National impact from New York marriag...

National impact from New York marriage law: experts

There are 21 comments on the Reuters story from Jun 25, 2011, titled National impact from New York marriage law: experts. In it, Reuters reports that:

When New York became the sixth and by far the largest state to legalize same-sex marriage, following a grueling overtime session in the state Legislature on Friday, it immediately transformed the national debate over the issue, legal experts said.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

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Ringbearer

Linares, Spain

#1 Jun 25, 2011
Civillywedd.com says: "You came through, NEW YORK!, NEW YORK! I am one very happy New York born and raised camper!" Congratulations to all Lgbt's who plan to marry in the future!
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#2 Jun 25, 2011
(being as fair and objective as possible) Both the pro-gay and the anti-gay mention consequences of marriage equality. Now, as this article points out, we all WILL get to see what those consequences are.

The trick and the key will be to analyze changes *effectively, objectively and fairly* without resort to hyperbole, manipulation or lies.

The *nanosecond* the anti-gay begin to engage in that behavior, the pro-gay have every right to start screaming and dismiss ALL anti-gay contributions, stubborn as mules in their own analysis of what GOOD has come from this.

And that's probably what's going to happen.

But right now, if cooler heads prevail, what I am saying is that here's a *genuine* opportunity to see how things change. Personally, I don't like that non-severability clause or whatever it is, and it does not sit well with me and *will not* until I see how it resolves itself in real-life disputes (which OF COURSE are going to happen). But until then, here's the opportunity everyone's been waiting for.

Since: Feb 10

Woodstock, Illinois

#3 Jun 25, 2011
hi hi wrote:
(being as fair and objective as possible) Both the pro-gay and the anti-gay mention consequences of marriage equality. Now, as this article points out, we all WILL get to see what those consequences are.
The trick and the key will be to analyze changes *effectively, objectively and fairly* without resort to hyperbole, manipulation or lies.
The *nanosecond* the anti-gay begin to engage in that behavior, the pro-gay have every right to start screaming and dismiss ALL anti-gay contributions, stubborn as mules in their own analysis of what GOOD has come from this.
And that's probably what's going to happen.
But right now, if cooler heads prevail, what I am saying is that here's a *genuine* opportunity to see how things change. Personally, I don't like that non-severability clause or whatever it is, and it does not sit well with me and *will not* until I see how it resolves itself in real-life disputes (which OF COURSE are going to happen). But until then, here's the opportunity everyone's been waiting for.
I also do not like that clause as I see a potential use of it by the anti equality clan. I wonder if it can be used by them to sue a group like catholic charities for discrimination, winning the case against them, and in doing so, overturn the entire law. I also wonder if that could backfire on them and a judge could find just that clause unconstitutional and strike it. It is beyond my feeble legal knowledge, but just a thought.
hoodathunkit

Bucyrus, OH

#4 Jun 25, 2011
Congratulations, New York!!! I find it a bit ironic that the bill passed primarily along party lines with Democrats voting overwhelmingly for it and Republicans voting overwhelmingly against it in a Republican controlled Senate. It passed with 97% of Democrats and 12% of Republicans voting for it while 3% of Democrats and 88% of Republicans voted against it. It's like a miracle that the Democrats were able to pull this off in a Republican controlled Senate.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#5 Jun 25, 2011
Diary of the Lemonheads (One man's journey On Topix dot net)

During my life I have learned many things. Some good. Some bad. This is just a sample and come from folks that I admire for their wisdom and compassion. I'm sitting here having one of those moments where I'm seeing how amazing this website is. How fortunate I am to have what I have. And how much I want everyone else to have the same rights and privileges of living where I live. Imagine in the future someone doing research and discovering us, the ten people linked by Topix because of this message feature. They'd be able to call it, "Diary of the Lemonheads".

How amazing a history it would be. Ten stories each a recording for our children, and in fact answering to them now, "Why did 'marriage' and the word 'gay' cause so much trouble with you adults, us kids turned out just fine.”“Why all the fuss about 'saving the children' over such silly issues like,'Public displays of Affection'”?

&fe ature=player_embedded#at=19

Us Lemonheads all have one thing in common. We want to be safe from Government interference within our own homes. But we ALSO gladly abide by fair rules outside our home. . I'm not clear how easy ballet initiatives are to get in NY. but "the will and the voice of the people" has spoken. The people WE ALL elected.

So this is my standard reply to trolls on a new thread. OR WHEN I LEAVE A THREAD!

Thank you for joining MY family.“The Lemonheads of Topix.”. For debating what a family is and what words “original intents” were. And for learning,“what was all the fighting about”. My family is gay, straight, black , white, mixed, and adoptive. Jew, and Gentile; Agnostic and Atheist, Liberal and Conservative, Democrat, and Republican. U.S. Citizens.

During this journey I learned a few things from very wise people. I offer some of them now so others will remember where we were, where we are, and where we are going at THIS moment in time.

Saturday, June 25, 2011 10:43 P.M. EST

How far that little candle shows his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world.
- William Shakespeare

The man who removes a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.
- William Faulkner

Faith is the bird that feels the light. And sings when the dawn is still dark.
- Rabindranath Tagore

Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they are.
- Malcolm Forbes

When there is an original sound in the world, it makes a hundred echoes.
- John A. Shedd

Children are likely to live up to what you believe of them.
- Lady Bird Johnson

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
- Harold J. Smith

If you want to see the sun shine, you have to weather the storm.
- Frank Lane

"When two people are at one in their inmost hearts, they shatter even the strength of iron or bronze; and when two people understand each other in their inmost hearts, their words are sweet and strong like the fragrance of orchids." - I Ching

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.-Ayn Rand

"I cannot think that we are useless, or God would not have created us. And the Sun, the darkness, the winds are all listening to what we have to say." - Geronimo

"An eye for an eye leaves the world blind" -Gandhi

"There is no such thing as a gay agenda. It's a human agenda." ~ Elizabeth Taylor

The time is always right to do what is right.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

We the People  of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution
Frank Stanton

New York, NY

#6 Jun 25, 2011
DNF wrote:
Diary of the Lemonheads (One man's journey On Topix dot net)
During my life I have learned many things. Some good. Some bad. This is just a sample and come from folks that I admire for their wisdom and compassion. I'm sitting here having one of those moments where I'm seeing how amazing this website is. How fortunate I am to have what I have. And how much I want everyone else to have the same rights and privileges of living where I live. Imagine in the future someone doing research and discovering us, the ten people linked by Topix because of this message feature. They'd be able to call it, "Diary of the Lemonheads".
How amazing a history it would be. Ten stories each a recording for our children, and in fact answering to them now, "Why did 'marriage' and the word 'gay' cause so much trouble with you adults, us kids turned out just fine.”“Why all the fuss about 'saving the children' over such silly issues like,'Public displays of Affection'”?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =ervaMPt4Ha0XX&feature=pla yer_embedded#at=19
Us Lemonheads all have one thing in common. We want to be safe from Government interference within our own homes. But we ALSO gladly abide by fair rules outside our home. . I'm not clear how easy ballet initiatives are to get in NY. but "the will and the voice of the people" has spoken. The people WE ALL elected.
So this is my standard reply to trolls on a new thread. OR WHEN I LEAVE A THREAD!
Thank you for joining MY family.“The Lemonheads of Topix.”. For debating what a family is and what words “original intents” were. And for learning,“what was all the fighting about”. My family is gay, straight, black , white, mixed, and adoptive. Jew, and Gentile; Agnostic and Atheist, Liberal and Conservative, Democrat, and Republican. U.S. Citizens.
During this journey I learned a few things from very wise people. I offer some of them now so others will remember where we were, where we are, and where we are going at THIS moment in time.
Saturday, June 25, 2011 10:43 P.M. EST
How far that little candle shows his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world.
- William Shakespeare
The man who removes a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.
- William Faulkner
Faith is the bird that feels the light. And sings when the dawn is still dark.
- Rabindranath Tagore
Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they are.
- Malcolm Forbes
When there is an original sound in the world, it makes a hundred echoes.
- John A. Shedd
Children are likely to live up to what you believe of them.
- Lady Bird Johnson
More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
- Harold J. Smith
If you want to see the sun shine, you have to weather the storm.
- Frank Lane
"When two people are at one in their inmost hearts, they shatter even the strength of iron or bronze; and when two people understand each other in their inmost hearts, their words are sweet and strong like the fragrance of orchids." - I Ching
Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.-Ayn Rand
"I cannot think that we are useless, or God would not have created us. And the Sun, the darkness, the winds are all listening to what we have to say." - Geronimo
"An eye for an eye leaves the world blind" -Gandhi
"There is no such thing as a gay agenda. It's a human agenda." ~ Elizabeth Taylor
The time is always right to do what is right.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
We the People  of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution
Great post !

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#7 Jun 25, 2011
Frank Stanton wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post !
TY
John S

Tucker, GA

#9 Jun 26, 2011
Thank You for your post DNF I love all of the fabulous proverbial words of wisdom.
God Bless.
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#11 Jun 26, 2011
Ron431 wrote:
<quoted text>
I also do not like that clause as I see a potential use of it by the anti equality clan. I wonder if it can be used by them to sue a group like catholic charities for discrimination, winning the case against them, and in doing so, overturn the entire law. I also wonder if that could backfire on them and a judge could find just that clause unconstitutional and strike it. It is beyond my feeble legal knowledge, but just a thought.
It's actually not beyond your legal knowledge. Judges themselves disagree endlessly. Your interpretation is *pretty much as good as anyone else's*.

Indeed, you point out something important here: The clause was an "inseverability" clause but that DOES NOT MEAN it can't be severed. A judge might sever it! He might pronounce it unduly burdensome and unfair to the married couples statewide, and simply remove it.

You can rest assured that in NEW YORK, of all places, a most savagely spirited defense of the gay couples will ensue if any nonsense occurs legally. It will be fought like few knock-down-drag-out fights you've ever seen. It is *probable* that marriage equality is here to stay, and that it won't be gone without such a fight that it would cause the anti-gay serious blood pressure problems.
Frank Stanton

New York, NY

#12 Jun 26, 2011
hi hi wrote:
<quoted text>
It's actually not beyond your legal knowledge. Judges themselves disagree endlessly. Your interpretation is *pretty much as good as anyone else's*.
Indeed, you point out something important here: The clause was an "inseverability" clause but that DOES NOT MEAN it can't be severed. A judge might sever it! He might pronounce it unduly burdensome and unfair to the married couples statewide, and simply remove it.
You can rest assured that in NEW YORK, of all places, a most savagely spirited defense of the gay couples will ensue if any nonsense occurs legally. It will be fought like few knock-down-drag-out fights you've ever seen. It is *probable* that marriage equality is here to stay, and that it won't be gone without such a fight that it would cause the anti-gay serious blood pressure problems.
There's really no way that someone can realistically challenge the new Marriage Equality Law. It was passed by the legislature, and signed into law by the governor. It does not violate the New York Constitution, nor the U.S. Constitution in any way. Saying "Well, I don't lie the law, is not a valid legal argument to somehow have the law overturned. This law is going to be on the books a LONG time. There is simply no way to do away with it now THANK GOD.

I think our main efforts now should be to challenge the federal DOMA statute in as many different jurisdictions as practical, in the hopes of overtrning it, getting it repealed, or hasten it's legal jorney to SCOTUS. DOMA is CLEARLY unconstitutional, and even Justice Antonin Scalia, arguable the MOST conservative justice on SCOTUS, and certainly no friend to gay and lesbian Americans, has publicly said that DOMA is "probably unconstitutional. Because it obviously IS !
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#14 Jun 27, 2011
Frank Stanton wrote:
<quoted text>
There's really no way that someone can realistically challenge the new Marriage Equality Law. It was passed by the legislature, and signed into law by the governor. It does not violate the New York Constitution, nor the U.S. Constitution in any way. Saying "Well, I don't lie the law, is not a valid legal argument to somehow have the law overturned. This law is going to be on the books a LONG time. There is simply no way to do away with it now THANK GOD.
I think our main efforts now should be to challenge the federal DOMA statute in as many different jurisdictions as practical, in the hopes of overtrning it, getting it repealed, or hasten it's legal jorney to SCOTUS. DOMA is CLEARLY unconstitutional, and even Justice Antonin Scalia, arguable the MOST conservative justice on SCOTUS, and certainly no friend to gay and lesbian Americans, has publicly said that DOMA is "probably unconstitutional. Because it obviously IS !
Endlessly, savagely fighting on as many fronts as possible, even with multiplicative (is that the right word? lol) and duplicative lawsuits, I AM ALL FOR.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#15 Jun 27, 2011
hi hi wrote:
<quoted text>
Endlessly, savagely fighting on as many fronts as possible, even with multiplicative (is that the right word? lol) and duplicative lawsuits, I AM ALL FOR.
and it's such a shame that so much money is being soaked up by people who claim to be "patriotic Americans". The FRC must be going nuts. They lost in NY and Scotus this week.

Thank God!
Supercalafradgel istic

Valley, AL

#16 Jun 27, 2011
Heads up New York. Your ego might lead you to think you influence the country but it isnt so.

Uh oh, Texas just passed you as the nations 2nd largest economy. Keep putting those hyper-regulatory and high-taxing policies and laws in the books. Then the rest of the country can get the good companies and the homosexuals can migrate to NY.
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#17 Jun 28, 2011
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>and it's such a shame that so much money is being soaked up by people who claim to be "patriotic Americans". The FRC must be going nuts. They lost in NY and Scotus this week.
Thank God!
The mind-bogglingly hateful anti-gay people connected with proposition 8 have, hold onto your chair,*appealed their request that the case be thrown out*, which is REALLY and BLATANTLY virulent hatred if I ever saw it. They will stop at nothing.
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#18 Jun 28, 2011
Supercalafradgelistic wrote:
Heads up New York. Your ego might lead you to think you influence the country but it isnt so.
Uh oh, Texas just passed you as the nations 2nd largest economy. Keep putting those hyper-regulatory and high-taxing policies and laws in the books. Then the rest of the country can get the good companies and the homosexuals can migrate to NY.
The thing that tipped me off to this being anti-gay wasn't so much the "homosexuals can migrate" comment as something much subtler: Notice the "us vs. them" mentality. The United States will stand or fall by the economy of ALL of its states and ANY FIVE OR TEN STATES contributing to that economy are hugely valuable, period.

There is no need for those states to "compete" unless one is bitterly falling back upon an "us vs. them" mentality.

Indeed, look at this person's location: THE AMERICAN SOUTH, which is much more anti-gay than the NORTHEAST and the WEST. Yeah, I guess you're gonna have to go cry like a redneck because a state just passed marriage equality and you hate knowing that in twenty years the supreme court will FORCE the south to accept marriage equality like it FORCED you to stop owning slaves, like it FORCED to accept desegregation, goddamn backward dumbass.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#19 Jun 28, 2011
hi hi wrote:
<quoted text>
The mind-bogglingly hateful anti-gay people connected with proposition 8 have, hold onto your chair,*appealed their request that the case be thrown out*, which is REALLY and BLATANTLY virulent hatred if I ever saw it. They will stop at nothing.
what a bunch of wackos. They are appealing a motion on a case that hasn't been decided yet, in an attempt to get the case thrown out?
Can you provide a link?
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#20 Jul 8, 2011
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>what a bunch of wackos. They are appealing a motion on a case that hasn't been decided yet, in an attempt to get the case thrown out?
Can you provide a link?
Through google news, this is the first hit I get:

http://www.towleroad.com/2011/06/prop-8-propo...

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#21 Jul 9, 2011
hi hi wrote:
<quoted text>
Through google news, this is the first hit I get:
http://www.towleroad.com/2011/06/prop-8-propo...
IOW Speaker of the House Boehner is spending tax dollars on this case while claiming the Democrats are thee reason for the Budget Crisis.

What a tool.

BTW has anyone found out how much money he is using to defend DOMA? Seems to me that $$$$$$ would be better spent helping Social Security.
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#22 Jul 10, 2011
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>IOW Speaker of the House Boehner is spending tax dollars on this case while claiming the Democrats are thee reason for the Budget Crisis.
What a tool.
BTW has anyone found out how much money he is using to defend DOMA? Seems to me that $$$$$$ would be better spent helping Social Security.
Oh, I can't understand it anymore, but if we don't have literal scumbag idiots in Congress, then *someone* is fighting him on this and *someone* is telling him it is ludicrous to ask for decreased spending when he spends money on this. We're just not hearing about it in the media.

Boehner has LITERALLY ZERO ground to talk about spending cuts when he claims THESE things are "necessary spending." I can't understand rape like that. I do not get it. I try and try and I do not get it. But I do know that this country deserves to fall into ruin if people are so goddamn blatheringly stupid that they don't recognize just how horrifying Boehner's position is. There is literally zero logic in saying, "We must reduce spending" while he spends on something *that is literally, utterly unnecessary*. The end.

“IBM had it right: "Think"”

Since: Mar 07

SF Bay Area Suburbs

#23 Jul 10, 2011
hi hi wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I can't understand it anymore, but if we don't have literal scumbag idiots in Congress, then *someone* is fighting him on this and *someone* is telling him it is ludicrous to ask for decreased spending when he spends money on this. We're just not hearing about it in the media.
Boehner has LITERALLY ZERO ground to talk about spending cuts when he claims THESE things are "necessary spending." I can't understand rape like that. I do not get it. I try and try and I do not get it. But I do know that this country deserves to fall into ruin if people are so goddamn blatheringly stupid that they don't recognize just how horrifying Boehner's position is. There is literally zero logic in saying, "We must reduce spending" while he spends on something *that is literally, utterly unnecessary*. The end.
Boner, McConnell and Kantor are holding the country hostage for partisan gain in the debt ceiling activity. they would rather destroy the country than see the democrats gain anything.

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