Louisiana Lawmakers Object To Funding Islamic School Under New Voucher Program

Aug 23, 2012 Full story: www.huffingtonpost.com 26

Sectarian feuds reignited in Louisiana last week when lawmakers debated whether to provide federal funding for Muslim and Christian schools under a new education bill, according to Think Progress.

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“Reason's Greetings!”

Since: Feb 11

Pale Blue Dot

#1 Aug 23, 2012
The best solution is to repeal the Minimim Foundations Program, and stop all federal taxpayers' money contributions to any private, religiously affiliated schools.

This is a great example of how religion mixed with government can only lead to divisiveness.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#2 Aug 23, 2012
I agree religion is extremely divisive and since such divisions are based on acts of faith they are less amenable to reason. Any criticism is framed as 'an attack on my faith',(as if faith is a good thing).

Quote, "It'll be the Church of Scientology next year," Democratic state Rep. Sam Jones told AP.
Unquote
That and idiocies like Creationism/ID are the main dangers.

Arguably, the voucher system seems to be working quite well in Indiana? I favored a plan like that for the UK, but it won't happen here.

Quote: school prayer would "let people know there is a God." Unquote

It is the extent of such superstitions that may cause religion to encroach on schools with or without vouchers. Schools should be non-denominational and secular. It makes no sense to segregate children according to their parent's religions,(or lack thereof). In fact, it can be divisive and even potentially dangerous.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#3 Aug 23, 2012
I still find it startling that state legislatures fail to understand the implications of the First Amendment. The intent of the Louisiana legislature is clearly to fund Christian-run schools exclusively, which is just as clearly unconstitutional, especially since they passed this bill only after the Muslim school in question withdrew its application, yet they fund a Christian school that is structured so as to guarantee even lower academic standards than the worst of public schools.

But the Muslim school could reapply at any time, as could any other religion-run school. When that happens, the agency charged with administering the program is almost certain to be pressured to refuse the request. If that happens, SCOTUS is quite certain to overturn this new law.

Wil the legislatures and citizens be outraged when that happens? You betcha.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#4 Aug 24, 2012
NightSerf wrote:
I still find it startling that state legislatures fail to understand the implications of the First Amendment.
You don't really think that they didn't understand that the new law was illegal and anti-American, do you? They know, and they just don't care.

This is a fine example of what I mean when compare the church to kudzu. It's invasive, always looking for a crack in the wall to use to invade the government, and if given the chance, would overgrow it.

Who among us really believes that the church would respect the Constitution if they had a chance to trample it? Who thinks that given the opportunity to take control of the American government and convert it into a Christian theocracy, the church would decline out of respect for American unbelievers and American law and tradition?

I mentioned witch burning to a American Christian living here in Mexico with us last year, and he bristled at the mention. "Nobody's done that in centuries," he chided me.

"You mean in North America, right? Only because secularists decided that that form of worship of Christ was grossly immoral and should be declared criminal. Now you want to pretend to be civilized. Why should I believe that your church has outgrown the urge to kill and torture? But I am not aware of your people EVER having the power to burn people and not using it. As far as I know, you could smell witches burning on the last day that it was legal to do so. And I have zero doubt that if they decriminalized burning witches starting January 1st, that you'd hear and smell them again that day. Name me a single time or place ever that your church could torture and murder people, and said,'No. That would be wrong. We will not do that.'"

I can do that safely only because of my circumstances as an expatriate. In America, I would fear retaliation. His eyes glazed over with the love of Christ, and he called me everything but fellow American, and he threatened me with hell, confirming my suspicion that he believed that torture was a just punishment for not worshiping his god. I felt that he would have liked to have turned me over to an Inquisition right there himself if he could, or, failing that, at least key my car and kill my dogs.

Am I misjudging and unfairly maligning this church here? Let me reword that: who thinks that the Christians have outgrown all of that brutality and hatred, and would decline to torture if they got another chance to do so?

Here they are throwing acid in the faces of children accused of witchcraft in Africa: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/afri...

Who is surprised? Shocked, offended, repulsed and nauseated, yes. But surprised?

So why should we be surprised that they would knowingly and deliberately violate the spirit and the law of the land with this legislation, and divert the dollars of unbelievers to the task of raising more Christians to persecute them?

This man revealed too much this day:

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good ... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." - Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue. 1993

Am I exaggerating here? I don't think so. I think that calling that vile church kudzu was being charitable.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5 Aug 24, 2012
As predicted by many of us atheists. Funny, that.

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#6 Aug 24, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
As predicted by many of us atheists. Funny, that.
The Christian religion is as bad as the Islamic one. We need to stop funding religious schools period.

Since: Jan 12

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

#7 Aug 24, 2012
emperorjohn wrote:
The Christian religion is as bad as the Islamic one. We need to stop funding religious schools period.
Indeed all religion needs to go. Christianity and Islam are both two sides of the same coin.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#8 Aug 24, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't really think that they didn't understand that the new law was illegal and anti-American, do you? They know, and they just don't care.
This is a fine example of what I mean when compare the church to kudzu. It's invasive, always looking for a crack in the wall to use to invade the government, and if given the chance, would overgrow it.
Who among us really believes that the church would respect the Constitution if they had a chance to trample it? Who thinks that given the opportunity to take control of the American government and convert it into a Christian theocracy, the church would decline out of respect for American unbelievers and American law and tradition?
I mentioned witch burning to a American Christian living here in Mexico with us last year, and he bristled at the mention. "Nobody's done that in centuries," he chided me.
"You mean in North America, right? Only because secularists decided that that form of worship of Christ was grossly immoral and should be declared criminal. Now you want to pretend to be civilized. Why should I believe that your church has outgrown the urge to kill and torture? But I am not aware of your people EVER having the power to burn people and not using it. As far as I know, you could smell witches burning on the last day that it was legal to do so. And I have zero doubt that if they decriminalized burning witches starting January 1st, that you'd hear and smell them again that day. Name me a single time or place ever that your church could torture and murder people, and said,'No. That would be wrong. We will not do that.'"
I can do that safely only because of my circumstances as an expatriate. In America, I would fear retaliation. His eyes glazed over with the love of Christ, and he called me everything but fellow American, and he threatened me with hell, confirming my suspicion that he believed that torture was a just punishment for not worshiping his god. I felt that he would have liked to have turned me over to an Inquisition right there himself if he could, or, failing that, at least key my car and kill my dogs.
Am I misjudging and unfairly maligning this church here? Let me reword that: who thinks that the Christians have outgrown all of that brutality and hatred, and would decline to torture if they got another chance to do so?
Here they are throwing acid in the faces of children accused of witchcraft in Africa: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/afri...
Who is surprised? Shocked, offended, repulsed and nauseated, yes. But surprised?
So why should we be surprised that they would knowingly and deliberately violate the spirit and the law of the land with this legislation, and divert the dollars of unbelievers to the task of raising more Christians to persecute them?
This man revealed too much this day:
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good ... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." - Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue. 1993
Am I exaggerating here? I don't think so. I think that calling that vile church kudzu was being charitable.
I honestly don't know. Don't have a clue. I'd like to think that societal development has a kind of forward momentum that makes reverting to barbarism increasingly more difficult and less probable, and I think that may be true of some of the older sects, even the RCC. But then I think about the backwater churches and their adherents that I've run across throughout the South combined with the fact that as those older churches face declining memberships, the fundamentalist sects that harbor the more dangerous loonies are growing almost as fast as the more reasonable sects' memberships are hemorrhaging, and I have to pause...
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#9 Aug 24, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't really think that they didn't understand that the new law was illegal and anti-American, do you? They know, and they just don't care.
This is a fine example of what I mean when compare the church to kudzu. It's invasive, always looking for a crack in the wall to use to invade the government, and if given the chance, would overgrow it.
Who among us really believes that the church would respect the Constitution if they had a chance to trample it? Who thinks that given the opportunity to take control of the American government and convert it into a Christian theocracy, the church would decline out of respect for American unbelievers and American law and tradition?
I mentioned witch burning to a American Christian living here in Mexico with us last year, and he bristled at the mention. "Nobody's done that in centuries," he chided me.
"You mean in North America, right? Only because secularists decided that that form of worship of Christ was grossly immoral and should be declared criminal. Now you want to pretend to be civilized. Why should I believe that your church has outgrown the urge to kill and torture? But I am not aware of your people EVER having the power to burn people and not using it. As far as I know, you could smell witches burning on the last day that it was legal to do so. And I have zero doubt that if they decriminalized burning witches starting January 1st, that you'd hear and smell them again that day. Name me a single time or place ever that your church could torture and murder people, and said,'No. That would be wrong. We will not do that.'"
I can do that safely only because of my circumstances as an expatriate. In America, I would fear retaliation. His eyes glazed over with the love of Christ, and he called me everything but fellow American, and he threatened me with hell, confirming my suspicion that he believed that torture was a just punishment for not worshiping his god. I felt that he would have liked to have turned me over to an Inquisition right there himself if he could, or, failing that, at least key my car and kill my dogs.
Am I misjudging and unfairly maligning this church here? Let me reword that: who thinks that the Christians have outgrown all of that brutality and hatred, and would decline to torture if they got another chance to do so?
Here they are throwing acid in the faces of children accused of witchcraft in Africa: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/afri...
Who is surprised? Shocked, offended, repulsed and nauseated, yes. But surprised?
So why should we be surprised that they would knowingly and deliberately violate the spirit and the law of the land with this legislation, and divert the dollars of unbelievers to the task of raising more Christians to persecute them?
This man revealed too much this day:
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good ... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." - Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue. 1993
Am I exaggerating here? I don't think so. I think that calling that vile church kudzu was being charitable.
Interesting and horrifying.

Off-topic (completely!)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshi...
Go Houdini!
3OHA

San Jose, CA

#10 Aug 24, 2012
The godless have brought trepidation and fear upon themselves. A house divided cannot stand, so these godless freaks imposing every concept of immorality and depravity on this nation for forty years had better realize it is their extremism starting this problem. They had better find common ground, or eventually, as in every history of every Christian nation, they will be once again relegated to an ineffectual dung heap. It is no surprise such a movement to improving education in America would result in every extremist on Topix crawling out from under their rocks. Christians started education in America and it excelled until the atheists started meddling and turning it over to State control and the meddling of Communists. Now, education has deteriorated and the same atheists cry they don't want it fixed.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#11 Aug 24, 2012
3OHA wrote:
The godless have brought trepidation and fear upon themselves. A house divided cannot stand, so these godless freaks imposing every concept of immorality and depravity on this nation for forty years had better realize it is their extremism starting this problem. They had better find common ground, or eventually, as in every history of every Christian nation, they will be once again relegated to an ineffectual dung heap. It is no surprise such a movement to improving education in America would result in every extremist on Topix crawling out from under their rocks. Christians started education in America and it excelled until the atheists started meddling and turning it over to State control and the meddling of Communists. Now, education has deteriorated and the same atheists cry they don't want it fixed.
Lol! Nutty as a fruit-cake.

'The Church' was traditionally involved in education because people who happened to be religious saw the value of education. Religious beliefs per se have only ever been a hindrance to education, science, reason, objectivity and critical thinking.

Religion is superstition (and a dead duck).

Here endeth the lesson. Awomen.
3OHA

San Jose, CA

#12 Aug 24, 2012
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>Lol! Nutty as a fruit-cake.
'The Church' was traditionally involved in education because people who happened to be religious saw the value of education. Religious beliefs per se have only ever been a hindrance to education, science, reason, objectivity and critical thinking.
Religion is superstition (and a dead duck).
Here endeth the lesson. Awomen.
ALL science, reason, objectivity and critical thinking has come from a long tradition of liberal education formulated, started and continued in the Christian religious traditions in America. Religious liberal education has made a nation literate and given them the fine aspects of education no atheist system could accomplish and subsequently has diminished. Fine Art, fine books, fine scientific accomplishments have come from the liberal education Christianity has inspired. From the McGuffey Readers forward to Harvard, Princeton and Yale, the education of a nation has come from Christian influences. You cannot rewrite history for long. Atheist influence in forty years has diminished our educational system. We have once again forty five year old illiterates running loose because of the depravity and sickness of human spirit that accompanies atheist thought.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#13 Aug 24, 2012
3OHA wrote:
<quoted text>
ALL science, reason, objectivity and critical thinking has come from a long tradition of liberal education formulated, started and continued in the Christian religious traditions in America. Religious liberal education has made a nation literate and given them the fine aspects of education no atheist system could accomplish and subsequently has diminished. Fine Art, fine books, fine scientific accomplishments have come from the liberal education Christianity has inspired. From the McGuffey Readers forward to Harvard, Princeton and Yale, the education of a nation has come from Christian influences. You cannot rewrite history for long. Atheist influence in forty years has diminished our educational system. We have once again forty five year old illiterates running loose because of the depravity and sickness of human spirit that accompanies atheist thought.
Well, I'm happy to let people judge for themselves.

I can only reiterate that secularism has been the savior of education and religion nothing but a threat to it.

Religion = superstition
Theology = mythology

Get over it.
3OHA

San Jose, CA

#14 Aug 24, 2012
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>Well, I'm happy to let people judge for themselves.
I can only reiterate that secularism has been the savior of education and religion nothing but a threat to it.
Religion = superstition
Theology = mythology
Get over it.
Secularism itself comes from the justice and egalitarianism of Christian teaching and transformation. Atheist influence in the UK has diminished her education, also. The Victorian Christian influences brought your nation out of pagan stupidity and horror. The Christian strength of the nation and its Church cemented the will of England's people to overcome WWII to victory. Now, the atheist influences have brought the nation to its knees wondering how to deal with the atheist stupidity of allowing Sharia Law into its midst. Funny, how the rebellious idiocy of youth influenced by the godless drug and rock culture could so quickly deprive England of its stature.

Atheism = Suicide

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#15 Aug 24, 2012
3OHA wrote:
<quoted text>
Secularism itself comes from the justice and egalitarianism of Christian teaching and transformation. Atheist influence in the UK has diminished her education, also. The Victorian Christian influences brought your nation out of pagan stupidity and horror. The Christian strength of the nation and its Church cemented the will of England's people to overcome WWII to victory. Now, the atheist influences have brought the nation to its knees wondering how to deal with the atheist stupidity of allowing Sharia Law into its midst. Funny, how the rebellious idiocy of youth influenced by the godless drug and rock culture could so quickly deprive England of its stature.
Atheism = Suicide
Don't be a d*ck and lie about atheism, an idea you know or care nothing about. You stick your fantasy story and we'll stick to the facts thank you very much.
Outta Luck

Santa Rosa Beach, FL

#16 Aug 24, 2012
The government does not tax churches or religious institutions.
So according to the W economics the churches should be creating jobs and saving our economy. Taxes prevent job creation. Therefore churches should have all the money and power they need to build whatever kind of school they want to, and they should not be looking for entitlements, like federal funds for their schools.
By GOP economics, the poor do not pay taxes and do not deserve assistance. The same rule should apply to religious institutions.
They do not pay into the system so taking money out of the system should be prevented.
Giving federal money for religious schools goes against the whole GOP platform. But as stated on this thread, it is impossible to mix religion and reason.

Not taxing religious institutions goes directly to "separation of church and state". The gov takes nothing from them, and religion adds nothing to government.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#17 Aug 24, 2012
EdSed wrote:
Off-topic (completely!)...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshi...
Go Houdini!
LOL.

I've got one for you, a police report:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/si...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#18 Aug 24, 2012
3OHA wrote:
A house divided cannot stand, so these godless freaks imposing every concept of immorality and depravity on this nation for forty years had better realize it is their extremism starting this problem.
What problem? My dollars funding your church? We'll fix that for you.

Or maybe you meant the slow death of your church? Sorry about that, but I don't see a problem there.
3OHA wrote:
They had better find common ground, or eventually, as in every history of every Christian nation, they will be once again relegated to an ineffectual dung heap.
Common ground? Why? You're beaten.
3OHA wrote:
Christians started education in America and it excelled until the atheists started meddling and turning it over to State control and the meddling of Communists. Now, education has deteriorated and the same atheists cry they don't want it fixed.
You're a caricature of yourself complaining about education. You're pretty much unemployable indoors, aren't you?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#19 Aug 24, 2012
3OHA wrote:
the depravity and sickness of human spirit that accompanies atheist thought.
I guess that you must really be hurting over the slow death of your religion to post something as hateful as that. It must be hard seeing the thing most precious in your life - your religion - dying right before your very eyes like this. What does that feel like? It must be horrible.
Roger Edgar

AOL

#20 Aug 24, 2012
Give up Lousiana. We are only Obama Nation now.
Surender, Submit, OBEY the Obama!

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