Buoyed by wins in other states, Calif...

Buoyed by wins in other states, California gay marriage activists...

There are 31 comments on the Whittier Daily News story from Nov 10, 2012, titled Buoyed by wins in other states, California gay marriage activists.... In it, Whittier Daily News reports that:

John Lewis, right, talks as his husband Stuart Gaffney watches during a rally for the Proposition 8 ruling at the LGBT Center in San Francisco on Feb.

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hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#21 Nov 12, 2012
Again, and I will say this forever and ever (until it changes), I have to admire the conservatives, because they do something the progressives don't: They *do not care* how near zero their chances are, they will still try, and try, and try.

They're now apparently petitioning for SECESSION FROM THE UNITED STATES in 20 or so states nationwide.

This is something progressives would never do, reasoning that their chances were near zero.

I say again and forever, it's not about your chances of achieving something; it's about *standing up for* something even if your chances are near zero. The chances don't matter; in *TODAY'S* climate, it's the belief and the refuse to budge which do.

*shrug* At any rate, I admire their refusal to budge. HOWEVER, and this is the most important part, I say tirelessly that it indicates that progressives *must be as stubborn, unbudging and determined*-- every hour of every day.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#22 Nov 12, 2012
hi hi wrote:
Again, and I will say this forever and ever (until it changes), I have to admire the conservatives, because they do something the progressives don't: They *do not care* how near zero their chances are, they will still try, and try, and try.
They're now apparently petitioning for SECESSION FROM THE UNITED STATES in 20 or so states nationwide.
This is something progressives would never do, reasoning that their chances were near zero.
I say again and forever, it's not about your chances of achieving something; it's about *standing up for* something even if your chances are near zero. The chances don't matter; in *TODAY'S* climate, it's the belief and the refuse to budge which do.
*shrug* At any rate, I admire their refusal to budge. HOWEVER, and this is the most important part, I say tirelessly that it indicates that progressives *must be as stubborn, unbudging and determined*-- every hour of every day.
Link please.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#23 Nov 12, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Link please.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-...

The secessionists are, of course, just a few crackpots in each state. No official government bodies have taken action. Even New York has some cranks who filed for secession.

According to the article, they need 25K signatures to make the request official.[I wasn't aware of any such provision for secession.] I'm sure the states that we'd like to keep will not be able to meet that threshold. The rest of them, however: Bye-bye!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#24 Nov 13, 2012
(cleaning CheyTac .408)

Do you think that they will wear butternut this time, too?
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#25 Nov 13, 2012
nhjeff: You are kind; thank you.

The seams are already showing; apparently many state petitions are being signed by people not even living in the state!, but I stand by my point: Those people have *endless zeal* to fight in every way they possibly can.

Even deeming them "nut jobs" falls into a trap, I believe, of dismissing their determination of will, which shows a BELIEF I find admirable. I don't agree with their beliefs, LOL; it's the determination. People like that are often dismissed ...

... like NOM repeatedly was, and look what happened with that. Surely, surely someone can admit that that was a gigantic blunder on the part of the pro-gay.

I also feel (and it stemmed partly from NOM's activities) that the pro-gay were forced into believing they had to be way too careful, and pussyfoot around. Perhaps that's changing. I will find it impossible to endorse most pro-gay actions until it does: You guys have the right to speak your minds and stand by your convictions without apologizing for *anything*, without even blinking or flinching.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#26 Nov 13, 2012
hi hi wrote:
nhjeff: You are kind; thank you.
The seams are already showing; apparently many state petitions are being signed by people not even living in the state!, but I stand by my point: Those people have *endless zeal* to fight in every way they possibly can.
Even deeming them "nut jobs" falls into a trap, I believe, of dismissing their determination of will, which shows a BELIEF I find admirable. I don't agree with their beliefs, LOL; it's the determination. People like that are often dismissed ...
... like NOM repeatedly was, and look what happened with that. Surely, surely someone can admit that that was a gigantic blunder on the part of the pro-gay.
I also feel (and it stemmed partly from NOM's activities) that the pro-gay were forced into believing they had to be way too careful, and pussyfoot around. Perhaps that's changing. I will find it impossible to endorse most pro-gay actions until it does: You guys have the right to speak your minds and stand by your convictions without apologizing for *anything*, without even blinking or flinching.
We survive and proceed by means of coalitions and allies.

In-your-face tactics only impress those who already agree with you.

We've ridden this merry-go-round before. So far, we've caught a brass ring for DADTDP and several States.

I will continue to speak truth to stupid "without flinching", but I will also moderate my tone and approach for onlookers who may end up as allies, AND I will pick my battles.
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#27 Nov 14, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
We survive and proceed by means of coalitions and allies.
In-your-face tactics only impress those who already agree with you.
We've ridden this merry-go-round before. So far, we've caught a brass ring for DADTDP and several States.
I will continue to speak truth to stupid "without flinching", but I will also moderate my tone and approach for onlookers who may end up as allies, AND I will pick my battles.
Part of the reason I am repetitive without even thinking is that I've grown too alarmed at how my points are misunderstood (another part of the reason is below). The misunderstandings are extremely repetitive, and so I respond in kind. You and I have even personally been over this before and you're still saying the same things which misapprehend my points (or so it appears). Logic of the most basic kind would dictate that I know what I'm advocating, and therefore it comes as a surprise to me when you repeat to me what *I* think -- as if you're saying something different from me.

In other words, what you've just said, I agree with.

My emphasis -- for logical reasons; I have also said this over, and over, and over -- is on the virulently antigay. They're the ones who won't budge. They're the ones causing you ninety-five percent or more of the problems you have. Like clockwork. With a repetitive stubbornness and refusal to budge which I now classify easily as mental illness (neurosis; I should clarify). The fence-sitters aren't causing you problems; the problems originate with the viciously antigay.

Nearly all of the problems.

I'm telling you, mark my words; the internet limits us. In person, these misunderstandings would not be occurring; I have never said it but I will say it this once: I get agreement and relief and thanks so regularly and so predictably that I know for a *FACT* it's the internet which somehow "miscommunicates" the point. Why do you think I so boldly repeat myself all the time? Because I know for a fact I'm right, and that (no fault of yours, no fault of anyone else) I am being misunderstood *online*. I think it's possible that "sheeple" gets it; I don't know. I don't try to know anymore.

As the state marriage equality wins just demonstrated, underlining my point, your problem is not with potential allies. It is with those who are using every underhanded tactic in the book to sabotage you. And I continue to state ad infinitum that the pro-gay are not dealing with those individuals *nearly* viciously enough. There's way too much of an implication that they are to be ignored rather than battled.

Your emphasis is on the positive side of advocacy and continuing to change hearts and minds; I agree with that, and *add thereto* as a vital adjunct the following: battling the antigay as savagely as they sabotage you.

Perhaps I am grandly mistaking you and you TOTALLY get what I mean and simply flat-out disagree; then we flat-out disagree. At least you are relatively good-hearted enough not to try to stop those who disagree. That may be a moot point, though; I'm barely here anymore.

In the pit of me, I believe in justice and these antigay lies cannot go unpunished and the way the pro-gay are handling them so offends me morally that I can't be an active part of all this anymore; but you see, that comes off as an indictment, when I am simply saying, I need to be left out of it. Unable to change it and unable to wield influence, I am literally -- as funny as it may sound, literally!-- proud to stand aside and do nothing, which is why I defend that so fiercely: It comes from what I believe to be a deeply moral place.

All of which omits that I admire YOUR method: I simply can't do it without that adjunct. I end up too profoundly disturbed, day after day. That's all.

If you are who you purport to be, then the best part of all is, you will very kindly understand.:D
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#28 Nov 14, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
All apologies; I omitted your text so mine would fit.
Part of the reason I am repetitive without even thinking is that I've grown too alarmed at how my points are misunderstood (another part of the reason is below). The misunderstandings are extremely repetitive, and so I respond in kind. You and I have even personally been over this before and you're still saying the same things which misapprehend my points (or so it appears). Logic of the most basic kind would dictate that I know what I'm advocating, and therefore it comes as a surprise to me when you repeat to me what *I* think -- as if you're saying something different from me.

In other words, what you've just said, I agree with.

My emphasis -- for logical reasons; I have also said this over, and over, and over -- is on the virulently antigay. They're the ones who won't budge. They're the ones causing you ninety-five percent or more of the problems you have. Like clockwork. With a repetitive stubbornness and refusal to budge which I now classify easily as mental illness (neurosis; I should clarify). The fence-sitters aren't causing you problems; the problems originate with the viciously antigay.

Nearly all of the problems.

I'm telling you, mark my words; the internet limits us. In person, these misunderstandings would not be occurring; I have never said it but I will say it this once: I get agreement and relief and thanks so regularly and so predictably that I know for a *FACT* it's the internet which somehow "miscommunicates" the point. Why do you think I so boldly repeat myself all the time? Because I know for a fact I'm right, and that (no fault of yours, no fault of anyone else) I am being misunderstood *online*. I think it's possible that "sheeple" gets it; I don't know. I don't try to know anymore.

As the state marriage equality wins just demonstrated, underlining my point, your problem is not with potential allies. It is with those who are using every underhanded tactic in the book to sabotage you. And I continue to state ad infinitum that the pro-gay are not dealing with those individuals *nearly* viciously enough. There's way too much of an implication that they are to be ignored rather than battled.

Your emphasis is on the positive side of advocacy and continuing to change hearts and minds; I agree with that, and *add thereto* as a vital adjunct the following: battling the antigay as savagely as they sabotage you.

Perhaps I am grandly mistaking you and you TOTALLY get what I mean and simply flat-out disagree; then we flat-out disagree. At least you are relatively good-hearted enough not to try to stop those who disagree. That may be a moot point, though; I'm barely here anymore.

In the pit of me, I believe in justice and these antigay lies cannot go unpunished and the way the pro-gay are handling them so offends me morally that I can't be an active part of all this anymore; but you see, that comes off as an indictment, when I am simply saying, I need to be left out of it. Unable to change it and unable to wield influence, I am literally -- as funny as it may sound, literally!-- proud to stand aside and do nothing, which is why I defend that so fiercely: It comes from what I believe to be a deeply moral place.

All of which omits that I admire YOUR method: I simply can't do it without that adjunct. I end up too profoundly disturbed, day after day. That's all.

If you are who you purport to be, then the best part of all is, you will very kindly understand.:D
hi hi

Philadelphia, PA

#29 Nov 14, 2012
I never wanted to say the above because it sounds like I'm indicting others; this is too repetitive, back and forth, back and forth; so there's my explanation. That's why I'm *really* behaving and reacting as I do, at the bare-bones level. It indicts no one; it simply explains what I see, and why I react as I do. It even ADMIRES others for their methods, but cannot take part. That is all.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#30 Nov 14, 2012
hi hi wrote:
<quoted text>
Part of the reason I am repetitive without even thinking is that I've grown too alarmed at how my points are misunderstood (another part of the reason is below). The misunderstandings are extremely repetitive, and so I respond in kind. You and I have even personally been over this before and you're still saying the same things which misapprehend my points (or so it appears). Logic of the most basic kind would dictate that I know what I'm advocating, and therefore it comes as a surprise to me when you repeat to me what *I* think -- as if you're saying something different from me.
In other words, what you've just said, I agree with.
My emphasis -- for logical reasons; I have also said this over, and over, and over -- is on the virulently antigay. They're the ones who won't budge. They're the ones causing you ninety-five percent or more of the problems you have. Like clockwork. With a repetitive stubbornness and refusal to budge which I now classify easily as mental illness (neurosis; I should clarify). The fence-sitters aren't causing you problems; the problems originate with the viciously antigay.
Nearly all of the problems.
I'm telling you, mark my words; the internet limits us. In person, these misunderstandings would not be occurring; I have never said it but I will say it this once: I get agreement and relief and thanks so regularly and so predictably that I know for a *FACT* it's the internet which somehow "miscommunicates" the point. Why do you think I so boldly repeat myself all the time? Because I know for a fact I'm right, and that (no fault of yours, no fault of anyone else) I am being misunderstood *online*. I think it's possible that "sheeple" gets it; I don't know. I don't try to know anymore.
As the state marriage equality wins just demonstrated, underlining my point, your problem is not with potential allies. It is with those who are using every underhanded tactic in the book to sabotage you. And I continue to state ad infinitum that the pro-gay are not dealing with those individuals *nearly* viciously enough. There's way too much of an implication that they are to be ignored rather than battled.
Your emphasis is on the positive side of advocacy and continuing to change hearts and minds; I agree with that, and *add thereto* as a vital adjunct the following: battling the antigay as savagely as they sabotage you.
Perhaps I am grandly mistaking you and you TOTALLY get what I mean and simply flat-out disagree; then we flat-out disagree. At least you are relatively good-hearted enough not to try to stop those who disagree. That may be a moot point, though; I'm barely here anymore.
In the pit of me, I believe in justice and these antigay lies cannot go unpunished and the way the pro-gay are handling them so offends me morally that I can't be an active part of all this anymore; but you see, that comes off as an indictment, when I am simply saying, I need to be left out of it. Unable to change it and unable to wield influence, I am literally -- as funny as it may sound, literally!-- proud to stand aside and do nothing, which is why I defend that so fiercely: It comes from what I believe to be a deeply moral place.
All of which omits that I admire YOUR method: I simply can't do it without that adjunct. I end up too profoundly disturbed, day after day. That's all.
If you are who you purport to be, then the best part of all is, you will very kindly understand.:D
We DO agree on the situation. I just have to adjust my approach to my character and my abilities.

Very soon, I won't be here on TOPIX at all. I am taking up some very different responsibilities, and internet access will be limited, as will the context in which to use it.

One thing of which I am certain. While occasionally impatient, course and gruff, I am not abusive. I can be chillingly logical, too.

Just saying.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#31 Nov 15, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
We DO agree on the situation. I just have to adjust my approach to my character and my abilities.
Very soon, I won't be here on TOPIX at all. I am taking up some very different responsibilities, and internet access will be limited, as will the context in which to use it.
One thing of which I am certain. While occasionally impatient, course and gruff, I am not abusive. I can be chillingly logical, too.
Just saying.
Do tell us about your next challenge. We will miss your voice.

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