U study: corn ethanol is no greener than gas

Corn ethanol got its ears yanked again by University of Minnesota researchers, who say it may be no better than gasoline when it comes to the environment and it might be worse for your health. Full Story
joedirt

Saint Paul, MN

#1 Feb 4, 2009
It took a university study to know this?
Tank Murdoch

Hopkins, MN

#2 Feb 4, 2009
6:1 ENERGY LOSS

what a great welfare product brought on by the global warming scam

Since: Nov 08

Minneapolis, MN

#3 Feb 4, 2009
Anybody who doesn't worship nature knew this already, but I am a bit surprised that the U was willing to admit this.

Now, how long will it take for the politicians to stop using it as a tool to funnel money to their cronys.
Pete Wendell

Minneapolis, MN

#4 Feb 4, 2009
Centinel wrote:
Now, how long will it take for the politicians to stop using it as a tool to funnel money to their cronys.
You won't live love enough to see it stop, neither will my kids.

“I'm not crying... Winning!”

Since: Oct 08

Twin Cities, USA

#5 Feb 4, 2009
So many people said what a scam ethanol was, yet we had to produce it anyway. Now we find out it is worse than gas? Excellent.

Good job, hippies!

I can't wait to hear how the "green" nuts blame this on the corn or something.
Mrs R

Hopkins, MN

#6 Feb 4, 2009
Tank Murdoch wrote:
6:1 ENERGY LOSS
what a great welfare product brought on by the global warming scam
what scam????

Chill all the way to Florida

Tom Moore, Sr. Meteorologist, The Weather Channel
Feb. 3, 2009 8:42 pm ET

In the wake of the southern New England snow and wind event, the Northeast will be left with scattered snow showers on Wednesday.

A weak storm system over North Carolina by Wednesday morning may send some snow over the lower Chesapeake Bay and the southern Del-Mar-VA Peninsula.

Wind chills will be low with temperatures forecast to range from the mid-teens in areas near the Canadian border to the upper 30s in south-central Virginia.
Taxer

Hopkins, MN

#7 Feb 5, 2009
Updated: 02/05/09 09:37 AM
Frigid temperatures take WNY by surprise
By Gene Warner

Talk about great timing.

Buffalo State College hosts the national teach-in on Global Warming Situations today — a day the local temperature bottomed out at minus 6 degrees.

No evidence of global warming here, at least not this morning, when unofficial reports to the National Weather Service listed temperatures as low as 9 degrees below zero elsewhere in Erie County.
litesong

Mukilteo, WA

#8 Oct 15, 2011
Not too many places have non-ethanol gasoline. But I just filled up with 87 octane gasoline without ethanol, costing 22+ cents more per gallon than what I had been using. We'll see if there is much difference.
litesong

Everett, WA

#9 Jan 10, 2012
litesong wrote:
Not too many places have non-ethanol gasoline. But I just filled up with 87 octane gasoline without ethanol, costing 22+ cents more per gallon than what I had been using. We'll see if there is much difference.
Go to pure-gas.org for maps, addresses & commentary about using 100% gasoline(non-ethanol). Of our 3 vehicles, 2 of them set their all time high mpg records within 3 weeks of using 100% gasoline. I've kept records on the record setting cars for 22 years & 5.5 years, each. The cars are averaging about 7% more mpg than ethanol-blends. The 3rd car is averaging about 4+% better mpg, while my Ford Festiva hit 57+mpg using 100% gasoline.

Very marginal improvements in smoothness have been noted in 1 car. Another car seems to have a harder time starting in the cold morning with 100% gasoline as compared to 10% ethanol blend.

EPA runs their mpg on all vehicles marketed in the U.S., using ONLY 100% gasoline.

Since: Apr 10

Milwaukee, WI USA

#10 Jan 10, 2012
Ethanol is subsidized. If all the corn in the United States went to ethanol production it would be a little over 15% of our needs. It's an inefficient boondoogle.
Nick

Saint Paul, MN

#13 Jan 10, 2012
Before ethanol and detergent additives a 2 1/2 ton car would get 20 mph.

Give us a full gallon of gas and keep the 30-40% non-gas additives.

Since: Aug 08

Everett, WA

#14 Jan 11, 2012
litesong wrote:
"EPA runs their mpg on all vehicles marketed in the U.S., using ONLY 100% gasoline."
Correction: "EPA runs their mpg on all vehicles marketed in the U.S., using ONLY 100% gasoline.", should be,

"EPA runs their mpg tests on all vehicles marketed in the U.S., using ONLY 100% gasoline."
NobodyYouKnow

Toronto, Canada

#15 Jan 21, 2012
http://tinyurl.com/7pk2t4t

"SEAWEED TO BIOFUEL: Brown seaweed grows fast, is chock full of sugars to turn into biofuel and doesn't compete for land with food crops."

"Seaweed may well be an ideal plant to turn into biofuel. It grows in much of the two thirds of the planet that is underwater, so it wouldn't crowd out food crops the way corn for ethanol does. Because it draws its own nutrients and water from the sea, it requires no fertilizer or irrigation. Most importantly for would-be biofuel-makers, it contains no lignin—a strong strand of complex sugars that stiffens plant stalks and poses a big obstacle to turning land-based plants such as switchgrass into biofuel."

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#16 Jan 22, 2012
I'm sure some people would find reasons to object to seaweed as a fuel source.
Rash

Saint Paul, MN

#17 Jan 25, 2012
Ethanol and the school lunch program are both federal welfare for farmers.
Northie

Spokane, WA

#18 Jan 25, 2012
Dick In Dixie wrote:
So many people said what a scam ethanol was, yet we had to produce it anyway. Now we find out it is worse than gas? Excellent.
Good job, hippies!
I can't wait to hear how the "green" nuts blame this on the corn or something.
Hippies? You mean the US Joint Chiefs of Staff. Biofuels are a military and national security project, first and foremost; they are secondly a corn state windfall. The environmental argument followed along behind all that for a few years, but no longer. Even Al Gore has turned away from ethanol.

The military leadership is still pushing hard for this, however. Ethanol, algae biodiesel, oilseeds--you name it. For some reason, the generals and admirals think its a bad idea to depend on potential enemies for oil.

http://algaebiodiesel.com/bio-fleet-the-navys...

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#19 Jan 25, 2012
Nauseous wrote:
Even Al Gore has turned away from ethanol.
Well that settles it then.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#20 Jan 25, 2012
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
Enough from the peanut gallery.

Ethanol saves energy due to being an octane booster and thus allowing less refining of heavier crudes ( which are what we have left ).

In addition, it is a safe alternative to more toxic anti-knock agents, cleans the gas lines, and allows more efficient internal combustion engines. A fact that is critical to the search for higher mileage ( yes, less energy per gallon but more miles) for the clueless.

And it provides a 'second income' stream for farmers that have 'below food grade' grains, or who find farming specialty 'fuel grade' corn to be more profitable.

Up to 10 or 15%, ethanol is a very workable and effective solutuion. The E85 and E100 are not, of course except in countries where they are made from cheap local sugar and where oil is an expensive import (i.e Brazil).
http://www.topix.com/forum/who/barack-obama/T...
litesong

Everett, WA

#21 Jan 26, 2012
Northie wrote:
For some reason, the generals and admirals think its a bad idea to depend on potential enemies for oil.
Admirable idea that isn't working out. Replacing 100% with 10% ethanol blend, & my mpg drops 7-8%. Considering much oil energy is used to produce the ethanol, it is obvious that ethanol uses more oil than it saves.

Also, the variable mpg given by tanks of ethanol blend gasoline, indicate that '10% ethanol blend' gasoline is often NOT '10% ethanol blend' gasoline. Blending of ethanol must NOT be accurate over the entire country & differing times.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#22 Sep 6, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Go to pure-gas.org for maps, addresses & commentary about using 100% gasoline(non-ethanol). Of our 3 vehicles, 2 of them set their all time high mpg records within 3 weeks of using 100% gasoline. I've kept records on the record setting cars for 22 years & 5.5 years, each. The cars are averaging about 7% more mpg than ethanol-blends. The 3rd car is averaging about 4+% better mpg, while my Ford Festiva hit 57+mpg using 100% gasoline.
Very marginal improvements in smoothness have been noted in 1 car. Another car seems to have a harder time starting in the cold morning with 100% gasoline as compared to 10% ethanol blend.
EPA runs their mpg on all vehicles marketed in the U.S., using ONLY 100% gasoline.
Update of above post:

pure-gas.org has increased its sources of 100% gasoline(ethanol-free) from ~2000, many years ago, to its present listing of 7200+ sources. However, there are many restrictions, most large cities have no access to 100% gasoline & only about 4% of stations have 100% gasoline. The ethanol industry has a near stranglehold, such that 100% gasoline is NOT available to well over half of Americans & Canadians.

My 3 cars, using 100% gasoline, have their mpg increased to 8%, 7% & 5%. All cars run smoother, quieter & with an extra bit of low rpm torque. One car was rough & I was thinking of modifications to it. With the use of 100% gasoline, the roughness has gone away & its stumbling on hills has also stopped. A new 2013 Hyundai Elantra I have purchased, which lead footers were bad mouthing for poor mpg, uses only 100% gasoline. Elantra is averaging 39+mpg, with 15% city driving, & all tanks are used in a period of 3 to 7+days. Elantra is non-diesel, non-turbo, non-hybrid & with no expensive higher mpg models available.

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