Atheists want God out of Ky. homeland...

Atheists want God out of Ky. homeland security

There are 16184 comments on the The York Daily Record story from Dec 2, 2008, titled Atheists want God out of Ky. homeland security. In it, The York Daily Record reports that:

A group of atheists filed a lawsuit Tuesday seeking to remove part of a state anti-terrorism law that requires Kentucky's Office of Homeland Security to acknowledge it can't keep the state safe without God's ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The York Daily Record.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#8811 Jul 25, 2009
Okie Dokie09 wrote:
<quoted text>About if my child decided to do drugs, well no. I would help her through it to get her clean not accept that. Honestly I am an atheist, just because I dont believe in religous morals doesnt mean I dont have intellegent morals. Dont be so stupid and nieve to ask questions like that.
Deep inside I know you would help her, but my point is, you have an influence on your child.
Mountain Biker

Downers Grove, IL

#8812 Jul 26, 2009
The Heathen wrote:
<quoted text>
Because you refuse to accept my answer, it isn't enough? That's funny.. and tragic all at the same time.
How about: For the same reason that you don't believe in IPU (Invisible Pink Unicorn).
You still have not said why you converted to atheism. Someone or something has converted you and you have yet to explain why. An answer that is vague and totally incomplete is not an answer. Truth has know substitute. Give it a shot you'll love it.
Furthermore posting your opinion to be viewed by numerous adults should give you some sort of clue as to how you should handle yourself in an adult type forum. In your obvious propensity to gravitate towards childish words and phrases one can only surmise that you are either a very immature adult or a teenager with a child.
Mountain Biker

Downers Grove, IL

#8813 Jul 26, 2009
The Heathen wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice attempt to divert.. but rest assured that I'm here to put it back on track.
Answer the question. The reason you don't dare do so is because you realize that your myth has no more credibility than any other. And that's what bothers you about my, and other atheists' pointing that out.
When you can answer the question of why you converted. Please don't give the proverbial line that you came to this conclusion all by yourself. We just want to know why atheist (unless taught by parents or someone else) have converted. It is easy for me to answer that question. I was raised and taught from birth to believe in something greater than this universe (GOD). So, why?
Second Coming of Dave D

Howell, MI

#8814 Jul 26, 2009
bville man wrote:
<quoted text>
http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/physics/circ/node7...
Tweet Tweet Dave D
I got your (correct sp?) birdbrain right here.
UH OH!! Somebody found the LAW OF GRAVITATION
I posted the link so you could see the actual equation.
Now you post the LAW of evolution's equation.
Enlighten me Obi wan.
Your move, Davey
I already told you, in a previous post, that Newton's Law of Gravity (or Gravitation, whichever you prefer) is FLAWED.

Einstein's General THEORY of Relativity fixed the flaw in Newton's LAW of Gravitation.

Here's a specific example: the point on Mercury's orbit that is farthest from the sun, the aphelion, moves around in space. This is called "precession." Newton's Law can't explain all of the precession that we observe.

Using Einsteins' General Theory of Relativity, astronomers can predict the precession of Mercury as well as other observed astronomical effects which Newton's Law can not.

Don't get hung up on the nomenclature; it's a sure way to appear uneducated.

Darwin posited five laws of evolution, which you would have known had you ever read Darwin or any of the other scientists that have expanded and refined his work.

All five of Darwin's laws (evolution as such, common descent, multiplication of species, gradualism, and natural selection) have been proved in simulations and observations, and through experiment.

Just as Newton's Law holds up well enough under most circumstance, so do Darwin's.

To accept one and reject the other would be intellectually dishonest.
Second Coming of Dave D

Howell, MI

#8815 Jul 26, 2009
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
Stale mate! Here is the thing, I did not try to push God on you period. I am just questioning other views that atheists bring up. I found flaws on evolution that I posted websites for people to see and I have yet to see anybody contest them. I have a point for questioning that other person about free will on choices. When she finally answers, you will see.
Sigh...

How could you find "flaws" in evolution when it's clear that you don't even understand the basics?

You have posted that evolution doesn't explain how life began, but I've pointed out several times that it isn't supposed to.

That's like saying atomic theory doesn't explain diffusion through cell walls - two different areas of science.

Evolution isn't a "view" - it's an observed, tested, documented, verified, and accepted fact.

You will never be able to get your head around it because you don't have the requisite basic knowledge of science and the scientific method, nor do you even understand what a scientific theory is.

Stick to simpler things, like Chutes and Ladders or Old Maid.
Second Coming of Dave D

Howell, MI

#8816 Jul 26, 2009
Mountain Biker wrote:
<quoted text>
When you can answer the question of why you converted. Please don't give the proverbial line that you came to this conclusion all by yourself. We just want to know why atheist (unless taught by parents or someone else) have converted. It is easy for me to answer that question. I was raised and taught from birth to believe in something greater than this universe (GOD). So, why?
While you're waiting, I'll give you my answer.

I never "converted" to atheism (and besides, that would be impossible, since atheism is not a belief system.)

My parents were both atheist humanists and taught me to be a freethinker. While growing up, several friends tried to talk me out of my atheism by telling me that even though their god loved me and made me in his image I would surely burn in Hell for all time if I didn't repent. They showed me Scripture that backed up their claims, and when I found other verses that contradicted their claims, they informed me that I was "blind" and would not be able to interpret their god's word until I opened my heart to him.

All that did was made me even more sure that their god did not only didn't exist, but COULDN'T exist.

The other reason that most atheists are non-believers is because we're all born that way. No baby has ever been born with the knowledge of a god. That has to be taught, as was your case.

Early man didn't believe in the Christian God. Early man worshiped and revered thunder, lightning, rain, fire, etc.

Centuries later, mankind began to revere the sun, moon, and stars as gods, and ancient religions began to be constructed around these deities.

About 5000 years ago, the ancient Greeks and Egyptians created myths about the gods consorting with mortal women and producing heroes who could perform miraculous feats. Some of these heroes were later said to have been sacrificed to purge evil from the world, and then they were thought to have bodily risen back to the heavens to reunite with their fathers.

When the Jesus myth was created, there were many sources in Egypt, Greece, Sumer, and Babylon that the creators drew from. Almost every aspect of Jesus' life was plagiarized from an earlier "pagan" myth.

The early Church recognized the power of pagan beliefs, and arbitrarily changed some of the original details of the Jesus legend to correspond with the pagan rites and rituals, in some cases even changing dates to match pagan holidays.

Christmas and Easter were co-opted from the winter and spring solstices. Easter Sunday, in fact, is determined by the phases of the moon, and not based on an historical event.

So, if you study the history of religion, the bigger picture ultimately becomes clearer. All religious belief is an attempt by Man to explain not only natural phenomena, but also a way of coming to terms with the fact that we all die.

Religious faith comforts people who have not been able to transcend their fear of death. I am one of the few fortunate people who was taught not to fear death, to understand that it is a natural process and an inevitable event, and so I have no need for religious belief in my life.

In fact, the knowledge that this life is all we have has probably made me appreciate it even MORE than people who believe in an "afterlife."

Those people pity me for rejecting God; I pity them for rejecting life.

“Is that necessary?”

Since: Feb 09

Where I was born

#8817 Jul 26, 2009
Kat wrote:
<quoted text>
So you keep saying. Just keep telling yourself that, maybe you will really convince yourself it's true. No need in trying to convince me, I know better.
I'm already quite convinced. I don't need imaginary friends anymore. I don't need someone to scapegoat my mistakes onto.

“Is that necessary?”

Since: Feb 09

Where I was born

#8818 Jul 26, 2009
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
So you do agree that you will help your daughter make choices correct? Ok, so when your daughter asks you a question about God, are you going to attack her and say this is a JUJU, Spaghetti Monster, A Pink Unicorn? What exactly would you tell your daughter. Would you let her find out for herself? Would you show her a book on evolution? Would you buy a bible? What would you do?
I just so happen to have experience in this field. My son went to church... or "crutch" as I like to call it, with my family for several years. When he asked me questions, I told him the truth. For example, one time he asked "Why does it seem silly that a boat could be built big enough to hold 2 to 7 of all the animals in the world? And where would they keep the poo? And what did they all eat? And how did they keep the lions from eating everything else? And how did he get all the animals into one place? And how long were they actually on the boat, because it says it rained for 40 days and nights, but I know it would have taken at least a year or so for the water to recede? And how did the animals get back to their original habitats when some were from other continents?"

I was OVER JOYED. Here's why. I remember when I was much much younger and I asked the question, "How does a snake talk?" And the ostracization I got from the family, the looks of disdain and disgust, the harsh words of censorship, "We don't ask things like that, we just know that it's all true.". Well, apparently we DON'T ALL know that it's true. I was quite hesitant to ever ask another question. Oh, there were questions burning, but I sure didn't want to go through that again.

So when my son started asking questions, I informed him that I would always answer and answer honestly, and he had no need to feel worried or ashamed.

When he asked his question about the Noah myth, we discussed it and he realized how fantastical a story it was, that no one could gather 2 - 7 of all the animals, that there would be no way to keep them from fighting or eating each other, that there would be no way to get them back to their "home base" afterward.

That's just one example. Recently, I've been dealing with similar, but vastly different scenarios as my nephew, a documented genius has been asking me questions and making accusations that are a little painful. The problem is, his mother has befriended a church group and they are telling my nephew who used to be my BEST BUDDY... I mean, I was the first to hold him, I cut his cord, he and I bonded when he was a baby..

But these people are telling my nephew that I'm going to hell.... as well as all the other BS stories. And so it is up to me to dispell these myths for him, but make sure I do it in such a manner that doesn't upset my sister, to where she might keep my nieces and nephews away from me. I've sent in a secret agent, basically... my son. He goes out and spends the night often and talks with the boys about things. Teaching them to use their critical thinking skills and always ask questions.

I digressed. Anyway.. I told my son the absolute truth. There is no proof for anything in the buybull, there is no proof of any deity.. and we looked at quite a few of the different ones. He counts himself an agnostic leaning atheist now... bright boy that son of mine.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#8819 Jul 26, 2009
Second Coming of Dave D wrote:
<quoted text>
Sigh...
How could you find "flaws" in evolution when it's clear that you don't even understand the basics?
You have posted that evolution doesn't explain how life began, but I've pointed out several times that it isn't supposed to.
That's like saying atomic theory doesn't explain diffusion through cell walls - two different areas of science.
Evolution isn't a "view" - it's an observed, tested, documented, verified, and accepted fact.
You will never be able to get your head around it because you don't have the requisite basic knowledge of science and the scientific method, nor do you even understand what a scientific theory is.
Stick to simpler things, like Chutes and Ladders or Old Maid.
Yes genius, but I have been reading and there is evidence against evolution.

“Is that necessary?”

Since: Feb 09

Where I was born

#8820 Jul 26, 2009
Mountain Biker wrote:
<quoted text>
You still have not said why you converted to atheism. Someone or something has converted you and you have yet to explain why.
Because I realized that ALL the stories of jujus and spooks was a bunch of bull, a load of fiction.
An answer that is vague and totally incomplete is not an answer. Truth has know substitute. Give it a shot you'll love it.
Now.. you see how I already answered the question? You said.. "Why don't you believe in the great giant head in the sky?" And I replied, "For the same reason that you don't believe in Zeus." Look at the answer I've given here... it does not have the same words, yet it has the same meaning. So.. why do you not believe in Zeus? Is it the same reason I don't believe in Shiva?
Furthermore posting your opinion to be viewed by numerous adults should give you some sort of clue as to how you should handle yourself in an adult type forum. In your obvious propensity to gravitate towards childish words and phrases one can only surmise that you are either a very immature adult or a teenager with a child.
You christers are guilty of scaring people into believing your juju, in to falling into lock step and hating the same things you hate, shunning the same things you shun and trying to censor the rest of the world... and you don't think that is childish?

Newsflash: believing in imaginary things is more childish than NOT believing in imaginary things.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#8821 Jul 26, 2009
Second Coming of Dave D wrote:
<quoted text>
Sigh...
How could you find "flaws" in evolution when it's clear that you don't even understand the basics?
You have posted that evolution doesn't explain how life began, but I've pointed out several times that it isn't supposed to.
That's like saying atomic theory doesn't explain diffusion through cell walls - two different areas of science.
Evolution isn't a "view" - it's an observed, tested, documented, verified, and accepted fact.
You will never be able to get your head around it because you don't have the requisite basic knowledge of science and the scientific method, nor do you even understand what a scientific theory is.
Stick to simpler things, like Chutes and Ladders or Old Maid.
Dude, I am not the one that lives with my mom and has her answering things for me.

“Is that necessary?”

Since: Feb 09

Where I was born

#8822 Jul 26, 2009
Mountain Biker wrote:
<quoted text>
When you can answer the question of why you converted. Please don't give the proverbial line that you came to this conclusion all by yourself. We just want to know why atheist (unless taught by parents or someone else) have converted. It is easy for me to answer that question. I was raised and taught from birth to believe in something greater than this universe (GOD). So, why?
And if you had been born in India, you'd have probably been taught from birth to believe in several "something greater than the universe"s. And they would have been Shivan, Ganesh, Brahman... and so on. Your particular brand of jujuism is pretty much an accident of your birth. If this doesn't help to show you that your particular cult isn't just as much BS as all the others, and trust and believe that all the others are... then I don't know what you tell you other than the fact that Denial isn't a river in Eqypt.

“There are other issues.”

Since: May 09

Location hidden

#8823 Jul 26, 2009
The Heathen wrote:
<quoted text>
I just so happen to have experience in this field. My son went to church... or "crutch" as I like to call it, with my family for several years. When he asked me questions, I told him the truth. For example, one time he asked "Why does it seem silly that a boat could be built big enough to hold 2 to 7 of all the animals in the world? And where would they keep the poo? And what did they all eat? And how did they keep the lions from eating everything else? And how did he get all the animals into one place? And how long were they actually on the boat, because it says it rained for 40 days and nights, but I know it would have taken at least a year or so for the water to recede? And how did the animals get back to their original habitats when some were from other continents?"
I was OVER JOYED. Here's why. I remember when I was much much younger and I asked the question, "How does a snake talk?" And the ostracization I got from the family, the looks of disdain and disgust, the harsh words of censorship, "We don't ask things like that, we just know that it's all true.". Well, apparently we DON'T ALL know that it's true. I was quite hesitant to ever ask another question. Oh, there were questions burning, but I sure didn't want to go through that again.
So when my son started asking questions, I informed him that I would always answer and answer honestly, and he had no need to feel worried or ashamed.
When he asked his question about the Noah myth, we discussed it and he realized how fantastical a story it was, that no one could gather 2 - 7 of all the animals, that there would be no way to keep them from fighting or eating each other, that there would be no way to get them back to their "home base" afterward.
That's just one example. Recently, I've been dealing with similar, but vastly different scenarios as my nephew, a documented genius has been asking me questions and making accusations that are a little painful. The problem is, his mother has befriended a church group and they are telling my nephew who used to be my BEST BUDDY... I mean, I was the first to hold him, I cut his cord, he and I bonded when he was a baby..
But these people are telling my nephew that I'm going to hell.... as well as all the other BS stories. And so it is up to me to dispell these myths for him, but make sure I do it in such a manner that doesn't upset my sister, to where she might keep my nieces and nephews away from me. I've sent in a secret agent, basically... my son. He goes out and spends the night often and talks with the boys about things. Teaching them to use their critical thinking skills and always ask questions.
I digressed. Anyway.. I told my son the absolute truth. There is no proof for anything in the buybull, there is no proof of any deity.. and we looked at quite a few of the different ones. He counts himself an agnostic leaning atheist now... bright boy that son of mine.
So you told your son your view of things and really didn't let him find out for himself correct? So it is safe to say that you pushed atheism to your son. Again, he didn't choose it for himself. What you told him is the truth in your view, but you really don't know. The point is, he was converted by you.

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#8824 Jul 26, 2009
If you aren't bothering to live your faith, why should anyone else?

BTW--the pilgrims came over in part because of their persecution by OTHER religious groups. Not atheists.
Guess What wrote:
<quoted text>First of all I believe in the almighty but I don't live it the way I should. Second, I can tell the truth about you morons all day long. Third, the only cheek I would turn would be some lowlife,do nothing,inbread asshole that would get in my face and brag about being an atheist and sit around and want,want want. You are a useless burden on this country. The people came here from England to get away from people like you assthist and damn if you didn't follow us over here. Well I say send you back over there and let them deal with you. You and your inbread offspring. So I can tell you is suck it up and if you want attention get on Saturday Night Live.

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#8825 Jul 26, 2009
Not all believers are stupid, but certainly the majority of believers on this board have demonstrated the trait.

What most of these posters don't understand is that they can believe in anything they want, but they need to keep it out of the government.
Educated What wrote:
Dave, these people are getting to you. You are lacking character by cussing. What is wrong with you? Do you really have to resort to that? All believers are not stupid, they just don't believe what you believe to be true. Think about this, don't we also have the right to believe in what we want to believe in? Dude, relax.

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#8826 Jul 26, 2009
A drug is a drug. An addict uses whatever they need to get the endorphins pumping and whatever dulls the pain in their lives.
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
How would you know since you don't believe in religion. Wait, do you smoke crack or sniff it?

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#8827 Jul 26, 2009
First of all, you read an opinion on the use of logic, not an authoritative proof. Secondly, even leaving logic aside, your reasoning is flawed. Your argument in essence is that god exists because you believe he does. Clearly, that is not how the universe works in real life. And even more importantly, you cannot expect anyone else to go along with your beliefs without proof. You have no more convincing argument for your deity than a worshiper of osiris or Damballah. You cannot prove on ANY level that your religion is any more true than any other.

In this country, no one is required to believe in any god, much less yours. And this government is not allowed to establish any religion or deity as part of legislative protocol.
Kat wrote:
<quoted text>
I keep hearing you talk about logic, yet I've seen none from you. I know your clueless.
I found this quite interesting, especially words such as "likey" "usually" "not absolute law".
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew...
Logic & Fallacies
Constructing a Logical Argument (1997)
mathew
[ Espaņol / Spanish ]
Introduction
There is a lot of debate on the net. Unfortunately, much of it is of very low quality. The aim of this document is to explain the basics of logical reasoning, and hopefully improve the overall quality of debate.
The Concise Oxford English Dictionary defines logic as "the science of reasoning, proof, thinking, or inference." Logic will let you analyze an argument or a piece of reasoning, and work out whether it is likely to be correct or not. You don't need to know logic to argue, of course; but if you know even a little, you'll find it easier to spot invalid arguments.
There are many kinds of logic, such as fuzzy logic and constructive logic; they have different rules, and different strengths and weaknesses. This document discusses simple Boolean logic, because it's commonplace and relatively easy to understand. When people talk about something being "logical," they usually mean the type of logic described here.
What logic isn't
It's worth mentioning a couple of things which logic is not.
First, logical reasoning is not an absolute law which governs the universe. Many times in the past, people have concluded that because something is logically impossible (given the science of the day), it must be impossible, period. It was also believed at one time that Euclidean geometry was a universal law; it is, after all, logically consistent. Again, we now know that the rules of Euclidean geometry are not universal.
Second, logic is not a set of rules which govern human behavior. Humans may have logically conflicting goals. For example:
* John wishes to speak to whomever is in charge.
* The person in charge is Steve.
* Therefore John wishes to speak to Steve.
Unfortunately, John may have a conflicting goal of avoiding Steve, meaning that the reasoned answer may be inapplicable to real life.
This document only explains how to use logic; you must decide whether logic is the right tool for the job. There are other ways to communicate, discuss and debate.

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#8828 Jul 26, 2009
My mother was a teacher for 50 years. Yes, I am amazed that you teach because obviously the standards have fallen tremendously. Grammar is a sign of an EDUCATED mind and proper grammar usage used to be a requirement regardless of the subject you taught. If I had a kid and they were in your class, I would find another school because i wouldn't want him to think your lack of basic english skills was appropriate or even acceptable.

Einstein did poorly in school because the concept of advanced placement wasn't even an option in schools in his day. Many geniuses do poorly in school because they get bored. Not to mention that his development was delayed due to poor parenting; he was barely able to talk when he entered school.
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't hav to learn anything, but I bet it blows your mind that I teach. It is so funny how atheists go around the topic by using cuss words, grammar, or other tactics to try to make themselves sound really intelligent. Yet, Albert
Einstein did horrible in school. Was he considered a genius? Hmmm.... Now, just like Dave, I will look from now on and find errors in your posts. I already found some on Dave, but I guess it is your turn. One more thing, are you a female? If so, are you hot? J/K

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#8830 Jul 26, 2009
You have no background in science and you can't speak basic english, so what do you teach?

I'm betting you "teach" gym, which is kinda like special ed on the employment level.
Educated What wrote:
<quoted text>
Like none of you mad dumb claims. Ok, how do you prove that evolution is correct? Let me guess your answer, read the books from 8th grade science. That does not cut it. Let's play your game, the scientist who mad these claims where probably drunk or high on something. They saw a rock and called it a fossil and compared it to the human middle finger to see if they are the same. Now, it is the same concept, you beleive what somebody else wrote. Can you prove that this person or persons didn't do drugs? Hmmm.... So now that you have that, do you believe in science? If yes, go check yourself in to a lab so they can do experiments on you.

Cpetr13

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#8831 Jul 26, 2009
Great. Now prove the soul exists.
Kat wrote:
<quoted text>
....but it can't save my soul. Only GOD can do that1

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