Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#77960
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
So far you haven't explained anything or even countered my argument.
Nice try, keep attacking with ad hominems. In the end, we won't get to anything that will give us the real answers.
Goodluck.
I was addressing the most important part of your post to me. You misread my post and attacked me so for that sin I attacked back.

But it seems that you want to know more about ERV's.

No problem. The article I linked explained them to you too. ERV's are Endogenous Retro Viruses. Sometimes a virus will attach to a germ cell and become part of the genome. Where it attaches is pretty much random, not exactly random there are some preferred areas, so since there are roughly 3 billion places it could attach on the human genome I will round down and call it one in a billion that the a virus will attach in any one position.

These ERV's are recognizable a viruses by virologists, they have even reactivated a more recent one to "prove" that it is a virus. Either that or we created life in the laboratory, I go for the former, they were viruses. The theory of evolution did predict that a tree of life hierarchy would be apparent in ERV's too, if evolution were true. For example the odds that we would have the same ERV in the same place as a chimp if we were not related would be roughly 1 in one billion. The odds of having two ERV's in the same place would be 1 in 10^18. The odds of having three ERV's that matched would be 1 in 10^27. etc. We have roughly 98,000 ERV's in our DNA. All but a few of them we share with chimpanzees, our closest relatives. The odds of that happening are 1 in 10^880,000 if we are not related. In fact the ones that we do not share are the ones that we got since the split.

ERV's can be very useful. The number of ERV's that are different between two closely related species can be used to estimate how long ago they split. In fact there are so many that are the same investigators tend to ignore them and put all of their focus on the few that are different between species since that is how we track the splits from each other.

The odds generated by ERV's is the only legitimate odds argument I have ever seen in regards to evolution. Creationists are always left gasping for air and grasping at straws when it is presented t them. That is why you hear idiots like HTS proclaim shrilly that the "Junk paradigm of DNA is dead" even though that was never included ERV's nor did the group that tried to kill "Junk DNA" even come close to killing the concept.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#77961
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
Any evolutionists dare to answer my question? Explain the co-evolution of bees and flowers and their symbiotic relationship in nature. How about the water cycle, what are the mechanics if not intelligence that caused it?
Because if you guys can answer it, I might find your theory a bit more plausible. But for now, you only have assertions and more projections.
The burden of proof is now your shoulders.
Oh no!

The friggin water cycle? What? Are we 6?

Okay, here is a question for Cybele. What is denser. Dry air or air with water vapor in it?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#77962
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
Any evolutionists dare to answer my question? Explain the co-evolution of bees and flowers and their symbiotic relationship in nature. How about the water cycle, what are the mechanics if not intelligence that caused it?
Because if you guys can answer it, I might find your theory a bit more plausible. But for now, you only have assertions and more projections.
The burden of proof is now your shoulders.
the water cycle was caused by the nature of our atmosphere and water. why would you think it needed intelligence to design it?

i have lemon tree flowering, and self pollinationg in my front room right now. no bees needed.

“what we think we become”

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

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#77963
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh no!
The friggin water cycle? What? Are we 6?
Okay, here is a question for Cybele. What is denser. Dry air or air with water vapor in it?
LOL. And you think I didn't learn that elementary school? Duh.

I knew this was coming. You evolutionists are so predictable. Ever wonder why this planet has a unique water cycle compared to neigboring planets? Let's see...hydrogen is abundant in the universe and yet not the same amount that could create water in Mars. Let's see...oh! it's a natural process on this planet so therefore no intelligent agent would've caused it. It occurs naturally on Earth and there's nothing special about it because life is just a random chance that was the direct result of these natural events. wow. Is that what you call logic?

“what we think we become”

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

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#77964
Mar 1, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>the water cycle was caused by the nature of our atmosphere and water. why would you think it needed intelligence to design it?
i have lemon tree flowering, and self pollinationg in my front room right now. no bees needed.
That was not my question. My question is how do you explain the co-evolution of pollinating insects like bees with pollen producing flowers considering their symbiotic relationship in nature?

Haven't you heard what Einstein calculated? that when bees go extinct, we only 4 years to live. There will be domino effect.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#77965
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. And you think I didn't learn that elementary school? Duh.
I knew this was coming. You evolutionists are so predictable. Ever wonder why this planet has a unique water cycle compared to neigboring planets? Let's see...hydrogen is abundant in the universe and yet not the same amount that could create water in Mars. Let's see...oh! it's a natural process on this planet so therefore no intelligent agent would've caused it. It occurs naturally on Earth and there's nothing special about it because life is just a random chance that was the direct result of these natural events. wow. Is that what you call logic?
Ummm...mars doesn't have the same atmosphere we do. it is thought it once did, and then did have a similar water cycle.

so you idea that the Earth's water cycle is unique is a faulty premise to start from.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#77966
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. And you think I didn't learn that elementary school? Duh.
I knew this was coming. You evolutionists are so predictable. Ever wonder why this planet has a unique water cycle compared to neigboring planets? Let's see...hydrogen is abundant in the universe and yet not the same amount that could create water in Mars. Let's see...oh! it's a natural process on this planet so therefore no intelligent agent would've caused it. It occurs naturally on Earth and there's nothing special about it because life is just a random chance that was the direct result of these natural events. wow. Is that what you call logic?
Could it have anything to do with the fact that the Earth is in the zone where water can be liquid, solid and gaseous on one planet.

Really? Are you that stupid? Now you are rivaling Jimbo for stupidity.

Mars lost its water, you have no clue why.

Cybele instead of jumping to idiotic conclusions and assuming you know something you need to spend more time learning the basics.

And you did not answer my question which is denser and why?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#77967
Mar 1, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>the water cycle was caused by the nature of our atmosphere and water. why would you think it needed intelligence to design it?
i have lemon tree flowering, and self pollinationg in my front room right now. no bees needed.
Wait a second!

Your location says on Minnesota's north coast. The last I checked you could not grow citrus in Minneapolis, much less anywhere north of Duluth. That global warming is much worse than even I thought.

I still remember one winter when my eyelashes froze together every time I blinked. Now I am further north and much more temperate. No snow at all this winter. For all intents and purposes it is spring in the Puget Sound area.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

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#77968
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a second!
Your location says on Minnesota's north coast. The last I checked you could not grow citrus in Minneapolis, much less anywhere north of Duluth. That global warming is much worse than even I thought.
I still remember one winter when my eyelashes froze together every time I blinked. Now I am further north and much more temperate. No snow at all this winter. For all intents and purposes it is spring in the Puget Sound area.
<psssst> he said "front room" not front yard

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#77969
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. And you think I didn't learn that elementary school? Duh.
I knew this was coming. You evolutionists are so predictable. Ever wonder why this planet has a unique water cycle compared to neigboring planets? Let's see...hydrogen is abundant in the universe and yet not the same amount that could create water in Mars. Let's see...oh! it's a natural process on this planet so therefore no intelligent agent would've caused it. It occurs naturally on Earth and there's nothing special about it because life is just a random chance that was the direct result of these natural events. wow. Is that what you call logic?
For one thing, Mars doesn't have enough mass-ergo gravity-to hold onto an earthlike atmosphere.

Do you have any idea how many other planets there are in the universe?

There are doubtless billions of other earthlike planets in the habitable zones of their planets.

I might be convinced of an intelligent designer if we could contact life on another of those planets and found that they were just like us.

Otherwise, they will evolve according to their particular circumstances and environments.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#77970
Mar 1, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
That was not my question. My question is how do you explain the co-evolution of pollinating insects like bees with pollen producing flowers considering their symbiotic relationship in nature?
Haven't you heard what Einstein calculated? that when bees go extinct, we only 4 years to live. There will be domino effect.
other insects pollinate besides bees.

again, an insect taking advantage of the food source provided by angiosperms is the perfect example of evolution.

“what we think we become”

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

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#77971
Mar 1, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Could it have anything to do with the fact that the Earth is in the zone where water can be liquid, solid and gaseous on one planet.
Really? Are you that stupid? Now you are rivaling Jimbo for stupidity.
Mars lost its water, you have no clue why.
Cybele instead of jumping to idiotic conclusions and assuming you know something you need to spend more time learning the basics.
And you did not answer my question which is denser and why?
You have evidence that Mars lost its water? I'm not arguing that the ice found on Mars is not true. But the reason for that is still unknown. It's still a planet far-off compared to Earth. The climate is hostile for life unless you have evidence that there was life in Mars, a planet much smaller than Earth. Do you have anything to show me?

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#77972
Mar 1, 2013
 

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TerryL wrote:
<quoted text><psssst> he said "front room" not front yard
How embarrassing. "No bees needed" indeed.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#77973
Mar 1, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a second!
Your location says on Minnesota's north coast. The last I checked you could not grow citrus in Minneapolis, much less anywhere north of Duluth. That global warming is much worse than even I thought.
I still remember one winter when my eyelashes froze together every time I blinked. Now I am further north and much more temperate. No snow at all this winter. For all intents and purposes it is spring in the Puget Sound area.
Meyers lemons in a pot. my whole front room smells like a flower as it is now in full bloom. super cool! you should grow some.

although MN has the greatest recorded warming recently, I still have to use our wood stove in the winter...

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#77974
Mar 1, 2013
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
For one thing, Mars doesn't have enough mass-ergo gravity-to hold onto an earthlike atmosphere.
Do you have any idea how many other planets there are in the universe?
There are doubtless billions of other earthlike planets in the habitable zones of their planets.
I might be convinced of an intelligent designer if we could contact life on another of those planets and found that they were just like us.
Otherwise, they will evolve according to their particular circumstances and environments.
Also since Mars is much smaller it cooled quicker. No liquid core, no strong magnetic field. The atmosphere that it did have was slowly plucked away by the solar wind. Only the densest of gas remains.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

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#77975
Mar 1, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
You have evidence that Mars lost its water? I'm not arguing that the ice found on Mars is not true. But the reason for that is still unknown. It's still a planet far-off compared to Earth. The climate is hostile for life unless you have evidence that there was life in Mars, a planet much smaller than Earth. Do you have anything to show me?
Yes, I do.

How is that question coming along. Which gas is denser? Dry air or damp air?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#77976
Mar 1, 2013
 
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
For one thing, Mars doesn't have enough mass-ergo gravity-to hold onto an earthlike atmosphere.
Do you have any idea how many other planets there are in the universe?
There are doubtless billions of other earthlike planets in the habitable zones of their planets.
I might be convinced of an intelligent designer if we could contact life on another of those planets and found that they were just like us.
Otherwise, they will evolve according to their particular circumstances and environments.
from what I have read, it is believed mars did have enough mass for a similar water cycle to Earth's, perhaps not as dense because it is smaller.

it is thought its lack of a sustained magnetic feild allowed the solar wind to strip away its atmosphere over time.(intelligently, of course...)

“what we think we become”

Since: Aug 11

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#77977
Mar 1, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
How embarrassing. "No bees needed" indeed.
I see you still don't have an answer.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

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#77978
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I see you still don't have an answer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bees#Evolution

Discuss.

“what we think we become”

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

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#77979
Mar 1, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I do.
How is that question coming along. Which gas is denser? Dry air or damp air?
Hint: You can even feel that humid air is denser. Don't you kind of get suffocated with dry air? Even an airhead knows this. We can breathe humid air more easily than dry air even though humidity can sometimes be uncomfortable. Why do you think babies need air humidifiers and those with asthma need aqueous spray inhalers.

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