Evolution vs. Creation

Jan 6, 2011 Read more: Best of New Orleans 159,100
High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#73121 Jan 30, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
You write:
“Actually the truth of the matter is, Science has to tie ID in with religious creationism to avoid the real issue...that of an obvious intelligent process behind the Universe.”
Well it was the courts that made the final decision; Intelligent Design is nothing more than Creation Science (religion) rebranded. And the court was right. There is no obvious intelligence process behind the universe, and there is no obvious intelligence behind Intelligent Design.
You write:
“The very same ploy is used to tie Christianity in with the barbaric practices of the historical hebrewic <sic> culture. The one's that the Christ abhored <sic> and spoke out against. There can be no real argument against the true teaching of Christ, so it's one of non existence...”
It is my understanding that Jesus was a Hebrew and remained one through-out his life. I think you would find that the dreams and aspirations of the average Jew today is about the same as the average Christian. They just don’t believe that Jesus was the messiah…and they might be on to something.
Anyway, all of that is superfluous to Intelligent Design being religion and you’re trying to insert Christian religion into secular schools. If you want your children to know the religion, teach it in your home or send your kids to religious schools.
Just be aware that you are dumbing down your children and they might not be able to integrate into modern work situations. Also, they may be pretty mad at you when they finally find out all that religious stuff is just a big scam.
Could care less about the politics involved.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#73122 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Could care less about the politics involved.
Since you don't care about the facts, then why do you care at all?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#73123 Jan 30, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Carbon dating is only good for up to 60,000 years because the material it measures, C-14, decays into other materials with a half life of just over 5000 years. By the time you get past 60K, there is so little remaining that its not measurable against background noise.
For older materials, other decaying isotopes are used with half lives from thousands of years to several billion years. However, only carbon-14 is actually IN the specimen. For the older datings, they date the rocks around and above the fossil, and they can only be certain types of rock too.
The only point I was making was that tree rings used to verify the method....but there is quite a difference between one hundred year old tree rings, and millions of year old fossils.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#73124 Jan 30, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you don't care about the facts, then why do you care at all?
I said I don't care about the politics...politics and facts might be the same to you...but there's a world of difference.

Science taught with political bias, to support the ideology of science is not true science.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#73125 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I said I don't care about the politics...politics and facts might be the same to you...but there's a world of difference.
Science taught with political bias, to support the ideology of science is not true science.
He posted the facts. ID is nothing more than creationism, specifically christian creationism, relabeled to dishonestly attempt to make it look liks science. But it's not science, because science deals with evidence. Until evidence is provided it's nothing more than delusion.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#73126 Jan 30, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
He posted the facts. ID is nothing more than creationism, specifically christian creationism, relabeled to dishonestly attempt to make it look liks science. But it's not science, because science deals with evidence. Until evidence is provided it's nothing more than delusion.
Of course its tied in christian creationism...It has to be, because the obvious can't be honestly refuted.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73127 Jan 30, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Example:
Job 40:15-24
New International Version (NIV)
15 “Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God, yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?
Weak. Very weak.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73128 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...you call this a science forum?
I do. Is that too difficult a concept for you to grasp?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#73129 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course its tied in christian creationism...It has to be, because the obvious can't be honestly refuted.
What's "obvious?" I don't think that word means what you think it means.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73130 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny how someone tries to use logic to explain something with substance and yet you counter it with "well show me empirical evidence or it never happened."
Logic is not evidence.
Cybele wrote:
Well, then why don't you give us the evidence. You know how scientists have perfectly assembled fossilized dinosaur bones and yet NONE of them contain DNA. And yet the list of dinosaurs is astounding. No matter what you say we know that all bones contain DNA.
Start from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dinosaur...
Not to get all sciency on you but...
http://www.nature.com/news/dna-has-a-521-year...

A little research is a good thing. Don't you agree?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73131 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
They don't want evidences that goes against their science ideologies...they only except evidences that support their own secular views.
Their claim of one of bias impartiality.lol
So what is your most convincing piece of evidence?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73132 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
At what point does carbon dating break down?
If you mean no longer usable for measurement, 50-60,000 years roughly.
xxxooxxx wrote:
And how would you really know if it did or didn't?
Science. Observation and mathematics.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#73133 Jan 30, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Laugh your ass out to death you educated backward clown.
Charles, I think it's time for your nap. You obviously don't have a knack for the polysyllabic.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73134 Jan 30, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Just admit that you have no defence of your point.
You have been pissing your self up since 1949. Huh!
Just admit you have no answer. As evidenced by the above monumentally stupid (and expected) reply.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73135 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Universal Intelligence is a term used by some to describe what they see as organization, or order of the universe. It has been described as "the intrinsic tendency for things to self-organize and co-evolve into ever more complex, intricately interwoven and mutually compatible forms."
Interesting. Sounds exactly like abiogenesis.
Cybele wrote:
There is math in everything. That's the universal language and the universal intelligence of everything!It's simple matrix.
What?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73136 Jan 30, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>You still don't understand that the earth was purposefully assembled by the Creator and his word said water was involved in the very beginning.
Then he was wrong.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73137 Jan 30, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
There are a number of Scripture passages that identify the flood waters with the present-day seas (Amos 9:6 and Job 38:8-11 note “waves”). If the waters are still here, why are the highest mountains not still covered with water, as they were in Noah's day? Psalm 104 suggests an answer. After the waters covered the mountains (verse 6), God rebuked them and they fled (verse 7); the mountains rose, the valleys sank down (verse 8) and God set a boundary so that they will never again cover the earth (verse 9)[1]. They are the same waters!
Isaiah gives this same statement that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth (Isaiah 54:9). Clearly, what the Bible is telling us is that God acted to alter the earth's topography. New continental landmasses bearing new mountain chains of folded rock strata were uplifted from below the globe-encircling waters that had eroded and leveled the pre-Flood topography, while large deep ocean basin were formed to receive and accommodate the Flood waters that then drained off the emerging continents.
That is why the oceans are so deep, and why there are folded mountain ranges. Indeed, if the entire earth's surface were leveled by smoothing out the topography of not only the land surface but also the rock surface on the ocean floor, the waters of the ocean would cover the earth's surface to a depth of 1.7 miles (2.7 kilometers). We need to remember that nearly 70 percent of the earth's surface is still covered by water. Quite clearly, then, the waters of Noah's Flood are in today's ocean basins.
Yeah, your book made a claim with zero evidence therefore any water left "must" be from the flood.

Just ignore the fact there's zero evidence for and plenty of evidence against. But none of that matters when Godmagic fixes everything.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#73138 Jan 30, 2013
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
I said I don't care about the politics...politics and facts might be the same to you...but there's a world of difference.
Science taught with political bias, to support the ideology of science is not true science.
Religion taught with political bias, to support the ideology of religion is not true religion.

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#73139 Jan 30, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The word of God says it came about by the dividing of the waters. This is how the other elements were seperated from what was water to begin with and the dry part became solid earth. This is how it happened and the Bible tells us about it.
No, the BIBLE says it. A book written by men. And quite clearly, wrong on many points including this one.

If you want to look at what "God said", read the universe. Humans cannot fake a universe and the universe is telling us that Genesis is wrong.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#73140 Jan 30, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Funny how someone tries to use logic to explain something with substance and yet you counter it with "well show me empirical evidence or it never happened."
Well, then why don't you give us the evidence.
I've provided evidence for my position numerous times over. So far it's never been addressed.

Not even once.

Nothing wrong with logic, but logic alone is not enough. The ways of Aristotle have been considered out of date for a LONG time now. It was that line of thinking that one could sit on their fat azzes and just apply "logic" and claim to be able to figure out everything that led to erroneous conclusions. For example, it was considered "logical" to conclude that heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones. There's a nice video of one of the first astronauts on the moon dropping a feather and a heavier object. Without air resistance they both fell at the same rate.

Evidence and testing are ESSENTIAL to science. Logic alone simply doesn't cut it, for abstract concepts of logic may not necessarily match up to reality. Quantum physicists certainly agree with that.
Cybele wrote:
You know how scientists have perfectly assembled fossilized dinosaur bones and yet NONE of them contain DNA. And yet the list of dinosaurs is astounding. No matter what you say we know that all bones contain DNA.
Start from here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dinosaur...
65 million year old fossils are made of bone? Really? When did that start happening?

We don't get much DNA once the years reach 6 figures. On rare occasions we CAN get dessicated proteins, and they fall in line with what's expected of evolution. As does your list of fossils. Thanks for that.

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