Oregon bill would let illegal immigra...

Oregon bill would let illegal immigrants drive

There are 51 comments on the KGW-TV Portland story from Apr 17, 2011, titled Oregon bill would let illegal immigrants drive. In it, KGW-TV Portland reports that:

Oregon lawmakers will hear from the public Monday about giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, a proposal that's certain to spark powerful emotions but unlikely to become law.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KGW-TV Portland.

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texmex

United States

#1 Apr 17, 2011
Good they need too help our ilegal brothers and sisters,many have been living in the country for many years.That would help putting into the system.
USA 1st

United States

#6 Apr 17, 2011
They don't need licenses, they need to be deported.

Rico from East LA

“But it's so Racist”

Since: Mar 10

United States

#11 Apr 17, 2011
USA 1st wrote:
They don't need licenses, they need to be deported.
That's not what Oregon thinks. LOL

“A Nation of Legal Immigrants”

Since: Nov 07

Lake City Florida,/ Nebraska

#12 Apr 18, 2011
texmex wrote:
Good they need too help our ilegal brothers and sisters,many have been living in the country for many years.That would help putting into the system.
Illegal immigrants burden Portland-area schools

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2...

Since: Jun 08

Woodbridge, VA

#14 Apr 18, 2011
Fine (well not really) but if they are going to do this then they had better have insurance out the wazoo and if they are caught for any driving infraction, driving uninsured, etc., automatic jail and deportation. No tickets and "come to your hearing on X date," they are arrested and turned over to ICE immediately.

Since: Feb 11

Location hidden

#17 Apr 18, 2011
Great, so when they run a red light and hit my car, who is going to pay?????????? I'll be stuck with the cost of damage to my car and healthcare payments for my injuries. Are these people nutz???????? You give a bad dog a treat, he will keep being bad.
Amexico

Baltimore, MD

#18 Apr 18, 2011
Of course Oregon will continue to give Illegals drivers licenses. This is how messed up the US has become. The big LIE from the start from Hillary Clinton drivers licenses was to identify these Illegals. The real reason was so Illegals can now drive to steal Legal, Tax Paying Citizens jobs. Now look at the US, 45 states want to claim Bankrupsty and no state can not balance their budgets. The second Great Depression is coming!

Since: Jun 08

Woodbridge, VA

#19 Apr 18, 2011
Chris121 wrote:
Great, so when they run a red light and hit my car, who is going to pay?????????? I'll be stuck with the cost of damage to my car and healthcare payments for my injuries. Are these people nutz???????? You give a bad dog a treat, he will keep being bad.
As a dog trainer, you give a bad dog a treat for behaving badly, you reinforce that bad behavior and the dog thinks it ia acceptable so he will keep doing it. Not the dog's fault, it is the owner's fault for not teaching desired behaviors and reinforcing those from the start. Then when the dog bites, the owner puts down the dog (or passes the issue onto someone else), whines, complains and then gets another dog but does nothign to change the human behavior and the issue persists.

I love your analogy.

So, Oregon is becoming the dog owners I worry about working with. They keep reinforcing the undesired behaviors, fail to work with and enforce the desire behaviors and then wonder why they get bitten.

The problem is, when an owner gets on the ball and starts doing the work needed, things will get worse in the beginning as the dog reacts to the change. If the owner sticks with it, holds steady and keeps up the new rules, the dog often comes around. But if the owner waffles and starts to break because he/she does not like having to deal with stress, the dog begins to revert to the old ways and the owner's troubles return adn sometimes worse than before.

Hmmm, maybe I will use this argument in my next round of comtacts to legislators...

Thank you for getting me to think !

Since: Sep 09

Location hidden

#22 Apr 18, 2011
Biker Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
As a dog trainer, you give a bad dog a treat for behaving badly, you reinforce that bad behavior and the dog thinks it ia acceptable so he will keep doing it. Not the dog's fault, it is the owner's fault for not teaching desired behaviors and reinforcing those from the start. Then when the dog bites, the owner puts down the dog (or passes the issue onto someone else), whines, complains and then gets another dog but does nothign to change the human behavior and the issue persists.
I love your analogy.
So, Oregon is becoming the dog owners I worry about working with. They keep reinforcing the undesired behaviors, fail to work with and enforce the desire behaviors and then wonder why they get bitten.
The problem is, when an owner gets on the ball and starts doing the work needed, things will get worse in the beginning as the dog reacts to the change. If the owner sticks with it, holds steady and keeps up the new rules, the dog often comes around. But if the owner waffles and starts to break because he/she does not like having to deal with stress, the dog begins to revert to the old ways and the owner's troubles return adn sometimes worse than before.
Hmmm, maybe I will use this argument in my next round of comtacts to legislators...
Thank you for getting me to think !
Comparing humans to dogs makes you appear ignorant, and racist. It only weakens your argument. But, please use the analogy in your contacts with legislators. It will show your true character.

Can I be present when you compare the issues of the undocumented population to training dogs? Will you do it publicly? I bet you could sell tickets! LMAO

Since: Jun 08

Woodbridge, VA

#23 Apr 18, 2011
Behavioral work actually is very similar species to species to species. Every species out there learns throug experience, reward and some form of punishment. Some of the top animal behaviorists out there also have degrees and training in human behavior. We are animals after all and learn through experience, reward and consequence (positive or negative).

A child reaches for a cookie and no one stops him, he gets that cookies, he rewards himself. However, when Mom is there and stops him, child is disciplined (he has a consequence for reaching for that cookie). Child either learns: wait and ask permission (or) wait until mom is not looking and sneak cookie. It all depend on the actually lesson mom teaches. If Mom is smart, she will teach healthy eating habits from the start and teach things like have a healthy first then you may have a cookie (fill up on good, less fill on junk). If the mother teaches right from wrong instead of only punishing wrong and not reinforcing the good, the child is less likely to become frustrated, less likely to act out and punishment is more effective when it has to be applied.

A dog, sees a sneaker on the floor. He has no idea if it is a toy or not. He chews sneaker - what dogs do. Human comes in and punishes dog. Now, dog can learn that chewing shoes = bad so no chew shoes (or) listen for human's steps, when hear, move away from shoe. Alternatively if the human is smart, the human will train the dog from the start appropriate chewing from the start, etc., it is easier to handle inapropriate chewing.

Even wild animal learn through positive and negative associations. You can catch and eat a mouse but that toad will burn the heck out of your mouth.

The concepts of learning theory in all species is pretty much the same when you boil it all down. It is how those doing the lessons apply and teach those lessons that determine the outcome.

Most of the forerunners in human behavior also did a lot of animal research. You can take the "Little Albert" lessons and use them to desensitize a dog. The concept is the same except with a human (unless the language skills are nto developed well yet) you can explain what is going to happen. Then you have to make sure your words match your lesson. IE: You do X, there will be Y consequence then Y must happen. If not, you are either confusing the individual and they will act out because they do not know what to do OR they will try to walk all over you because you have to teeth to back up you talk.

And I actually HAVE lectured to various groups how I use different lessons and such to work with both humans and animals and the comparisions I have learned over the years.

There are quite a few books written on the similarities between human and animal behavior.

The Human Animal by Hass

James Jacobs wrote quite a few essays in the 1990's on similarities

Dr Ian Dunbar is both a world reknown animal behaviorist but he also as a PhD in human behavior. Tweaking Learning Theory for Human Brains is one of my favorite artciles.

Animal Response Similar to Human Response by R. Nauert, PhD - actually looks at genetic factors in animal and human responses to things like stress.

And Edward Lee Thorndike (landmark learning studies) spoke to dog trainers.

Much modern learning theory is based on computer models which have proven not to be as effective outside the lab because computers are less afllible in timing and such than humans. This goes for humans and animals.

However, there are many similarities in how species learn and react - even the human species. Stop showing your ignorance and inability to see that we are animals - we just evolved differently. If not for our ability to manipulate our environment, we would die out because we see poorly, are weak, slow, clumsy, have crappy hearing and are actually very easy prey. It was our ability to learn to manipulate our environment that made our survival possible,

Since: Sep 09

Location hidden

#24 Apr 18, 2011
BM, the immigration issue is a little more complex than training dogs, or teaching a kid to stay out of the cookie jar.
texmex

United States

#25 Apr 18, 2011
Cricket 23 wrote:
<quoted text>
Illegal immigrants burden Portland-area schools
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2...
And you keep beliving all the lies they keep writing and saying pendeja vendida.

Since: Jun 08

Woodbridge, VA

#28 Apr 18, 2011
Freedomx4 wrote:
BM, the immigration issue is a little more complex than training dogs, or teaching a kid to stay out of the cookie jar.
I am not saying it is not - it is VERY comples but one thing I have learned over ther years of lecturing, writing, etc (and I write far differently that I type here) it is just when you speak to the average person or even legislator, you have to bring things down to literally a 3rd grade level. When you make simple analogies that the average person can easily understand, you make a far better impression and impact (and keep them listening) then when you make them feel spoken down to.

Last lecture I gave I got many positive responses because the audience felt spoken to and the topic at hand brought to a level the layman can understand. This is VITAL when public speaking. So, though the topic IS far more complex, you have to simplify it when making comparisons.
Down and Out

New York, NY

#29 Apr 18, 2011
Freedomx4 - The ILLEGAL immigration issue never has been nor is it now complex. That is only a smoke and mirror ruse (calling it complex). The terms ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and ILLEGAL ALIEN describe the issue quite well. This is a matter of law pure and simple and there is ample law to halt ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and ILLEGAL ALIENS post haste if we ever find the resolve to apply the law as it is written.
Until that time we will only continue to deceive ourselves into the belief that it is complicated.

Since: Apr 10

Houston, TX

#30 Apr 18, 2011
Chris121 wrote:
Great, so when they run a red light and hit my car, who is going to pay?????????? I'll be stuck with the cost of damage to my car and healthcare payments for my injuries. Are these people nutz???????? You give a bad dog a treat, he will keep being bad.
You think a illegal having a license makes any difference? Many are Multiple offenders. illegal aliens driving under the influence is a cultural thing that they don't see anything wrong with it.

"drunken illegal immigrants—many repeat offenders—murdered or critically injured innocent Americans throughout the country, including children, teenagers, young fathers and mothers. Examples include an intoxicated alien who ran a stop sign and killed a 14-year-old girl and her 4-year-old cousin, another who ran over a 31-year-old father of three while riding a bicycle on Sunday morning, a man who killed a 21-year-old woman by slamming his vehicle into the back of her sports car and a teenager seriously injured by an illegal immigrant who fled the scene but was later arrested for a separate offense."

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/dui-illegal...
byebye illegals

Austin, TX

#31 Apr 18, 2011
Rico from East LA wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what Oregon thinks. LOL
Keep laughing the bill will never pass.

Since: Sep 09

Location hidden

#32 Apr 18, 2011
Biker Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not saying it is not - it is VERY comples but one thing I have learned over ther years of lecturing, writing, etc (and I write far differently that I type here) it is just when you speak to the average person or even legislator, you have to bring things down to literally a 3rd grade level. When you make simple analogies that the average person can easily understand, you make a far better impression and impact (and keep them listening) then when you make them feel spoken down to.
Last lecture I gave I got many positive responses because the audience felt spoken to and the topic at hand brought to a level the layman can understand. This is VITAL when public speaking. So, though the topic IS far more complex, you have to simplify it when making comparisons.
WOW Are you suggesting the average american can only comprehend at a 3rd grade level? If the terminology of your profession is not common among non-professionals, you may need to use common terms, but I think the general population operates above the grade school level. I certainly hope our legislators have a grasp on the issues.

Go public with your correlation between resolving the issues with the undocumented population, and training dogs. I'm very interested in seeing the response.

Since: Apr 10

Houston, TX

#33 Apr 18, 2011
More news:

"Kelly Bergen, 25, a teacher, was crushed between two potato trucks, an accident caused by an illegal alien driving without a license or insurance.

Min Soon Chang, a freshman from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, was killed by drunk driving illegal alien Jorge Humberto Hernandez-Soto, who hit him while going 100 MPH the wrong way on the highway. Hernadez-Sot had been previously deported to his native Mexico 17 times. That is not a typo.

Cheryl Ceran, 47, and two of her children, 15-year-old Ian and 7-year-old Julianna were killed on Christmas Eve by drunk driving illegal alien Carlos Rodolfo Prieto, 24, who ran a red light and slammed into their car. Also injured in the crash were Cheryl Ceran's husband, Gary Ceran, 45, their daughter, Clarissa, 19, and a son, Caleb, 12. Prieto had at least two other drunken driving arrests and did not have a license.

Deputy Loren Lilly, an 18 year veteran of the Cobb County, GA, police department was killed Christmas Eve morning on his way to work when an illegal alien swerved into his lane. The driver, Joel Camacho Perea, faces charges of hit and run, failure to maintain lane and driving without a license.

Marine Corporal Brian Mathews, 21, and his girlfriend Jennifer Bower, 24, were killed by a drunk illegal alien Eduardo Raul Morales-Soriano who slammed into their car when it was stopped at a traffic light. Corporal Mathews was on leave, after just returning from duty in Iraq. Morales-Soriano had a blood-alcohol level that was four times the legal limit.

20 year old Natalie Housand was killed when illegal alien Jesus Garcia Lopez hit her car while going 100 MPH, driving drunk. Amazingly, after the head-on collision, Lopez fled the scene.

Donna and Sean Wilson of Juliet Tennessee, were killed by illegal alien Gustavo Reyes Garcia who had been, arrested 14 times in the previous five years prior to when he ran into and killed them, again driving while intoxicated. Garcia had previously been arrested 5 times on DUIs.

Tricia Ann Taylor, 17, lost both her legs above the knees when she was pinned against a wall by a drunken illegal alien with seventeen prior violations who hit her while drag racing.

5-year-old Felix Leon was killed in a hit and run accident by illegal alien Carlos Jaramillo.

Ryan Ostendorf, a 28 year old paramedic, who was also a Kansas University student and who dreamed of becoming a doctor, was killed by illegal alien Victor Anzua-Torresa who had ignored an order to receive treatment after his previous drunken-driving conviction. Anzua-Torresa had also been previously deported in 2000 and been arrested for several other offenses, including possession of drug paraphernalia.

James F. Rogers Jr., 18, of North Jackson, TN was killed by Luis Oscar Garcia, a Mexican who had been living in the U.S. without a green card for three years. Garcia ran a red light. In addition to the vehicular homicide and DUI charges, Garcia faces counts of driving without a license, registration or proof of insurance. When police did a check on his license plate, it did not come back under his name.

Joshua Morrow, 4, and his uncle, Ronald Bishop were killed by an illegal alien who left the scene of the accident.

Christopher Shackleford, 19, Julieanne Pascoe, 18, and Kelli Bourgeois, 18, were all killed in Marietta, Georgia, by an illegal alien drunk driver. He did not have a valid driver's license or insurance but did have a blood alcohol level at twice the legal limit."

http://www.darksideofillegalimmigration.com/p...

Since: Apr 10

Houston, TX

#34 Apr 18, 2011
Updated: April 14, 2011 10:09PM

"A month-long, joint state-federal investigation has led to the arrests of three undocumented immigrants alleged to be ringleaders in documents forgery ring, and more arrests are expected.

Two men and a woman were handcuffed during raids in the Ogden area Wednesday and booked into Weber County Jail on numerous felony counts relating to production of bogus driver licenses, Social Security cards and immigration-related documents.

The investigation was led by the Utah Attorney General’s Office’s SECURE Strike Force. The arrests derailed a major fake documents mill purportedly operating in Weber, Salt Lake and Davis counties. The unit was assisted by federal Immigration and Homeland Security officers, said Rhett McQuiston, supervisor special agent with SECURE.

Jailed were Ubaldo Cosme Morales-Ramon, 40; Carlos Valdivia-Carrasco, 28; and Anna Maria Espinoza DeRodriguez, 50. They were being held in lieu of $70,000 bail each Thursday, charged with a total of nearly 40 felony counts of forgery, conspiracy and possession of forged documents.

Even if the three made bail, however, they would not be released. McQuiston said that in addition to the bail, all three are under immigration hold orders."

http://www.sltrib.com/csp/cms/sites/sltrib/pa...
sniper

Salt Lake City, UT

#36 Apr 18, 2011
To put it blunttlly what do you exspect from the state that legalized pot?

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