Court to decide if race preference bans hurt diversity

Oct 13, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Reno Gazette-Journal

To hear Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette explain it, what could be wrong with a state constitutional amendment that "shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin?" Just about everything, says Mark Rosenbaum of the American Civil ... (more)

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1 - 20 of 93 Comments Last updated Oct 20, 2013
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Robert

Douglasville, GA

#1 Oct 13, 2013
When will people realize that the way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.

Affirmative action in college admissions is a solution to a problem that does not exist. If the problem was that we are not going to let those black people go to school with our white children then they would have something to stand on, but those days are long gone. You are not kept out of college because you are black and it has been that way for decades. What does keep you out is entrance exam scores.

A white kid gets kept out of the college of his choice because his scores were not high enough. He goes to a lesser school, proves himself for a year, reapplies and enters the school of his choice on own merit. Somewhere out there at the same time a black student who also did not get in because the scores were not high enough. But instead of improving himself the standards are simply exempted.

Aside from fairness the black student who is given a pass to get in without the grades has a less chance of success than if he had to do the same thing I had to do which is to better myself.

If you want to truly help the black student who can't get into a college without an affirmative action program, figure out why he or she could not make the cut and offer a program which helps them be successful, do this instead of giving them someone elses deserved shot at the school.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#2 Oct 13, 2013
It's up to the school to decide what criteria they want to use. If they want to consider race, that should be their choice.

“Come and get it! ”

Since: Jan 09

Traverse City

#3 Oct 13, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
It's up to the school to decide what criteria they want to use. If they want to consider race, that should be their choice.
Of course you say that, because affirmative action sh!ts on the white man. I'll bet you'd be singing a different tune if a school catered more towards white students, wanted to sing "Christmas" carols, have a constitution day, or do anything else that the left despises.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#4 Oct 13, 2013
Sneaky Pete wrote:
<quoted text>Of course you say that, because affirmative action sh!ts on the white man. I'll bet you'd be singing a different tune if a school catered more towards white students, wanted to sing "Christmas" carols, have a constitution day, or do anything else that the left despises.
The majority of schools ALREADY cater to white people. That's why affirmative action started in the first place.

Schools can sing whatever song they want.

The Constitution should be mandatory teaching in every public school.
Robert

Douglasville, GA

#5 Oct 13, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
It's up to the school to decide what criteria they want to use. If they want to consider race, that should be their choice.
I can't really be objective having been discriminated against by an affirmative action program. I ended up in a different city because I had to go find another job than the one I wanted. Using the force of government to mandate that the employer hire me regardless of exam scores was not an option for me. Prospective employees were rank ordered after objective testing then the quotas were applied. I did not like being passed over so they could hire someone with a different skin color. You don't forget these things, never. Which is why I say you can't fix discrimination with discrimination.
Too BAD

Las Vegas, NV

#7 Oct 13, 2013
Why should a black get something they don't deserve or even worked for over any other color.
That is bullshiit.
You friggin blacks need to work for it. Not fkg give it to you. No wonder Americans don't like blacks. You blacks need to start acting like Americans instead of your normal ngr attitude and you will get somewhere in life.
America needs to stop giving you everything and you need to start earning it. Quit being the lazy, useless POS you have become to be known as.
Your starting to look like the illegal alien population. Or is it the other way around?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#9 Oct 13, 2013
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't really be objective having been discriminated against by an affirmative action program. I ended up in a different city because I had to go find another job than the one I wanted. Using the force of government to mandate that the employer hire me regardless of exam scores was not an option for me. Prospective employees were rank ordered after objective testing then the quotas were applied. I did not like being passed over so they could hire someone with a different skin color. You don't forget these things, never. Which is why I say you can't fix discrimination with discrimination.
Quotas were declared unconstitutional in 1978, so if you have proof a quota system was used against you then you can sue for redress.

There is much more to getting a job or admission to a college than standardized test scores.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#10 Oct 13, 2013
Too BAD wrote:
Why should a black get something they don't deserve or even worked for over any other color.
That is bullshiit.
You friggin blacks need to work for it. Not fkg give it to you. No wonder Americans don't like blacks. You blacks need to start acting like Americans instead of your normal ngr attitude and you will get somewhere in life.
America needs to stop giving you everything and you need to start earning it. Quit being the lazy, useless POS you have become to be known as.
Your starting to look like the illegal alien population. Or is it the other way around?
Who said they didn't deserve it?

I'd suggest you quit being such a racist; maybe THAT is why you get "passed over"...

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#11 Oct 13, 2013
Erik B wrote:
Social scientist have long proven that welfare based affirmative action standards that preferred single black mothers over everybody else in being admitted to colleges was an abject failure because 97% of them just attended college to meet men to marry & support their numerous illegitimate kids.
Except of course that it's a complete fabrication on your part...
Robert

Douglasville, GA

#12 Oct 13, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Quotas were declared unconstitutional in 1978, so if you have proof a quota system was used against you then you can sue for redress.
There is much more to getting a job or admission to a college than standardized test scores.
So they call it a different name, so they add some other reasons as to why they are giving x number of jobs to blacks to achieve diversity in the workforce, it is still a quota by a different name.

You can't solve discrimination with discrimination. I am not responsible for my fathers sins.
seron one

Simpsonville, SC

#14 Oct 14, 2013
Too BAD wrote:
Why should a black get something they don't deserve or even worked for over any other color.
That is bullshiit.
You friggin blacks need to work for it. Not fkg give it to you. No wonder Americans don't like blacks. You blacks need to start acting like Americans instead of your normal ngr attitude and you will get somewhere in life.
America needs to stop giving you everything and you need to start earning it. Quit being the lazy, useless POS you have become to be known as.
Your starting to look like the illegal alien population. Or is it the other way around?
I don't care for your response and language. black people today try just as hard as anyone else and if all you racists out there don't stop hating them- the tables will turn someday, and all imposing racist remarks of any kind will be procecuted as a crime.
seron one

Simpsonville, SC

#15 Oct 14, 2013
I can't really believe that at this day and time administrators are looking at skin color when reading college apps. If they are, they don't deserve the jobs they've been given.

“Come and get it! ”

Since: Jan 09

Traverse City

#16 Oct 14, 2013
seron one wrote:
I can't really believe that at this day and time administrators are looking at skin color when reading college apps. If they are, they don't deserve the jobs they've been given.
Of course they are. Most schools are run by leftists, and as we all know, lefties make an issue out of skin color wherever possible.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#17 Oct 14, 2013
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
So they call it a different name, so they add some other reasons as to why they are giving x number of jobs to blacks to achieve diversity in the workforce, it is still a quota by a different name.
You can't solve discrimination with discrimination. I am not responsible for my fathers sins.
No, it's not a quota, otherwise it would be unconstitutional.

Why doesn't a school or business have the right to have a diverse workforce or student body if they so desire?

What happened to freedom of association?

Should we go back to forcing businesses to hire only straight white christian men and schools to only admit straight white christian men?

If I have a business which services a large Hispanic or Asian community, I'd probably want a few employees who speak Spanish or Mandarin or Korean or are familiar with the local culture. How is a white guy who only speaks English and has never been out of his all white neighborhood going to meet my needs as an employer?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#18 Oct 14, 2013
Obama killed America wrote:
<quoted text> (D)George Wallace tried to make his schools pick by race criteria...how'd that work out?
Where did I say schools should be forced to pick by race criteria?

Oh that's right, I didn't.

Schools should be able to use diversity of their student body in their considerations IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#19 Oct 14, 2013
seron one wrote:
I can't really believe that at this day and time administrators are looking at skin color when reading college apps. If they are, they don't deserve the jobs they've been given.
The good schools look at EVERYTHING- test scores, hobbies, community service, race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, talents, work history, etc, etc, etc, to ensure they have a diverse student body which contributes to a more well-rounded education.

They no longer just turn out straight white christian male urban robots.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#20 Oct 14, 2013
Sneaky Pete wrote:
<quoted text>Of course they are. Most schools are run by leftists, and as we all know, lefties make an issue out of skin color wherever possible.
Right, because the racist teagagger conservative whites never made an issue out of skin color......
Robert

Douglasville, GA

#21 Oct 14, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's not a quota, otherwise it would be unconstitutional.
Why doesn't a school or business have the right to have a diverse workforce or student body if they so desire?
What happened to freedom of association?
Should we go back to forcing businesses to hire only straight white christian men and schools to only admit straight white christian men?
If I have a business which services a large Hispanic or Asian community, I'd probably want a few employees who speak Spanish or Mandarin or Korean or are familiar with the local culture. How is a white guy who only speaks English and has never been out of his all white neighborhood going to meet my needs as an employer?
It is not a quota because you don't call it one, quotas are legal in the United States to correct some instances of past discrimination when ordered by the court or under a consent agreement.

Affirmative action claims not to be a quota system and works by setting flexible goals -- which are based on the percentage of qualified minorities and women in the region. It is just a quota under a different name and without specific numbers. There should not even be a block for race on the applications.

If you are denied a job because someone is setting flexible hiring goals to meet racial hiring targets or your are denied a job because someone is meeting a racial quota, from your stand point there is no difference at all. All you know is some black person whom you outscored in fair testing was elevated from a position behind you on the list to be given the job you earned fair and square.

Even in the case of court ordered quotas to make up for past patterns of blatant discrimination that had nothing to do with me, yet I have to pay the price. All that does is color my attitudes about race, give someone else an undeserved advantage to make up for something that was done to yet a third person.

You can't make up for past discrimination by discriminating against me, I was the the person responsible for the previous blatant discrimination and the person you gave my job to was not the victim of it either. The only way to deal with discrimination is stop it.

“Come and get it! ”

Since: Jan 09

Traverse City

#22 Oct 14, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, because the racist teagagger conservative whites never made an issue out of skin color......
This coming from a democrat? A member of the biggest racist party out there? Boy, you people have really gotten delusional.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#23 Oct 14, 2013
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not a quota because you don't call it one, quotas are legal in the United States to correct some instances of past discrimination when ordered by the court or under a consent agreement.
Affirmative action claims not to be a quota system and works by setting flexible goals -- which are based on the percentage of qualified minorities and women in the region. It is just a quota under a different name and without specific numbers. There should not even be a block for race on the applications.
If you are denied a job because someone is setting flexible hiring goals to meet racial hiring targets or your are denied a job because someone is meeting a racial quota, from your stand point there is no difference at all. All you know is some black person whom you outscored in fair testing was elevated from a position behind you on the list to be given the job you earned fair and square.
Even in the case of court ordered quotas to make up for past patterns of blatant discrimination that had nothing to do with me, yet I have to pay the price. All that does is color my attitudes about race, give someone else an undeserved advantage to make up for something that was done to yet a third person.
You can't make up for past discrimination by discriminating against me, I was the the person responsible for the previous blatant discrimination and the person you gave my job to was not the victim of it either. The only way to deal with discrimination is stop it.
A "quota without specific numbers"?

The very definition of a quota is a specific number or percentage or amount.

You can't have a "quota without specific numbers".

Again, you're assuming a standardized test score is the only qualification; it seldom is. If you didn't get the job, then you obviously didn't earn it.

So people should be hired by drawing a name out of a hat? EVERY single job out their involves an employer discriminating in favor of one person over all others.

You feel that discrimination is unjust because you WANT to feel that way based on your existing biases.

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