5 things to know about Mich. right-to-work bills

Dec 11, 2012 Full story: Daily Journal 62

It isn't about a right to work but rather a right for workers to choose whether they want to join a union or pay fees similar to union dues.

Full Story
Some Random Dude

Santa Cruz, CA

#49 Dec 12, 2012
Brian wrote:
HenryClay Frick knew how to deal with unions. He created jobs including my middle class jobs for bookeepers, accountants,layes foremen and the like.
Lets not forget. There are plenty willing to immigrate here for these jobs and would be glad to get at minimum wage or below.
Its time to quit palyg games with these thugs once and for all
Henry,,,we need you back
I'll tell you what. If you think minimum wage is acceptable, march into your boss's office tomorrow morning and tell him or her that you want to start being paid minimum wage. Like Gandhi said... "Be the change you wish to see".
Brian

Edwardsville, IL

#50 Dec 12, 2012
Some Random Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll tell you what. If you think minimum wage is acceptable, march into your boss's office tomorrow morning and tell him or her that you want to start being paid minimum wage. Like Gandhi said... "Be the change you wish to see".
Im self employed and have in fact been throught times of earing under minimum wage
So back to your rock pile

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#51 Dec 12, 2012
Some Random Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Mitsubishi is a Japanese company right? Google Japanese corporate compensation practices.
Don't need to Google it. I spent 20 years in it.
Some Random Dude

Santa Cruz, CA

#52 Dec 13, 2012
Brian wrote:
<quoted text>Im self employed and have in fact been throught times of earing under minimum wage
So back to your rock pile
I'd love to hear your stories about working for "under minimum wage". I somehow doubt there's any truth to your claim... unless you were a server making tips; at which point that WOULDN'T be minimum wage. Anyway... please elaborate. This should be interesting.
Some Random Dude

Santa Cruz, CA

#53 Dec 13, 2012
Bama Yankee wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't need to Google it. I spent 20 years in it.
Great. Then refer to post #48.
oh yeah

Virginia Beach, VA

#54 Dec 13, 2012
Bama Yankee wrote:
<quoted text>
Hyundai, in Alabama, provides their production employees with a wage & benefit package that equates to $49 an hour.
But you're not allowed to drink and smoke spliffs on your lunch break there!

Hence the need for Unions........
unionssuk

Granger, IN

#55 Dec 13, 2012
Makes sense wrote:
BEWARE AMERICA, Governor Snyder campaigned as a "moderate Republican". Now he is showing his true colors.
The people of the State of Michigan were locked out of the Capitol in Lansing while the Republicans pushed through their radical agenda during a lame duck session with NO DEBATE. Right TO WORK FOR LESS is only ONE of their radical new laws.
Governor Snyder, backed by out-of-State ALEC forces, has declared war on the people of the State of Michigan.
A few Republicans even voted against the new laws, but there are almost NO moderate Republicans anymore. They, including the governor, are under constant threat by the the radicals to be dethroned in primaries.
There is ONLY one solution: a GENERAL STRIKE.
All members of ALL unions need to strike in protest of the dictatorial way that these new laws were passed.
The laws are anti-Middle Class, anti-women, anti-Public Education, anti-safety, and anti-environment, just like in the third world countries where the Republicans like to do business.
Please spread the word that we need a GENERAL STRIKE. There hasn't be one in the US since the 1940's. One day squawking at the Capitol will accomplish NOTHING. It will fall on dead ears. A GENERAL STRIKE will force our elected officials to listen.
Wake up, AMERICA. As goes Michigan, so goes the country. The BILLIONAIRES have declared WAR on the MIDDLE CLASS and the BILLIONAIRES are WINNING.
They shoved this crap through because they know they wouldn't succeed doing so in January.
This is the greatest thing that has happened in decades! Finally, these goons and mobsters are NOT going to be able to force workers to join the union. Now, we will have to figure out a way to prevent this scum from intimidating those who don't want to pay. Finally, the average person has challenged this violent gang of hoodlums and they won!

Speaking of anti-women....just look what they did when they stormed the capital in Michigan. They tried to suffocate the women inside the tent by cutting it down and trampling on them. These union thugs should have been shot on the spot for attempting to murder innocent bystanders.

Public education is so shtty BECAUSE of unions. You may be effective at brainwashing the stupid but those who have seen what the unions do, know the truth.
unionssuk

Granger, IN

#56 Dec 13, 2012
Some Random Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd love to hear your stories about working for "under minimum wage". I somehow doubt there's any truth to your claim... unless you were a server making tips; at which point that WOULDN'T be minimum wage. Anyway... please elaborate. This should be interesting.
So obvious you wouldn't know the first thing about owning and operating a business. More often than not, those who start out may not even earn a paycheck the first year, much less minimum wage. Depending on the economy, many business owners can barely make ends meet, much less minimum wage. You are completely clueless.
unionssuk

Granger, IN

#57 Dec 13, 2012
Some Random Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
If you look at union versus non-union production in ALL industries, non-union shops pay less and offer less benefits. If that weren't true, there would BE no anti-union sentiments because there would be no unions. Worker aren't going to pay union dues for nothing.
I have never seen a reason to hire a union person over someone who isn't part of the union besides the union worker being lazier and greedier.

In the case of teachers, the better teachers usually do not belong to unions.
Some Random Dude

Santa Cruz, CA

#58 Dec 13, 2012
unionssuk wrote:
<quoted text> So obvious you wouldn't know the first thing about owning and operating a business. More often than not, those who start out may not even earn a paycheck the first year, much less minimum wage. Depending on the economy, many business owners can barely make ends meet, much less minimum wage. You are completely clueless.
I don't know who you think you are dealing with; but you are making some rather tall assumptions about what I do or do not know. I'm well aware of how starting one's own business works. When you start your own business, you assume certain risks in hopes that the payoff will be better in the end (which it may or may not work out that way) and you will have more direct control of your fate. When you work for someone for wages, you are forgoing the risk and the better earning potential in lieu of a more stable income in an established environment. It is a choice.
Some Random Dude

Santa Cruz, CA

#59 Dec 13, 2012
unionssuk wrote:
<quoted text>I have never seen a reason to hire a union person over someone who isn't part of the union besides the union worker being lazier and greedier.
In the case of teachers, the better teachers usually do not belong to unions.
Typical right wing anti-union propaganda. Better tighten up that tin-foil hat... it's slightly askew.
joey

Maringouin, LA

#60 Dec 13, 2012
Some Random Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
That's exactly right. When you peel away all the rhetoric, this bill will equal more low pay/poor benefit jobs for Americans. The factories in Michigan were one of the last bastions of middle class labor in America. It was one of few jobs left where you could work with your hands and can make a decent living. We will be just another third world shithole by the time my niece and nephews grow up. I'm so glad I never had children. I would feel like a piece of shit for bringing children into this world.
the uaw in mich.needed to be bailed out,not the auto workers you idiot!the overpaid union workers caused this!i do agree and am glad that you never had a child with your no brain DNA!YOU VOTED ODUMMY SO SUCK IT UP!!
Brian

Edwardsville, IL

#61 Dec 13, 2012
Some Random Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I'd love to hear your stories about working for "under minimum wage". I somehow doubt there's any truth to your claim... unless you were a server making tips; at which point that WOULDN'T be minimum wage. Anyway... please elaborate. This should be interesting.
Self employed is not equilivent to a server making tips
Of course yo would not understand these things.
Hey speaking of understanding things I hear I can move to Canada for a few years and not pay taxes. Then off to Costa Rica when Canadas deal wears out
You see...you moochers have finally outworn your welcome
By the way I have health care that I paid for and always will
Be prepared for the visiting doctor at the feed lot you will be boardered at
HAHHAHHAA

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#62 Dec 13, 2012
Some Random Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Great. Then refer to post #48.
How about you tell me your personal experiences in the work force.

I've worked in 2 John Deere plants, 2 Montgomery Elevator plants, International Harvester, and American Air Filter as a union member.

I worked for Adressograph-Mulitgraph, Eagle Signal, Roanoke Dairies, Jacksonville Beach Bus Transport, W.T. Grant, Sears, 2 Mitsubishi plants in Japan and the 1 in Illinois as non union.(As an associate before the union was organized, and as management.)

I suspect I was a dues paying, book carrying union member long before you were born.(When I joined, we had a book and got monthly dues stamps. You know about those?) I think I have a grip on the subject based on something other than propaganda and brainwashing.

Do I think unions were a great benefit to this country? Of course. Paid holidays, 40 hour work week, overtime, even health insurance plans were all negotiated by unions and that carried over to non union business.

I've stood picket duty during a dozen strikes. I spent 19 weeks on a lock out. Got news for you. A six month strike over 16 an hour never makes up the lost wages.

I've seen companies shutter the plant and move jobs out of state because the union wouldn't budge.

The only reason the Mitsubishi plant in Illinois is still operating, which by the way, it is doing so at a loss, is because the local did make concessions, in both pay and benefits. They had sense enough to realize that cutting their pay from $26 an hour to $20, and bumping their copays from $2 to $15 was a hell of a lot better than unemployment and no benefits.

I've also worked in union shops that paid less than many of the non union places in the same area. Why? Great job, and job security.

Until you've been there, done that, you're just flapping your gums in the wind, not a clue as to what you are talking about.
zipp

Chicago, IL

#63 Dec 13, 2012
Dismantling the unions results in 10-15,000 less income for middle class families, whether they are union or not. Fact!

Improving Michigan economy? Whatever!
zipp

Chicago, IL

#64 Dec 13, 2012
Oh, and by the way, that's 10-15,000 per year all you genius economists who say otherwise. Looks like the GOP is running rough shot over Michigan and shoving a big red, white, and blue pole up your wazoos.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#65 Dec 13, 2012
zipp wrote:
Oh, and by the way, that's 10-15,000 per year all you genius economists who say otherwise. Looks like the GOP is running rough shot over Michigan and shoving a big red, white, and blue pole up your wazoos.
Rough shot?

Don't you mean "rough shod?"
Brian

Edwardsville, IL

#66 Dec 14, 2012
I get so sick of this middle class arugument. Middle class is a way of life not money. I know plenty that live quite well in middle class surroundings not because of their income but rather how they spend their income.
Having the money to buy expensive toys, the usual UAW fishing cabin etc while using foul language and looking like an oaf are not middle class.
Its a lifestyle...not money that makes a classy person...something these dumbos just dont get because, quite frankly, they are just thugs
Some Random Dude

Santa Cruz, CA

#67 Dec 14, 2012
Bama Yankee wrote:
<quoted text>
How about you tell me your personal experiences in the work force.
I've worked in 2 John Deere plants, 2 Montgomery Elevator plants, International Harvester, and American Air Filter as a union member.
I worked for Adressograph-Mulitgraph, Eagle Signal, Roanoke Dairies, Jacksonville Beach Bus Transport, W.T. Grant, Sears, 2 Mitsubishi plants in Japan and the 1 in Illinois as non union.(As an associate before the union was organized, and as management.)
I suspect I was a dues paying, book carrying union member long before you were born.(When I joined, we had a book and got monthly dues stamps. You know about those?) I think I have a grip on the subject based on something other than propaganda and brainwashing.
Do I think unions were a great benefit to this country? Of course. Paid holidays, 40 hour work week, overtime, even health insurance plans were all negotiated by unions and that carried over to non union business.
I've stood picket duty during a dozen strikes. I spent 19 weeks on a lock out. Got news for you. A six month strike over 16 an hour never makes up the lost wages.
I've seen companies shutter the plant and move jobs out of state because the union wouldn't budge.
The only reason the Mitsubishi plant in Illinois is still operating, which by the way, it is doing so at a loss, is because the local did make concessions, in both pay and benefits. They had sense enough to realize that cutting their pay from $26 an hour to $20, and bumping their copays from $2 to $15 was a hell of a lot better than unemployment and no benefits.
I've also worked in union shops that paid less than many of the non union places in the same area. Why? Great job, and job security.
Until you've been there, done that, you're just flapping your gums in the wind, not a clue as to what you are talking about.
Great... you have some real personal experience. It doesn't change the facts though. If Unions didn't offer a better deal for labor, there wouldn't be unions at all. If unions took smaller compensation packages, management (and those who worship at the c*cks of management) wouldn't have a complaint about them. You can either be on labor's side in this argument or management's. You've made your choice and that is clear.
Some Random Dude

Santa Cruz, CA

#68 Dec 14, 2012
Brian wrote:
I get so sick of this middle class arugument. Middle class is a way of life not money. I know plenty that live quite well in middle class surroundings not because of their income but rather how they spend their income.
Having the money to buy expensive toys, the usual UAW fishing cabin etc while using foul language and looking like an oaf are not middle class.
Its a lifestyle...not money that makes a classy person...something these dumbos just dont get because, quite frankly, they are just thugs
LOL! Apparently, you don't know about context. "Class" in reference to social grace, and "class" in reference to economic position are two entirely different things. How does someone "live quite well in middle class surroundings" if they don't have the income to do so? Do they use creative financing, like a lot of people were doing just prior to the '08 crash? Do they stay with a family member who actually DOES have the income for a middle class lifestyle? I'm curious. PS: "Middle Class" doesn't mean expensive toys or a vacation cabin. I shouldn't have to explain this to you. I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

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