Supreme Court Will Review DOMA, Prop 8 Challenges

There are 20 comments on the Dec 20, 2012, EDGE story titled Supreme Court Will Review DOMA, Prop 8 Challenges. In it, EDGE reports that:

On December 7, marriage equality proponents heard the news they'd been waiting to hear: that the Supreme Court will review whether the Defense of Marriage Act and California's Proposition 8 violate the Equal Protection clause of the Constitution.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EDGE.

Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#84 Dec 28, 2012
Standard of review is important but it is not everything, unless of course your substantive positions are weak - which in your case, they are.

The polls I consider reliable (and which were proven so after tha last election) show that an increasing majority of Americans at least don't care whether gays get married or not and see no valid reason why gay marriage should remain illegal.

In all your dissembling and quibbling on this topic, I have yet to see you advance a valid, logical reason why gays should not be permitted to marry. You have none. You make meek and unconvincing arguments from precedent, but you cannot come up with a single good reason why gay marriage should not be permitted.

Also, I'm pretty sure that no matter what happens at the SCOTUS, it's not going to put my 15 year heterosexual marriage in "peril."

Moreover, even if the SCOTUS upholds gay marriage bans, gay marriage will still eventually be a nationwide reality. It will just take longer, and for no other reason than the one, single motivating reason behind anyone opposing it.

Bigotry. You can dress it up all you like and justify it with any sort of legal fiction you like, but your underlying and original reason for even posting on this topic is nothing more than plain bigotry.

The American public may be slow on the uptake sometimes, but people like you are now in the minority, and you aren't ever going to be in the majority again in the forseeable future.

So make your time, for great justice, because pretty soon all your base are belong to "you guys."
Jane Dough

Montpelier, VT

#85 Dec 28, 2012
Strel wrote:
show that an increasing majority of Americans ."
love the words, and "increasing majority"...
do you have a MAJORITY, well no...

Do a MAJORITY of states ban your marriages?

Yes. Were the votes by an overwhelming MAJORITY, YES!

deceit via word games, what people use when their substantive arguments are weak...
Strel wrote:
I have yet to see you advance a valid, logical reason why gays should not be permitted to marry. You have none. You make meek and unconvincing arguments from precedent, but you cannot come up with a single good reason why gay marriage should not be permitted.
encouragement of both a mom and dad, and procreation...you can ignore its mention in EVERY SCOTUS marriage case, but I doubt the scotus will...
Strel wrote:
Also, I'm pretty sure that no matter what happens at the SCOTUS, it's not going to put my 15 year heterosexual marriage in "peril."
"
your argument is in peril...
Strel wrote:
The American public may be slow on the uptake sometimes, but people like you are now in the minority, "
see how you used those words games to claim you are in the majority?
smoke and mirrors strel, maybe its enough in FL but not in the scotus!

Its completely rational to treat different relationships differently...
we only guarantee equal protection (not equal rights like your side's word games imply) and its only for those similarly situated...
and gays are not...

if you think the scotus is going to find that all opposition to gay marriage is bigotry, you are purely delusional!
I guess Obama got over his bigotry?oh wait, he said the states should decide...that bigot!

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#86 Dec 28, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
immutable...
can you be gay and no one know it?
a bit different than being black huh?
have you had successful votes?
politically "powerless", then?
at least you admit that a QUAZI suspect class is not the same as a suspect class...
Same-sex couple. That's pretty hard to hide.

Women have had many more successful votes on their rights, and hold many more positions of power than gays.

Like I said, did you bother to read the decision from the 2nd circuit? You do realize it isn't required to meet ALL the standards 100% to obtain suspect classification, just as with gender.

And just like gender, same-sex couples are a quasi-suspect class, which means heightened scrutiny applies to any laws restricting their rights. It's the lynchpin to overturning remaining state bans.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#87 Dec 28, 2012
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
They aren't equivalent. Two separate issues. Colin Powell's statement was accurate and had nothing to do with gay marriage.
According to Rep Lewis (an ACTUAL black civil rights leader) they ARE equivalent. I'll accpet his opinion.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#88 Dec 28, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
racial civil rights is factually different and legally different, and the standard of review is everything...
you guys = gay marriage supporters...
and though your polls like to pretend, you are far from a majority...
gay marriage is not a fundamental right, and gays are not a suspect class...ignore these facts at your peril...
Correct, marriage is a fundamenal right, and the courts are ruling it is unconstitutional to deny that fundamental right to same-sex couples.

DOMA has failed under rational basis as well as heightened scrutiny. The standard of review will be whatever the SCOTUS wants to use to overturn DOMA. If they want to use rational basis, then they'll find a way to overturn it with that. If they want to use heightened scrutiny, then they'll find a way to voerturn it with that.

Either way DOMA is gone.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#89 Dec 28, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
love the words, and "increasing majority"...
do you have a MAJORITY, well no...
Do a MAJORITY of states ban your marriages?
Yes. Were the votes by an overwhelming MAJORITY, YES!
deceit via word games, what people use when their substantive arguments are weak...
<quoted text>
encouragement of both a mom and dad, and procreation...you can ignore its mention in EVERY SCOTUS marriage case, but I doubt the scotus will...
<quoted text>
your argument is in peril...
<quoted text>
see how you used those words games to claim you are in the majority?
smoke and mirrors strel, maybe its enough in FL but not in the scotus!
Its completely rational to treat different relationships differently...
we only guarantee equal protection (not equal rights like your side's word games imply) and its only for those similarly situated...
and gays are not...
if you think the scotus is going to find that all opposition to gay marriage is bigotry, you are purely delusional!
I guess Obama got over his bigotry?oh wait, he said the states should decide...that bigot!
Were the majority of those votes more than a few years ago?

Why yes they were.

Has the country changed significantly on this issue in the intervening years?

Why yes it has.

Which side won the 4 most recent votes?

Oh that's right, it would be the side which according to you doesn't have majority support, yet won all 4 votes......

How does banning same-sex couple from marrying do anything to encourgage procreation & moms & dads? The only way that would encourage procreation between opposite-sex couples would be if you also banned all single parents and banned married people with kids from divorcing.

Banning same-sex couples from marrying does NOTHING to encourage opposite-sex reproduction and parenting.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#90 Dec 28, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Rep Lewis (an ACTUAL black civil rights leader) they ARE equivalent. I'll accpet his opinion.
You should, congress is full of geniuses. They currently have an 18% approval rating.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#91 Dec 28, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Women have had many more successful votes on their rights, and hold many more positions of power than gays.
Simple arithmetic.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#92 Dec 28, 2012
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple arithmetic.
Which proves gays & lesbians are a powerless minority deserving of suspect classification by the courts.

Thanks for proving my point.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#93 Dec 30, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Which proves gays & lesbians are a powerless minority deserving of suspect classification by the courts.
Thanks for proving my point.
Powerless? You have to be kidding. While I think gay relationships are suspect, you deserve no such classification. Bizarre behavior shouldn't be in any legal class unless it's harmful to mainstream America.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#94 Dec 30, 2012
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Powerless? You have to be kidding. While I think gay relationships are suspect, you deserve no such classification. Bizarre behavior shouldn't be in any legal class unless it's harmful to mainstream America.
The courts disagree (no big shocker there).....
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#95 Dec 31, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
The courts disagree (no big shocker there).....
Which courts? Each state has a legislature, the legislature is the general court of that state. 31 of these general courts have instituted constitutional bans on gay marriage. That's 62% that don't agree (no big shocker there)

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#96 Dec 31, 2012
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Which courts? Each state has a legislature, the legislature is the general court of that state. 31 of these general courts have instituted constitutional bans on gay marriage. That's 62% that don't agree (no big shocker there)
The 2nd circuit court of appeals has ruled same-sex couples are a quasi-suspect class requiring heightened scrutiny of any laws which affect them. In addition, the 1st & 9th circuit courts have ruled DOMA is unconstitutional as well.

State legislatures are NOT courts; every state has their own judiciary separate from their legislature.

Yes, 30 states (not 31) have constitutional bans on same-sex couples marrying, but those will be overturned over the next decade either by the people or the courts.

As we saw with the 2012 elections, it's only a matter of time.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#97 Dec 31, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
State legislatures are NOT courts
They call themselves courts. Should I believe you or should I believe them?

The legislature in Massachusetts calls itself:
The 187th GENERAL COURT of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
http://www.malegislature.gov/
Jane Dough

Montpelier, VT

#98 Dec 31, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Were the majority of those votes more than a few years ago?
Why yes they were.
.
since you don't even have a majority yet, this is further creative writing that breaks into the total BS area...

currently a majority of the people, states, and voters oppose you...
twist it any way you want as I can see you do...
Jane Dough

Montpelier, VT

#99 Dec 31, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
The 2nd circuit court of appeals has ruled same-sex couples are a quasi-suspect class requiring heightened scrutiny of any laws which affect them. In addition, the 1st & 9th circuit courts have ruled DOMA is unconstitutional as well.
You may have hit on why the scotus took the 2nd circuit case and not the others where they found the opposite...

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#100 Dec 31, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
since you don't even have a majority yet, this is further creative writing that breaks into the total BS area...
currently a majority of the people, states, and voters oppose you...
twist it any way you want as I can see you do...
Every poll indicates otherwise, as did the 4 most recent votes on the issue.

The country is changing whether you see it or not is really irrelevant. We'll just keep racking up the wins while you remain in denial. Up next- Illinois, Rhode Island, & Delaware.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#101 Dec 31, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
You may have hit on why the scotus took the 2nd circuit case and not the others where they found the opposite...
Actually it was probably because Justice Kagan indicated she would likely have recused herself from either of the 1st circuit cases, which could have resulted in a tie, so that left them with only the 2nd circuit case.

I'm actually glad they took this case, because I do want them to address the standard of review issue.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#102 Jan 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Powerless? You have to be kidding. While I think gay relationships are suspect, you deserve no such classification. Bizarre behavior shouldn't be in any legal class unless it's harmful to mainstream America.
..and here comes the aforementioned bigotry.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#103 Jan 3, 2013
Gradual cultural extinction must be painful, because our two resident homophobic bigots sure are squealing more lately.

If the House Republicans continue to act like a bunch of petulant assholes, which I am sure they will, they will lost the midterm elections and the slide of cultural, fundamentalist Right will accelerate even further.

It's going to be fun to watch.

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