Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 204731 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Help religion science wander”

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#98071 Aug 18, 2013
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Sub, what is all this I hear about dinosaur collagen and soft tissue? Can you explain or point me towards some scientific links about it?
Try a google search using this term: annurev-earth-final-published. It will take you to a pdf file of Mary Higby Schweitzer's annual review article Soft Tissue Preservation in Terrestrial Mesozoic Vertebrates. This should get you started. I am reading it now myself.

Sorry for the round about way, but I couldn't get a direct link for some reason. Must be something I am not doing right with Research Gate.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#98072 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
And an article from a professional journal:
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/316/5822/27...
Thanks. Here I thought it was all a bunch of horse hockey.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#98073 Aug 18, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
RED FLAG WARNING!
Before you go jumping on the subwayzone to never never land...notice the source he provided you was over a decade and a half old...Hmmm?
Now a lesson in deductive reasoning...
You have an individual that is looking to justify their position and is not aware of a popular review that took place over 13yrs ago..so ask yourself why would this person not be aware?
May it reveal youth and inexperience? Ignorance?
Yeah, you gotta watch out for that National Geographic. They'll print any old BS.

“Help religion science wander”

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#98074 Aug 18, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
RED FLAG WARNING!
Before you go jumping on the subwayzone to never never land...notice the source he provided you was over a decade and a half old...Hmmm?
Now a lesson in deductive reasoning...
You have an individual that is looking to justify their position and is not aware of a popular review that took place over 13yrs ago..so ask yourself why would this person not be aware?
May it reveal youth and inexperience? Ignorance?
What are you babbling about?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98075 Aug 18, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
RED FLAG WARNING!
Before you go jumping on the subwayzone to never never land...notice the source he provided you was over a decade and a half old...Hmmm?
Now a lesson in deductive reasoning...
You have an individual that is looking to justify their position and is not aware of a popular review that took place over 13yrs ago..so ask yourself why would this person not be aware?
May it reveal youth and inexperience? Ignorance?
It is an old story.

If you have a better more recent one please supply it.

Please use valid sources.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98076 Aug 18, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
RED FLAG WARNING!
Before you go jumping on the subwayzone to never never land...notice the source he provided you was over a decade and a half old...Hmmm?
Now a lesson in deductive reasoning...
You have an individual that is looking to justify their position and is not aware of a popular review that took place over 13yrs ago..so ask yourself why would this person not be aware?
May it reveal youth and inexperience? Ignorance?
By the way. How good are your math skills.

What is 13 - 5 ?

“Help religion science wander”

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#98077 Aug 18, 2013
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, you gotta watch out for that National Geographic. They'll print any old BS.
Not the National Geographic. They are definitely a pro-science biased publication. Are you sure you can trust them?
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#98078 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way. How good are your math skills.
What is 13 - 5 ?
Well, I know what the half-life of DNA is, that may be a cause of concern?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98079 Aug 18, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I know what the half-life of DNA is, that may be a cause of concern?
No you don't.

You may think you do, but that is only one study I am betting.

So no answer on what 13 - 5 is yet.

Do you think it is anywhere near 15?
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#98080 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I have not studied Kant. I have studied Newton's physics. He did much more than that, oops, I have also learned some calculus which he discovered too.
And I did not try to change how the argument, and actually it was not an argument it was a question. anyway how the question was formed. I tried to answer it the best I could.
Fair enough, my apologies if I am coming across as an adversary, I was just looking for an honest exchange of views.

I know from some previous post you show interest in a variety of fields, so I know you are not just a parrot and have views to offer...
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#98081 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No you don't.
You may think you do, but that is only one study I am betting.
So no answer on what 13 - 5 is yet.
Do you think it is anywhere near 15?
Do you have an opposing position? I would love to hear it?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98082 Aug 18, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Fair enough, my apologies if I am coming across as an adversary, I was just looking for an honest exchange of views.
I know from some previous post you show interest in a variety of fields, so I know you are not just a parrot and have views to offer...
I try to be honest and will admit when I have not studied something.

“Help religion science wander”

Since: Jan 11

into the night.

#98083 Aug 18, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>As do I. I like archæology.
I didn't know he worked in archaeology as well. I think this thread benefits from the people with varied expertise. Different perspectives and knowledge are always welcome. The fundies never bring anything useful from a science perspective, or often any perspective.

“I am an ALIEN!!!”

Since: Dec 06

KREUZBERG...

#98084 Aug 18, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Tinka, how very nice to hear from you again. How are you?
How am I...

That is a good question and honestly I do not know...
Seems every minute something different years days and then ????

Hopefully I will have myself enough together to recognize the feel of an all calm and still being able to enjoy the natural highs that always have been present...

I am awaiting the dead is what I think they are around the corner and soon will arrive...

How are you?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98085 Aug 18, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have an opposing position? I would love to hear it?
No. There has been only one study that I am aware of.

I would not bet that the whole genome deteriorates at the same rate from one study only. There is a reason that scientists repeat experiments and add variables to the original experiment. From the one experiment done they have a half life of 521 years which means there would be no DNA in a 65 million year old fossil. Now they have not found actual DNA in the fossil. What they have found is that chemicals that react with DNA in a specific fashion will react with the material from the T-Rex fossil. This is strongly indicative of DNA, but it is not finding actual DNA. Going back to the experiment they are from samples up to several thousand years old. I just looked it up again, I have read it before, anyway they had bones up to 7,000 years old. That means that in the oldest bones only 1/8000 of the original DNA was there. In a dinosaur fossil we should have none.

This is a bit out of my specialty too, but I do not see those who are experts in this science going "woe is me, we are undone" so I am not too worried.
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#98086 Aug 18, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
No. There has been only one study that I am aware of.
I would not bet that the whole genome deteriorates at the same rate from one study only. There is a reason that scientists repeat experiments and add variables to the original experiment. From the one experiment done they have a half life of 521 years which means there would be no DNA in a 65 million year old fossil. Now they have not found actual DNA in the fossil. What they have found is that chemicals that react with DNA in a specific fashion will react with the material from the T-Rex fossil. This is strongly indicative of DNA, but it is not finding actual DNA. Going back to the experiment they are from samples up to several thousand years old. I just looked it up again, I have read it before, anyway they had bones up to 7,000 years old. That means that in the oldest bones only 1/8000 of the original DNA was there. In a dinosaur fossil we should have none.
This is a bit out of my specialty too, but I do not see those who are experts in this science going "woe is me, we are undone" so I am not too worried.
Now this is what I am talking about. You like information and are willing to put in an effort to research. I also like to be armed with knowledge that is why I try to find out where they are getting the information they use.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98087 Aug 18, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Now this is what I am talking about. You like information and are willing to put in an effort to research. I also like to be armed with knowledge that is why I try to find out where they are getting the information they use.
I do like to learn. Rarely creationists do bring up interesting points. But I have never seen a serious challenge to the theory of evolution. When there are millions of data points that support the theory and then there is an actually interesting question, which I admit this is, it is really an opportunity to learn more. I don't panic and attack the scientists involved.

To say we have all of the answers would be insufferable arrogance. To say we have enough evidence to assume that evolution is true is almost a no brainer.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#98088 Aug 18, 2013
Tinka wrote:
<quoted text>
How am I...
That is a good question and honestly I do not know...
Seems every minute something different years days and then ????
Hopefully I will have myself enough together to recognize the feel of an all calm and still being able to enjoy the natural highs that always have been present...
I am awaiting the dead is what I think they are around the corner and soon will arrive...
How are you?
I'm doing great Tinka, thank you. You take care of yourself.
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#98089 Aug 19, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I do like to learn. Rarely creationists do bring up interesting points. But I have never seen a serious challenge to the theory of evolution. When there are millions of data points that support the theory and then there is an actually interesting question, which I admit this is, it is really an opportunity to learn more. I don't panic and attack the scientists involved.
To say we have all of the answers would be insufferable arrogance. To say we have enough evidence to assume that evolution is true is almost a no brainer.
So, take some time to do your own research and let me know what you come up with on the half-life of DNA. See if we come to the same position...is that fair?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#98090 Aug 19, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
So, take some time to do your own research and let me know what you come up with on the half-life of DNA. See if we come to the same position...is that fair?
I already told you what it is from one experiment.

One experiment is not good enough for science. It needs to be repeated in different environments with different sources.

The only result they have now is 521 years.

Also chemical half lives are not the same as nuclear half lives. There are many factors that can affect them. So until more data comes in we are stuck with one which seems to disagree with the findings of remnants of DNA in that T-Rex fossil.

Once again, it is only one data point against millions. Simple logic should tell you that either we do not know how DNA deteriorates or what was found was not really DNA. I am not panicking and I would advise creationists not to take any comfort from this one finding.

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