Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#73753 Feb 4, 2013
Other respondents have spoken about the scientific signs of evolution.
I would like to speak about the psychological signs:

■ When we stroke a dog or a cat, our inner brains tell us that we are inspecting a juvenile for lice. Likewise, when we stroke another human being, our inner brains tell us the same thing. Of course, we lost most of our fur long ago, but our inner brains don't know that.

■ Hometown loyalty is an example. My mother grew up in Woodville, Mississippi, hometown of composer William Grant Still. My father grew up in New Albany, Mississippi, hometown of writer William Faulkner. I grew up in Anderson, Indiana, hometown of Carl Erskine, pitcher for the Dodgers.

You may say, "So what? Those are other people's accomplishments, not yours." But my inner brain tells me that we are still living in villages which declare war on each other. So I want the population of each village to be as stong as possible.

■ Reaction to screen images is another example. Why do you feel afraid when a monster appears in a movie? That monster can't hurt you any more than this message on the screen can. But your inner brain tells you to react with fear to anything that looks like a wild animal.

■ Hostility toward people of differing opinion is still another example. Case in point: look at how much hatred there is right here in this thread. We attack each other because our inner brains tell us that we are confronting enemies and predators.

■ You want to know why people, especially men and boys, play fight so much?
And you want to know why friends tease each other?
And why do we express affection by lightly punching each other.

It's because they are rehearsing in case of an actual attack by enemies or predators.
Of course, physical fitness will be of little help to us if an enemy nation drops a bomb on us. Also, modern civilization has eliminated the danger of predators.
But our inner brains don't know that.

■ R. D. Guthrie, in his book Body Hot Spots, explains smiling as a form of teasing. According to Guthrie, you smile at another person in order to show your sharp fangs, which your inner brain thinks you still have. Since you believe that you can bite the other person to death, but choose not to, the other person can interpret this as a friendship signal.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#73754 Feb 5, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's more:
"The entirety of atheism is contained in this response. Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. Unfortunately, we live in a world in which the obvious is overlooked as a matter of principle. The obvious must be observed and re-observed and argued for. This is a thankless job. It carries with it an aura of petulance and insensitivity. It is, moreover, a job that the atheist does not want."
READ THE LAST LINE. Apparently, he is willing to admit that an atheist does not and would not want to have an explanation for God. By stating something like "deny the obvious" he's acknowledging that perhaps the concept of a God is what many thinks is the 'obvious' and that he evidently states that it should be 'observed' and 're-observed.'
I read his book The End of Faith. And most of his criticisms are against Islam religion. And people say he's a closet Buddhist. Go figure.
Looks to me like you have completely misunderstood Sam Harris. His use of the double negative did not help.

He is saying that to him at least, it is obvious there is no God.

And Buddhism does not require any belief in God or gods either, BTW.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#73755 Feb 5, 2013
Common Person wrote:
<quoted text>
We are all common people, you're no exception, sorry.
What religion does is give people who choose to believe something they cannot prove (a higher power, etc) is called "faith".
Join the 22nd century already. At least get educated on things you talk about.
Your own assumption that the use of the phrase "common people" is pejorative already labels you.

In any case, yes, in Seneca's time the less educated believed in a huge array of Cults from all over the Empire, while the more educated generally were versed in the philosophy, literature, and mathematics of the Greeks and took a rational approach, looking down their noses on anti-rational cults.

They were also fully aware that invoking religion was a useful tool in ruling...

Fast forward to today, and watch all the overly pious displays from politicians like Gingrich and Obama (why swear on one bible when you can use 10?). And you don't think they are using religion to manipulate "the common people"?

If you want to turn Seneca's statement into class warfare, be my guest, but I think his observation was a clear sighted one.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#73756 Feb 5, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text>This is a deformed explanation. Why are they no longer changing to human forms?
So long as you are making your living running around in trees and collecting fruit, the existing monkey/ape form is superior to any human one, for that lifestyle.

The evolution of the bipedal apes that would become the hominid line started with a specific event, the drying of East Africa and the replacement of thick jungle with Savannah. Bipedalism was a solution at the time. They could no longer survive in the same way as before, and this is what drives either adaptation or extinction.

There is no "natural tendency" for apes to become more human. Every creature adapts to the environment it is in, or dies out.

We adapted to a new environment, and we got lucky. The hand was freed from locomotion and so gradually developed into a more precise instrument (but less powerful), etc. The additional metabolic burden of a larger brain was compensated for by an increase in the protein and fat content in the new diet. Over the next six million years, this fortunate and singular collection of circumstances drove changes to our form. One thing led to another.

Other apes have not been subject to these particular circumstances, and remained confined to the thick jungles that continued to exist in Western and Southern Africa, and South East Asia. Therefore they would have no tendency to "become human".

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#73757 Feb 5, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
Wikipedia:
There are generally considered to be three outstanding problems with the Big Bang theory: the horizon problem, the flatness problem, and the magnetic monopole problem.
Horizon problem
....A resolution to this apparent inconsistency is offered by inflationary theory

Flatness problem
The overall geometry of the Universe is determined by whether the Omega cosmological parameter is less than, equal to or greater than 1.....A resolution to this problem is offered by inflationary theory.

Magnetic monopoles
The magnetic monopole objection was raised in the late 1970s. Grand unification theories predicted topological defects in space that would manifest as magnetic monopoles. These objects would be produced efficiently in the hot early Universe, resulting in a density much higher than is consistent with observations, given that searches have never found any monopoles. This problem is also resolved by cosmic inflation, which removes all point defects from the observable Universe in the same way that it drives the geometry to flatness.
So, three out of three problems already solved by Inflation.

Perhaps the US national debt is next.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#73758 Feb 5, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
Other respondents have spoken about the scientific signs of evolution.
I would like to speak about the psychological signs:
&#9632; When we stroke a dog or a cat, our inner brains tell us that we are inspecting a juvenile for lice. Likewise, when we stroke another human being, our inner brains tell us the same thing. Of course, we lost most of our fur long ago, but our inner brains don't know that.
&#9632; Hometown loyalty is an example. My mother grew up in Woodville, Mississippi, hometown of composer William Grant Still. My father grew up in New Albany, Mississippi, hometown of writer William Faulkner. I grew up in Anderson, Indiana, hometown of Carl Erskine, pitcher for the Dodgers.
You may say, "So what? Those are other people's accomplishments, not yours." But my inner brain tells me that we are still living in villages which declare war on each other. So I want the population of each village to be as stong as possible.
&#9632; Reaction to screen images is another example. Why do you feel afraid when a monster appears in a movie? That monster can't hurt you any more than this message on the screen can. But your inner brain tells you to react with fear to anything that looks like a wild animal.
&#9632; Hostility toward people of differing opinion is still another example. Case in point: look at how much hatred there is right here in this thread. We attack each other because our inner brains tell us that we are confronting enemies and predators.
&#9632; You want to know why people, especially men and boys, play fight so much?
And you want to know why friends tease each other?
And why do we express affection by lightly punching each other.
It's because they are rehearsing in case of an actual attack by enemies or predators.
Of course, physical fitness will be of little help to us if an enemy nation drops a bomb on us. Also, modern civilization has eliminated the danger of predators.
But our inner brains don't know that.
&#9632; R. D. Guthrie, in his book Body Hot Spots, explains smiling as a form of teasing. According to Guthrie, you smile at another person in order to show your sharp fangs, which your inner brain thinks you still have. Since you believe that you can bite the other person to death, but choose not to, the other person can interpret this as a friendship signal.
Some of this (not all), hate to say, reminds me of why psychology and evolutionary psychology are still wanting as real scientific disciplines.

What you have here are plausible just-so stories, an effort to explain all our behavior within an accepted paradigm. I am not saying its wrong, but its not really science. If instead you started with the premise of "Original Sin" and proceeded to explain all human behavior in these terms, you would be doing the same thing.

A lot of the conjectures above would be very difficult to provide any falsification tests for, and that is the problem.

Still, interesting.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#73759 Feb 5, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
So did Newton with his Law of Gravity and his mysticism. So did Galileo who was a devout Catholic and known to be the Father of Science. So did Georges Lemaitre, a Catholic priest who proposed the Big Bang Theory, etc. The point is even Scientists believe in a God.
Some scientists, please be precise when you are making such bold statements, it makes the majority look bad. Certainly most scientists were religious in the repressive past (most people were (or else were punished (often violently))), in the more enlightened present this is not necessarily so.

According to a 1998 report in the journal Nature, a recent survey found that 93% of NAS members are either atheists or agnostics. http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file...

Using such data (and the 50 state religion in prison survey) then if all atheists and agnostics were removed from the USA, it would lose 93% of the National Academy of Sciences but less than 1% of the prison population. Go figure…

Galileo’s devout faith did not stop him being denounced to the Inquisition in 1615 and being tried and condemned by the Inquisition in 1633, to live the rest of his life under house arrest.

Darwin, in a letter to John Fordyce in 1879 "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God.– I think that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind.”– by his own words, agnostic.

Although not a religious man Einstein’s Jewish upbringing did not stop him discovering the formula that shows that no omnipotent being (Revelation 19:6 KJV) can exist in this universe at the same time as you (E=MC^2). Nor did it stop him writing, "For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions”

Edward Teller - agnostic

Robert Oppenheimer never believed in or practiced any religion

James Watson - atheist

Francis Crick - atheist.

Carl Sagan - agnostic

Stephen Hawking - atheist.

Brian Cox - is comfortable with the unknown and does not need answers to everything.“As far as I am concerned we are information processing devices, which require energy… we convert food for energy… we are basically heat engines. This is how steam engines work, and fridge’s. So if there is an afterlife, I would have to reconsider the engineering design of fridge’s”

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73760 Feb 5, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
They know who they are. Don't need to pinpoint anyone.
I didn't ask who they were. I asked how you came to that conclusion.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#73761 Feb 5, 2013
GatorBUILT wrote:
<quoted text>
Substitute fossil fuels for religion, and survivalist for athest and you may be on to something...
I have no doubt that most fundamentalists have a twisted up personal interpretation of Christianity only as a means of perpetuating lies in pursuit of their selfishness. I just don't see too much of a difference between them and most other groups of Americans who think the system doesn't work, and are glad to break the law in their own private pursuits. Some are just more aggressive on the individual level than others. Some do little more than keep their silence to protect their jobs. It's all BS to me.

Since: Mar 09

Statesville, NC

#73762 Feb 5, 2013
01Justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
That he was human, tampon.
So are the deities throughout human history...NONE are real...ALL are MYTHS...and YOUR point is???

Since: Mar 09

Statesville, NC

#73763 Feb 5, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
So did Newton with his Law of Gravity and his mysticism. So did Galileo who was a devout Catholic and known to be the Father of Science. So did Georges Lemaitre, a Catholic priest who proposed the Big Bang Theory, etc. The point is even Scientists believe in a God.
Gee, nobody knew that...and do you really believe that should any of them be alive today, given the CURRENT state of science, technoloy and its continued progress, that they would have such so-called faith? I don't...in fct,they didn't even hold their respective cutures views duing their lifetimes...didn't mention that ALL of those folks placed knowldge before deities no that they are known historically as SCIENTISTS, and their accomlishmentd in SCIENCE, ot RELIGION...beCause THEY were SMARTER than the average pew-sitter.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#73764 Feb 5, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, theology is an amazing science.
studying how people will try to rationalize what they know to be a lie is fascinating. even when they can be shown openly that they were lied to, they will try for years to try and twist the lie to support their cult's beliefs....
it's way better than watching rats runa maze, and they can almost feed themslelves....
Agreed. It's virtually impossible for them to apply the same rational they use to dismiss every other possible 'god' ever imagined by man to the 'god' the were raised to believe is 'real'. For them, it's easier to cling to their beliefs, no matter how absurd, than it is to admit they are wrong

Since: Mar 09

Statesville, NC

#73765 Feb 5, 2013
QuiteCrazy wrote:
the only crime committed against humanity is homosexuality the decietfulness is trmenondous in that mutated gene it's traits are disintegrating the fabric of EVERYTHING
only mistake were the condoms that weren't used
WOW...homophobe, much? Just come out of the closet Father McQueery...we all know that themajority of priests are gay, KIng Jameswas gay and tha Jesuswore a dress to a dinner party with his 12- erm- MALE DISCIPLES...but I bet you still hu that bible close oyour groin, to get a warm-fuzzy, eh? Sad watching a homosexualliv in denial, self-hate and then lash out, becuase they're afraid to disapoint mommy and daddy..get some help before you kill yourel, or others...no, seriously...do it TODAY

Since: Mar 09

Statesville, NC

#73766 Feb 5, 2013
John three sixteen wrote:
Attention Creationists!
Please go over to the SDA forum Topix.. on the thread entitled "ATHEIST HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS" the atheists are very annoying..they(the atheists)have invaded the SDA Christian forum..Come Help with the Debate please! Thanks a million dear Christians!!!!!! God Bless!
Lemme get my smiting stick...be there in a jiffy...

Did you EVER think for ONCE, that Xins are scientists, too?!?

Hmmmmmmm....catechism education...'nuff said

Since: Mar 09

Statesville, NC

#73767 Feb 5, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
" I dony speak Godsmack"
You should leave then seeing as you can't keep up.
Why? You've been loitering and malingering for quite a long time..yet you're just spouting the same crap from 2000years ago...you'veresorted to one-liners, because that's ALL YOU HAVE...I'll be crushing you today, my pet...ready?

See, moron, you're so worried that bcuase you re currently one of 23 daily morons, against 100s of sciencey-types that if you diod leave it would be tantamount to defeat...sorry to burst your bubble, but you'r lik the 10,000th fundiot who has trolled the site...they come in the following flavors:
1) sanctimonious trolls- BKA: fundiots; bible-thumpers, bible-huggers, evnglicals, etc, etc
2) denialist trolls- BKA: MORONS...hicks, hayseeds, dropouts,
3) ignorant trolls- literalists, evangelicals, Phelpsians, etc, etc

Yourtact is so transparent, so tired-a$$, so old-school, yet it fades with every post...you'll tire, eventually of being beat the F^CK down...no matter, we just keep on crushin'

Since: Mar 09

Statesville, NC

#73768 Feb 5, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Alpha and Omega means the source( beginning) and the end of life( existence). No one fits in, in that attributes except God almighty.
I was in a fraternity...Alpha and Omega are lettrs of the greek alphabet...now ya gotza youz som college edumacation...for free!

A$$clownery gets you nowhere , but does lead to douchebaggery...LOFL

Since: Mar 09

Statesville, NC

#73769 Feb 5, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> The same apologetic sites that can not truly explain the questions at hand.
Why are the apes, worms, and other living agents not transforming again into human form?
Did it just stop by accident or what?
And now we have it...LAMARCKIAN evolutio is what you think?

Bwahahahhahah...here's some more 'educative' stuff...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckian_evolu...

you fail middle school biology, epically...CONGRATULATIONS...y our'e officialy creatarded.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#73770 Feb 5, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
A bit off-topic, but something's fishy with this:
"Lamborghini crash kills Kissimmee woman, Winter Haven man.
Tiffany Beene was treasurer of a Christian non-profit."
(Yes...Tiffany owned the Lamborghini)
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/bre...
Apparently there's good money in Christian non-profits.
I watch these tv evangelists and think to myself, "if only I didn't have a conscience."

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#73771 Feb 5, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Ofcourse. And many other sites including Wikipedia and others.
Show me your evidence.
MY evidence?

Sorry.

I'm not involved in the research.

You can find the evidence other independent sources and fields of study have found and make your own evaluation.

But, of course, you don't have enough personal integrity to do that.

Tell you what.

When you've looked at the real, independently arrived at evidence with the same rigor that I've looked for evidence of your, or any other god or intelligent creator, we can talk.

Until then, you've got nothing.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#73772 Feb 5, 2013
ztormbringer wrote:
<quoted text>
There is, the mafia and drug cartels recognized this about 20-25 years ago and jumped on the gravy train. Dig deep enough into non-profit structures and you'll run across their spore. From no-bid purchasing for building materials , to funny bookkeeping it's all there if anyone want's to look. Often the excuse given when caught is they were doing "good" with "dirty" money. Um, that's money laundering.
The FFRF has filed suit against the IRS for not requiring churches to provide the same onerous and costly yearly applications that are required of non sectarian non profits.

Churches should be accountable for their finances the same as any other non profit that is granted tax free status.

As of now, they, in large part, are not.

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