Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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“serious about music , love rap”

Since: Oct 12

Huntsville

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#71766
Jan 22, 2013
 

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Creation all the way, and hip hop.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#71767
Jan 23, 2013
 

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anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we are talking about Evolution vs. Creation.
In case you haven't noticed, I'm the only person who has had the sense to challenge the liberal advocates who suggest that "homosexuality" is the product of evolution by the virtue of its presumed "positive" impact on a culture. Only I do it with logic, not bible thumping so stay out of my debates.
Natural selection is based on sexual reproduction. If there is no passing of the genes from one to the next generation, there will not be an inherited trait. Even if the detrimental effect of homosexual failure to procreate were not enough to prove the concept false, the plain-as-day fact that such a trait is inherently racist by its nature proves the false logic of the claim.
Genes are selfish, period! Groups overcome selfish instincts by experience, but trust is vulnerability sooner or later if the group behavior is not constantly relearned from generation to generation, and it must be learned far faster than evolution could ever adjust for. Trust is also a negative attribute if it is simply a behavior learned by misdirected sexual gratification, and has no ability to discern a valuable group member from a parasite.
There! You have a logical argument. Not that you'll ever be able to use to do anything other than bludgeon yourself under the table!
At first sight it does appear that a "gay gene" would be a contradiction in evolutionary terms. However, there are other examples of genes (really alleles) that are advantageous when one of the pair inherited from the parents has it, but deleterious when both do.

The gene conferring malarial resistance causes sickle cell anemia when inherited from both sides. This means it reaches an equilibrium in the population, conferring a net benefit so long as its not too prevalent. So it will never dominate, but never disappear either (unless a better solution evolves). There are other examples.

What if an allele that conferred some creative or other advantage in a single copy, causes homosexuality when inherited from both sides? This IS pure speculation, but its logically within the bounds of possibility.

On a completely different note. There is homosexuality. Those who are homosexual do not seem to have much choice in the matter. So WTF business is it to do with anyone else if they decide to do what they do? Its a victimless activity. Even gay marriage has NO impact on straight marriage. So who cares? Only those who fear its somehow contagious. Let it go.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#71768
Jan 23, 2013
 
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> I reject that in Jesus name, amen!
The bible says, train up a child in the ways he or she will grow(give him or her the right morals) and they will never depart or deviate from that.
Actually pretty much every culture on earth has always said raising a child properly will (usually) result in a more morally upright person.

It didn't take the Bible to point out the obvious.

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

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#71770
Jan 23, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
what about Evolution + Creation?
Maybe Evolutionary theory can be reconciled with some other Creation story, but not with the Genesis account.
According to the Genesis account, God created the great whales before he created the beasts of the earth.
Mainstream scientists tell us that the great whales are evolved from the beasts of the earth.
According to the Genesis account, God created the fowls of the air before he created the beasts of the earth.
Mainstream scientists tell us that the fowls of the air are descended from the beasts of the earth.

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

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#71771
Jan 23, 2013
 
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>I've seen a couple of wasted creatures....
http://www.livescience.com/26398-image-galler...
...and I've heard of some people getting pets high on herb.
I knew that.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

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#71772
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes you are right but I don't think religion is necessary for one to achieve a higher perception of reality. I'm not religious but I'm spiritual. There is a difference.
Animals don't have an awareness like humans do. Have you seen one get high? If they did who knows what could happen. lol
Although I consider animals to be somewhat spiritual. They do mourn for the dead and do burial rituals. Elephants are one good example of that. It's just in a different level than humans.
The point is delusions may have resulted from altered consciousness. The pharaohs of Egypt believed they were reincarnate of the Gods. And I believe they tried substances to achieve such altered states. Heard of presences of drugs in mummies?
The drugs were found to have South American origins as well. DId you know that the pyramids were alters?

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#71774
Jan 23, 2013
 

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FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The drugs were found to have South American origins as well. DId you know that the pyramids were alters?
So the pharoahs were searching for altered states?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#71775
Jan 23, 2013
 

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FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The drugs were found to have South American origins as well. DId you know that the pyramids were alters?
Tombs.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#71776
Jan 23, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
All things are evident unto themselves...only man requires evidence.
Yup. And since we ARE human...(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#71777
Jan 23, 2013
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
So no game? Yet you list here your belief of what man is made from.
So why ask? You're just a typical lying atheist. I see through you like a a plate glass window. You atheist sure like your little games.
Bub, you couldn't see an elephant if you were stuck in the middle of a herd.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#71778
Jan 23, 2013
 

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Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think I'm an atheist?
Why, you simply disagreed with him of course!

:-p
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#71779
Jan 23, 2013
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't need to provide that. You can look that up very easy.
What's to look up? MAGIC POOF! GODDIDIT! That pretty much covers it.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#71780
Jan 23, 2013
 

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RappinRollerCoaster wrote:
Creation all the way, and hip hop.
Hip hop? Just when ya thought creationism couldn't get any worse!

Thought it was bad enough when they started doing Christian rock.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

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#71781
Jan 23, 2013
 

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macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Tombs.
For the priest of the alters......

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

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#71782
Jan 23, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we are talking about Evolution vs. Creation.
In case you haven't noticed, I'm the only person who has had the sense to challenge the liberal advocates who suggest that "homosexuality" is the product of evolution by the virtue of its presumed "positive" impact on a culture. Only I do it with logic, not bible thumping so stay out of my debates.
Natural selection is based on sexual reproduction. If there is no passing of the genes from one to the next generation, there will not be an inherited trait. Even if the detrimental effect of homosexual failure to procreate were not enough to prove the concept false, the plain-as-day fact that such a trait is inherently racist by its nature proves the false logic of the claim.
Genes are selfish, period! Groups overcome selfish instincts by experience, but trust is vulnerability sooner or later if the group behavior is not constantly relearned from generation to generation, and it must be learned far faster than evolution could ever adjust for. Trust is also a negative attribute if it is simply a behavior learned by misdirected sexual gratification, and has no ability to discern a valuable group member from a parasite.
There! You have a logical argument. Not that you'll ever be able to use to do anything other than bludgeon yourself under the table!
Homosexuality has no positive impact on any culture.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#71783
Jan 23, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
At first sight it does appear that a "gay gene" would be a contradiction in evolutionary terms. However, there are other examples of genes (really alleles) that are advantageous when one of the pair inherited from the parents has it, but deleterious when both do.
The gene conferring malarial resistance causes sickle cell anemia when inherited from both sides. This means it reaches an equilibrium in the population, conferring a net benefit so long as its not too prevalent. So it will never dominate, but never disappear either (unless a better solution evolves). There are other examples.
What if an allele that conferred some creative or other advantage in a single copy, causes homosexuality when inherited from both sides? This IS pure speculation, but its logically within the bounds of possibility.
On a completely different note. There is homosexuality. Those who are homosexual do not seem to have much choice in the matter. So WTF business is it to do with anyone else if they decide to do what they do? Its a victimless activity. Even gay marriage has NO impact on straight marriage. So who cares? Only those who fear its somehow contagious. Let it go.
The explanation is right before you. If a good quality becomes bad when combined with much the same, than it would be of limited value to the genome.

Also, there has been no genetic definition on the condition. As I've already stated, it's more of a symptom than a specific illness, or if there is an overwhelming statistical observation to be made, it's not genetic, nor is it even demonstrated to be advantageous to the community.

So really, there are two points. First, a medical condition is not something that I'd subvert science and the community over. Second, the issue of marriage is not victimless. It places a higher tax burden on those in the minority who do not receive tax breaks. This is really the typical liberal perspective where the budget is based on an always growing tax base, which is an illusion.

I think everyone who is going to accept evolution on this thread has long since done so. The rest have made their choices for other reasons. Virtually everyone has made a political choice. That is why I'm fine with adding the necessary imbalance in politics required to put science in proper perspective. Not too much of an obsession, but nobody seems willing to let it go, are they?

“It's all about the struggle”

Since: Jun 10

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#71784
Jan 23, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The drugs were found to have South American origins as well. DId you know that the pyramids were alters?
I read that ancient Egyptian mommies put fly feces in their babies' milk to sedate them and keep them from crying.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#71785
Jan 23, 2013
 
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>For the priest of the alters......
For the Pharaohs.

Why are pyramids all over the world the same shape?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#71786
Jan 23, 2013
 
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>I read that ancient Egyptian mommies put fly feces in their babies' milk to sedate them and keep them from crying.
Where did you read that?

And did it work?
anonymous

Franklin, PA

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#71787
Jan 23, 2013
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Since this thread is full of fundies thoughtful comments can be rare. However skewering trolls is not done merely for skewing trolls, it is also to counter the misinformation they spread. Which can at the very least provide potential lurkers to evaluate positions for themselves and hint at further lines of investigation.
That's an honest response. You're presenting a political position as well as a logical argument, looking out for the outsider. I'm sure you wouldn't like someone cutting up your arguments and pasting them together again like a crazy ransom note!

With that in mind, that's why I find it easier to keep the wording as close to impartiality as possible, but then post a conclusion at the end of the observation. Don't make assumptions that aren't essential to your point when the point is scientific. You can play whatever games you want with the politics, but the science should come first. Sound bites make bad science.

Just my humble observation! ;)

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