Presbyterian Church narrowly rejects ...

Presbyterian Church narrowly rejects pro-gay proposal to redefine marriage to 2 people

There are 150 comments on the Star Tribune story from Jul 6, 2012, titled Presbyterian Church narrowly rejects pro-gay proposal to redefine marriage to 2 people. In it, Star Tribune reports that:

The Presbyterian Church narrowly rejected a proposal to revise the traditional definition of marriage on Friday, a year after it struck down a barrier to ordaining gays.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Star Tribune.

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DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#1 Jul 6, 2012
As someone raised Presbyterian I am disappointed in this, but not surprised. Sadly Puritanism is still very powerful among Presbyterians.

Maybe someday the Church as a whole will finally endorse what Jesus said in Matthew 25.

Goats and sheep. What you do to my children you do unto me.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#2 Jul 6, 2012
Titus 3

King James Version (KJV)

3 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#3 Jul 6, 2012
John 8:7
http://bible.cc/john/8-7.htm

Unfortunately the Presbyterian Church seems to be focused more on judgement than forgiveness and salvation by the grace of God.

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#4 Jul 6, 2012
DNF wrote:
John 8:7
http://bible.cc/john/8-7.htm
Unfortunately the Presbyterian Church seems to be focused more on judgement than forgiveness and salvation by the grace of God.
Doesn't matter. Everyone knows that only ELCA Lutherans are SAVED anyways.

:)

“We are all atheists”

Since: May 11

Lewes, DE

#5 Jul 6, 2012
I've always been amused by the concept of voting to know god's will. The most flagrant example is the election of the new pope in the Vatican when the need arises - the next person to be the representative, nay the very embodiment of god on earth, the next in the line of Peter, the rock of the church, is decided by a vote - of humans (oh, and did I mention "male" humans?).

I guess I just think that an omnipotent god could make its wishes known without requiring voting. Does the deity try to influence such voting? Buy votes? Support certain candidates? Try to prohibit those who will vote wrong to be disenfranchised so that they cannot vote? Because I'm pretty sure that these tactics, the same tactics we see in mere human elections, are at play in these most sacred elections...

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#6 Jul 6, 2012
qwerty26 wrote:
I've always been amused by the concept of voting to know god's will. The most flagrant example is the election of the new pope in the Vatican when the need arises - the next person to be the representative, nay the very embodiment of god on earth, the next in the line of Peter, the rock of the church, is decided by a vote - of humans (oh, and did I mention "male" humans?).
I guess I just think that an omnipotent god could make its wishes known without requiring voting. Does the deity try to influence such voting? Buy votes? Support certain candidates? Try to prohibit those who will vote wrong to be disenfranchised so that they cannot vote? Because I'm pretty sure that these tactics, the same tactics we see in mere human elections, are at play in these most sacred elections...
Why are you paying any attention at all to the Catholic Church ?! Almost nobody else is !
Seibring

Lacon, IL

#7 Jul 6, 2012
No church that is truly Christian can EVER affirm or bless what God condemns.

“We are all atheists”

Since: May 11

Lewes, DE

#8 Jul 6, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you paying any attention at all to the Catholic Church ?! Almost nobody else is !
My comments apply to all sects and denominations - such as the subject of this article, Presbyterians. Pretty much ever religion has some sort of methodology to "vote" on what is the will of their deity. I'll bet even yours (some Lutheran offshoot if I recall). Or does your deity make known its will to your members without any human organization involvement? If so, we'd like to see it, hear more about it.

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#9 Jul 6, 2012
qwerty26 wrote:
<quoted text>
My comments apply to all sects and denominations - such as the subject of this article, Presbyterians. Pretty much ever religion has some sort of methodology to "vote" on what is the will of their deity. I'll bet even yours (some Lutheran offshoot if I recall). Or does your deity make known its will to your members without any human organization involvement? If so, we'd like to see it, hear more about it.
The Roman Catholic Church is a top-down regimented heirchal organization. The leader is called the pope.

MOST Protestant denominations, and other Christian denominations, are bottom-up organizations that do either do NOT have one leader, or if they do, then leader is elected by the memebr so teh church or their representatives. And most churches in Protestant denominations are free to leave the denomination whenever they wish.

I belong to 2 Protestant denominations, those being the Lutheran Church (ELCA), the LARGEST Lutheran denomination in North America, and I also belong to The United Church Of Christ (UCC). And while ELCA has a presiding bishop, that position, unlike the pope, is an elected position for 5 years, AND has NO authority of any local church whatsoever.

The United Church Of Christ has NO leader whatsoever. Churches in the UCC are in a free association with none another, and once again, there is NO central authority over any church whatsoever.

MOST Protestant denominations, and other non-Catholic, non-Protestant Christian denominations are organized this way.

The United Church Of Christ has allowed gay and lesbian pastors, and gay marriage within teh church for a couple of decades. In 2009, the ELCA Churchwide Assembly, the people attending VOTED to allow gay and lesbian people to be ordained/

“Church | | State”

Since: Jun 07

Toby's Landing

#10 Jul 6, 2012
Seibring wrote:
No church that is truly Christian can EVER affirm or bless what God condemns.
Geez, David... "Seibring"??? Where are you digging up these monikers? Are they suggested by those little voices in your head?

And you didn't even spell it correctly!

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#11 Jul 6, 2012
qwerty26 wrote:
I've always been amused by the concept of voting to know god's will. The most flagrant example is the election of the new pope in the Vatican when the need arises - the next person to be the representative, nay the very embodiment of god on earth, the next in the line of Peter, the rock of the church, is decided by a vote - of humans (oh, and did I mention "male" humans?).
I guess I just think that an omnipotent god could make its wishes known without requiring voting. Does the deity try to influence such voting? Buy votes? Support certain candidates? Try to prohibit those who will vote wrong to be disenfranchised so that they cannot vote? Because I'm pretty sure that these tactics, the same tactics we see in mere human elections, are at play in these most sacred elections...
Man's conflation of his own will with godliness goes way back. Caesar had the Roman senate vote him a god. I believe many cultures automatically ascribed godhood to their leaders. God was created in man's image, and He is subject to man's will.
Merlin

Lacon, IL

#12 Jul 7, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
The Roman Catholic Church is a top-down regimented heirchal organization. The leader is called the pope.
MOST Protestant denominations, and other Christian denominations, are bottom-up organizations that do either do NOT have one leader, or if they do, then leader is elected by the memebr so teh church or their representatives. And most churches in Protestant denominations are free to leave the denomination whenever they wish.
I belong to 2 Protestant denominations, those being the Lutheran Church (ELCA), the LARGEST Lutheran denomination in North America, and I also belong to The United Church Of Christ (UCC). And while ELCA has a presiding bishop, that position, unlike the pope, is an elected position for 5 years, AND has NO authority of any local church whatsoever.
The United Church Of Christ has NO leader whatsoever. Churches in the UCC are in a free association with none another, and once again, there is NO central authority over any church whatsoever.
MOST Protestant denominations, and other non-Catholic, non-Protestant Christian denominations are organized this way.
The United Church Of Christ has allowed gay and lesbian pastors, and gay marriage within teh church for a couple of decades. In 2009, the ELCA Churchwide Assembly, the people attending VOTED to allow gay and lesbian people to be ordained/
We've been through this before, liar.

Only about 10% of UCC congregations have chosen to be 'open and affirming.' Many fewer ELCA congregations put up with such anti-Bible nonsense.

Of what value is a church that doesn't uphold the Bible?

Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
I Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)- Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB)- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."

CHRISTIANITY condemns all homosexual behavior as exhibited in the Bible. Any group that differs from this is not Christian.

“I call it as I see it.”

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#13 Jul 8, 2012
DNF wrote:
As someone raised Presbyterian I am disappointed in this, but not surprised. Sadly Puritanism is still very powerful among Presbyterians.
Maybe someday the Church as a whole will finally endorse what Jesus said in Matthew 25.
Goats and sheep. What you do to my children you do unto me.
This is about remaining true to the Bible and rejection of taking Jesus' statements out of their proper context. Jesus never intended his words to be used to justify disobedience to the Word of God. Homosexual practice is inconsistant with what the Bible teaches. Let us not forget what he said to the woman caught in her sin who was about to be stones. "Go and sin no more."
Wloclawek Warrior

Petersburg, VA

#14 Jul 8, 2012
DNF wrote:
As someone raised Presbyterian I am disappointed in this, but not surprised. Sadly Puritanism is still very powerful among Presbyterians.
Maybe someday the Church as a whole will finally endorse what Jesus said in Matthew 25.
Goats and sheep. What you do to my children you do unto me.


AMEN, The True And Faithful Witness, is the only thing left out.

“I call it as I see it.”

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#15 Jul 8, 2012
DNF wrote:
John 8:7
http://bible.cc/john/8-7.htm
Unfortunately the Presbyterian Church seems to be focused more on judgement than forgiveness and salvation by the grace of God.
Salvation also involves repentance and not continuing on with business as usual. Even Jesus spoke about judgment to the unrepentant.

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#16 Jul 8, 2012
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>This is about remaining true to the Bible and rejection of taking Jesus' statements out of their proper context. Jesus never intended his words to be used to justify disobedience to the Word of God. Homosexual practice is inconsistant with what the Bible teaches. Let us not forget what he said to the woman caught in her sin who was about to be stones. "Go and sin no more."
He also beat and whipped people with whom He disagreed.
Wloclawek Warrior

Petersburg, VA

#17 Jul 8, 2012
So do I, does that make me him11? I would only wish so.
Wloclawek Warrior

Petersburg, VA

#18 Jul 8, 2012
I like and Love JESUS. He did what was right. If he beat and whipped it was for their own good. To the atheist, You make me laugh, just like a carnival where all the clowns are in tuxedos
Wloclawek Warrior

Petersburg, VA

#19 Jul 8, 2012
DNF wrote:
Titus 3
King James Version (KJV)
3 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
I like number nine the best.

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#20 Jul 8, 2012
Wloclawek Warrior wrote:
I like and Love JESUS. He did what was right. If he beat and whipped it was for their own good. To the atheist, You make me laugh, just like a carnival where all the clowns are in tuxedos
Clowns are grotesque and scary.

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