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, gcaveman1, I think you mean "Faux 'News'"!
Yes, I use that sometimes. But Marlowe probably didn't learn that word before he dropped out of high school and wouldn't get it.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34428 Feb 22, 2013
From Forbes:

Thatís what makes this recent study pretty interesting. In it, a group of researchers applied those paleoclimatology techniques of finding temperature proxies to the modern era, where there is a clear temperature record. If those proxies match global temperature measurements, then it would provide independent confirmation of the global warming trend of the past couple of centuries, without being tangled up in some of the difficulties involved in normalizing the measurements.

To construct their temperature record, the researchers used 173 different proxy sources for temperature from around the globe. These proxies include coral, ice cores, mineral deposits in caves, lake and ocean sediments, as well as a few historical records like grape harvest dates. Additionally, the authors specifically excluded data, such as tree ring examinations, that have proved controversial in recent years.

They then used that proxy data, which they dubbed the Paleo Index (PI) and compared it to the merged land-ocean surface temperature (MLOST) records developed by the National Climactic Data Center. As you can see in the graph to the right, the temperature trends from the PI strongly correlate with that from MLOST.

As a secondary measure, the PI was also extrapolated back from 1880 (where the comparison to MLOST begins) back to 1730. Using that data, the authors found that global warming trends began in about the year 1800, just as the industrial revolution was gaining steam.
sid

Brisbane, Australia

#34429 Feb 22, 2013
marlowe44 wrote:
<quoted text>
The law says you can't do heroin, smoke crack, rob banks or kill your spouse, but people do it anyway.
wise up.
IF AGW was proved to incorrect the funding and the gravy train would be over.
You have unfinished business, reply to this by adding to the beginning of each one of these sentences: We all the ADELAIDEANs and Neville Benders:

Condemn, reprehend, admonish Julie chamberpot WORLD People (Iford Romford UK) in all her guises for her abusive actions, conduct and behaviour in all Topix forums.

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Reprehend Julie chamberpot WORLD People(Iford Romford UK) for being a black dalit sewer rat chharchhobi transvestite
MalbarKAKALatrine FUCKTARD and his cohorts for causing irreparable damage to the Australian and Mauritian forums.

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Condemn, Reprehend, admonish Real Indian PoonJABI Sikh The Anti-Muhammad Singh The Aggrolite for being a lunatic, madman, deranged, demented, crazy, ROMEO TINY Real Indian inferior midget turd, Rupert PIN DICK FOOFTER The Maniac Psycho Anti-Muhammad Greensborough Insane Lunatic Nutcase, a SPAMalot IDENTITY THIEF, PLAGIARIZER, ROBBER and IMPOSTOR Ringwood, Australia SPASTIC FUCKTURD PHAGGOT SHEMALE F*CKWIT.

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Condemn, Reprehend, admonish MALBARcaca shapeshifters, The Beady Banger, Beadys Brother Atlanta, GA, MALBAR CACA shirt lifter, MalbarCACA Bum Bandit, punjabi sid, SAD,for having given a whole new meaning to the expression "A race to the bottom" and for being Go suck on dogshit sid's castrated genitals idiotic black dalit sewer rat chharchhobi transvestite MalbarKAKALatrine FUCKTARD sIndians
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sid

Brisbane, Australia

#34430 Feb 22, 2013
HomoSapiensLaptopicus wrote:
<quoted text>
And?
Grow a gonad, coward, & sign on THERE. If you don't do that, aroun here, STFU.
You have unfinished business, reply to this by adding to the beginning of each one of these sentences: We all the ADELAIDEANs and Neville Benders:

Condemn, reprehend, admonish Julie chamberpot WORLD People (Iford Romford UK) in all her guises for her abusive actions, conduct and behaviour in all Topix forums.

Condemn Julie chamberpot WORLD People (Iford Romford UK) for her racist, bigoted and prejudiced opinions,views,comments and remarks.

Reprehend Julie chamberpot WORLD People(Iford Romford UK) for being a black dalit sewer rat chharchhobi transvestite
MalbarKAKALatrine FUCKTARD and his cohorts for causing irreparable damage to the Australian and Mauritian forums.

Admonish Julie chamberpot WORLD People(IfordRomford UK) for being an ignorant buffoon and a worthless vermin scumbags and VERMIN.
Condemn, Reprehend, admonish Real Indian PoonJABI Sikh The Anti-Muhammad Singh The Aggrolite for being a lunatic, madman, deranged, demented, crazy, ROMEO TINY Real Indian inferior midget turd, Rupert PIN DICK FOOFTER The Maniac Psycho Anti-Muhammad Greensborough Insane Lunatic Nutcase, a SPAMalot IDENTITY THIEF, PLAGIARIZER, ROBBER and IMPOSTOR Ringwood, Australia SPASTIC FUCKTURD PHAGGOT SHEMALE F*CKWIT.

Condemn, Reprehend, admonish cute Real Indian levi, LEVI, Levi boy ti IndoMauritian pilon IMPOSTOR (ID #13 United States, Australia chickyladyrentboy monkey of The ADELAIDEANs) for being deranged, obssessed and delusional and Not only dumb but a fraud, a liar, an impostor, a fraudster, a troll for hire and rent by his own admission but more importantly a farcical clown and jerk and a total doorknob Stupif DICKHEAD.

Condemn, Reprehend, admonish MALBARcaca shapeshifters, The Beady Banger, Beadys Brother Atlanta, GA, MALBAR CACA shirt lifter, MalbarCACA Bum Bandit, punjabi sid, SAD,for having given a whole new meaning to the expression "A race to the bottom" and for being Go suck on dogshit sid's castrated genitals idiotic black dalit sewer rat chharchhobi transvestite MalbarKAKALatrine FUCKTARD sIndians
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Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#34431 Feb 22, 2013
marlowe44 wrote:
<quoted text>
The law says you can't do heroin, smoke crack, rob banks or kill your spouse, but people do it anyway.
wise up.
IF AGW was proved to incorrect the funding and the gravy train would be over.
Every single post of yours is chock full of lies & illogic.

If scientists biased their results to get grant money, what would they have done about the cell phones & brain cancer scare? They would have found more connections to get more government grants.

Problem: the FACTS were that the best studies showed no connection. Just like the FACTS now show that the basics of AGW/CC theory are correct.

Science depends on repeatability. If a scientist announces a result, other scientists around the world have to be able to independently repeat the work. If they don't, everybody has to figure out why.

This means that scientists literally CAN'T lie. If others can't repeat their work, it could be they're wrong. That might just be embarrassing (remember cold fusion?). OTOH, if the 1st scientist is found to be deliberately deceptive, that scientist's academic career is typically over.

It's not that scientists aren't human or not susceptible to the usual human foibles, it's that the structure of science militates against lying or distorting. Very few other human endeavors have those characteristics. You can CERTAINLY lie if you're a politician or an oilman.

Besides, scientists care most about being right. They would never, EVER distort data now for money or glory, because they'd eventually be found out to be liars. The truth ALWAYS comes out, even if it takes decades or centuries. Always. The scientists who say "this is what it'll be like in 2100" are doing making their very best estimates, because they want people to look back in 2100 & say "so & so was RIGHT."

Of course, there are riches, fame & a Nobel Prize available to any legitimate scientist who can prove AGW/CC is wrong. There'd even be rewards if you were a genuine whistle-blowing scientist.

Don't forget, 7 of the largest 10, & 8 of the largest 12, companies in the world (by revenue) are oil companies. The money is in AGW/CC denial. Period. After all,

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzh8fhMUmU1...
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34432 Feb 22, 2013
From Climate Central:

While the U.S. as a whole has seen a warming trend that has raised annual average temperatures by 1.3įF over the past 100 years, warming varies seasonally, and itís winter that has seen the fastest warming.

An analysis of data from the U.S. Historical Climatology Network of weather stations shows that the coldest states are warming the fastest, and across the country winter warming since 1970 has been more than four-and-a-half times faster per decade than over the past 100 years. Winter nights across the country have warmed about 30 percent faster than nights over the whole year. Some states cooled or failed to join the warming trend over the past 100 years, but since 1970, every state has shown winter-warming.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#34433 Feb 22, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I use that sometimes. But Marlowe probably didn't learn that word before he dropped out of high school and wouldn't get it.
LSHMSFOAIDMT!
Wow

Northville, MI

#34435 Feb 22, 2013
Holy chit!
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34437 Feb 22, 2013
HomoSapiensLaptopicus wrote:
<quoted text>
Every single post of yours is chock full of lies & illogic.
If scientists biased their results to get grant money, what would they have done about the cell phones & brain cancer scare? They would have found more connec
This means that scientists literally CAN'T lie. If others can't repeat their work, it could be they're wrong. That might just be embarrassing (remember cold fusion?). OTOH, if the 1st scientist is found to be deliberately deceptive, that scientist's academic career is typically over.
It's not that scientists aren't human or not susceptible to the usual human foibles, it's that the structure of science militates against lying or distorting. Very few other human endeavors have those characteristics. You can CERTAINLY lie if you're a politician or an oilman.
Besides, scientists care most about being right. They would never, EVER distort data now for money or glory, because they'd eventually be found out to be liars.
Of course, there are riches, fame & a Nobel Prize available to any legitimate scientist who can prove AGW/CC is wrong. There'd even be rewards if you were a genuine whistle-blowing scientist.
Don't forget, 7 of the largest 10, & 8 of the largest 12, companies in the world (by revenue) are oil companies. The money is in AGW/CC denial. Period. After all,
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzh8fhMUmU1...
Being from Mississippi, I know I have suffered from small-town syndrome at times. But I remember well going to NYC, DC, Atlanta, Miami, and New Orleans as a teenager. And my recent forays up to Chicago have increased my ability to stand back and look at this mindset with acute clarity.

To coin a phrase....the world is a big place.

I suppose deniers think that there are a few dozen, mostly American, climate science manipulators involved in this global warming "hoax". I think they have that small town sensibility.

Because to think that this is a conspiracy, a government plot, is to think that these scientists can be like those crooked lawyers in town; just a few, but thoroughly dishonest.

When there are thousands of scientists, in dozens of disciplines, in a hundred countries, speaking a hundred languages, taking measurements with thousands of instruments, recoding miles of data, and checking each others work, both in the field and back at the lab.........and deniers think that these professionals are all working toward the common goal of fooling everyone for the benefit of the government? That these thousands of people are all crooks, they change the numbers, they fake the photos, they record their data falsely, furtively, instead of taking pride in a job well done? Man, deniers have a piss-poor attitudde about human nature.

Whose government? For what purpose? To raise taxes on their relatives and neighbors? What logic is in that? Are German and Swedish and Colombian scientists are running this scam to make Americans pay more in taxes? Governments are giving grants to these guys so they can raise taxes? Have you been awake the past twelve years and seen what has happened with taxes? Whoever this "government" is, he must have more compliant people that what we see in Washington.

It's just ridiculous. I wish a denier could explain how all that works but I don't think they can. It's just too complicated and purposeless to exist.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34438 Feb 22, 2013
HomoSapiensLaptopicus wrote:
<quoted text>
LSHMSFOAIDMT!
Sorry. Translation please?

I know LMAO, LMFAO, ROTFLMAO, BRB, OTOH, BTW, and LOL. But not LSHMSFOAIDMT!
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34439 Feb 22, 2013
The survey findings are a clear rejection of the dismissive tone taken by Senator Marco Rubio in his response to Obamaís State of the Union address. Rubio shrugged off the need for action on climate change, saying ďour government canít control the weather.Ē

Latinos clearly disagree with Rubio, with a strong majority convinced that action is needed soon to reduce a real threat of climate disruption.

Released on the heels of the hottest year ever in the U.S. and one marked by extreme weather, the poll of Latinos conducted by Public Policy Polling for NRDC found:

74 percent of Latinos believe climate change is a serious or very serious problem, a higher level than the 65 percent among all American adults.
68 percent of Latinos support the president using his authority to reduce dangerous carbon pollution, including 60 percent of all American adults.
69 percent of Latinos agree with the presidentís statement that ďfor the sake of our childrenĒ and our future, we must do more to combat climate change, compared to 62 percent of all American adults.---Sacramento BEE
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34440 Feb 22, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Being from Mississippi, I know I have suffered from small-town syndrome at times. But I remember well going to NYC, DC, Atlanta, Miami, and New Orleans as a teenager. And my recent forays up to Chicago have increased my ability to stand back and look at this mindset with acute clarity.
To coin a phrase....the world is a big place.
I suppose deniers think that there are a few dozen, mostly American, climate science manipulators involved in this global warming "hoax". I think they have that small town sensibility.
Because to think that this is a conspiracy, a government plot, is to think that these scientists can be like those crooked lawyers in town; just a few, but thoroughly dishonest.
When there are thousands of scientists, in dozens of disciplines, in a hundred countries, speaking a hundred languages, taking measurements with thousands of instruments, recoding miles of data, and checking each others work, both in the field and back at the lab.........and deniers think that these professionals are all working toward the common goal of fooling everyone for the benefit of the government? That these thousands of people are all crooks, they change the numbers, they fake the photos, they record their data falsely, furtively, instead of taking pride in a job well done? Man, deniers have a piss-poor attitudde about human nature.
Whose government? For what purpose? To raise taxes on their relatives and neighbors? What logic is in that? Are German and Swedish and Colombian scientists are running this scam to make Americans pay more in taxes? Governments are giving grants to these guys so they can raise taxes? Have you been awake the past twelve years and seen what has happened with taxes? Whoever this "government" is, he must have more compliant people that what we see in Washington.
It's just ridiculous. I wish a denier could explain how all that works but I don't think they can. It's just too complicated and purposeless to exist.
The compliant people in Washington now are the problem. If you want to follow some money, see who gets oil/coal money in Washington, both Dems and Pubs. And note their voting records.

There must be more anti-XL pipeline protests in the future, until the peoples' voice is heard.

Awareness is growing. Sleeping giants awaken.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#34441 Feb 22, 2013
Adm. David Titley, USN (RET.)

Itís all about the water.

Okay, itís partly about food and energy, too. But from a national security perspective, climate change is all about the water: where it is or isnít, how much or how little there is, how quickly it changes from one state (e.g., solid ice to liquid water) to another.

Because of the effects of climate change in the Arctic, for the first time in 500 years weíre opening a new ocean to navigation. The last guy who did that was Christopher Columbus.

Until 2005, the Arctic Polar ice cap consisted mostly of multi-year ice ó ice that had formed two or more years before the date of measurement and was generally 2 to 4 meters (6.6 to 13 feet) thick and much harder to break through than first-year ice. Since 2007, most Arctic ice is now less than a year old and less than one meter thick. Climate scientists now expect that by 2030 much of the Arctic Ocean will be free of ice several months a year, opening it for commercial navigation just as the Baltic Sea is now.

The opening of the Arctic is the most immediate national security challenge presented by climate change.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#34444 Feb 23, 2013
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry. Translation please?
I know LMAO, LMFAO, ROTFLMAO, BRB, OTOH, BTW, and LOL. But not LSHMSFOAIDMT!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php...

Lauging so hard my sombrero falls off and I drop my taco

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