Gay marriage

Full story: Los Angeles Times

The U.S. Supreme Court is considering two controversial cases involving whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry: Proposition 8, California's 2008 ban on gay marriage, and the Defense of Marriage Act, which since 1996 has defined marriage for federal purposes as a union between a man and a woman.

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“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

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#4274
Jun 25, 2013
 
"In fact, record of the payment was only uncovered Friday when the pro-gay rights Human Rights Campaign was sent a private IRS filing from NOM via a whistleblower. The Human Rights Campaign shared the filing with The Huffington Post."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/mitt...

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

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#4276
Jun 25, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
I never claimed the IRS targeted ONLY conservative groups, I claimed they targeted conservative groups
Which is it Brian, you did claim they targeted the groups, or you didn't. You seem to want to have it both ways. In addition to being fundamentally incorrect as far as your assertion regarding form 990 Schedule B's for political organizations (of which, NOM is one) you have also failed to prove a conspiracy by the IRS to target any political groups. The reality is that there are campaign finance laws, Citizens United opened the door for massive potential abuse, and the IRS is rightly investigating groups, both liberal and conservative, to ensure that the rules are being complied with. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/irs-...

You can't fundamentally prove that the IRS has done anything but it's job, which is essentially what came out during Rep. Issa's witch hunt. Why do you think this issue went away so quickly? It's because they were doing exactly what they are supposed to do.
Brian_G wrote:
and leaked confidential tax return information in violation of law. Also note, if the IRS made the schedule B "available to the public", they are in violation of the regulation quoted by lides above; only the filer makes tax filings available, not leakers, the HRC with their excuse of another source or the Huffington Post.
Find the regulation kiddo, otherwise you're out of gas.
"Tax-exempt political organizations may also be required to file Form 990 , including Schedule B. Political organizations must make both of these forms available to the public, including the contributor information." http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eo_disclosure...

How does it feel to be used as a shill to post and re-post misinformation because you have been lied to, not by the IRS, but by NOM and Rep. Issa.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#4277
Jun 25, 2013
 
Was it a conspiracy involving the White House, as lides suggests? I don't think that matters, first justice by prosecuting the guilty, then we can get the defense's stories.

I don't blame Obama, I blame liberalism.

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Since: Jan 08

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#4278
Jun 25, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
"In fact, record of the payment was only uncovered Friday when the pro-gay rights Human Rights Campaign was sent a private IRS filing from NOM via a whistleblower. The Human Rights Campaign shared the filing with The Huffington Post."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/mitt...
You do realize that this undermines your entire argument, don't you sparky?

HRC already reported the issue using the FEC filing last year. http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/one-of-noms-top...

You keep claiming that this information was attained through IRS misconduct, but this article states it was released by a whistle blower.

I didn't think it was possible for you to look any dumber. It's funny when you undermine your own argument. Congratulations. Well played.

“No Headline available”

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#4279
Jun 25, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
Was it a conspiracy involving the White House, as lides suggests? I don't think that matters, first justice by prosecuting the guilty, then we can get the defense's stories.
I don't blame Obama, I blame liberalism.
You are an idiot. You ahve never substantiated your claims of wrongdoing, and you frequently air your ignorance of what forms are confidential in the first place. NOM's very mission statement proves that they, in fact, are a political organization, and as such their form 990 Schedule B is public information. What is more, even if it weren't, you ahve yet to establish that the information was leaked by the IRS, and not by an appalled NOM staffer. NOM did not report this income on their filings, which is itself criminal.

http://thinkprogress.org/tag/human-rights-cam...
Hatch Parrots Anti-Gay NOM’s Self-Victimizing Talking Points
By Zack Ford on May 9, 2012 at 4:30 pm

"Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) has the back of the National Organization for Marriage. In a letter to IRS Commissioner Doglas H. Shulman this week, he called for an investigation into the leak of NOM’s 2008 Schedule B, which revealed some of the anti-equality group’s top donors, including Mitt Romney. Hatch’s letter parrots the same conspiracy-mongering rhetoric that NOM has been pushing:

The public 2009 and 2010 forms do not include confidential donor information. Moreover, unlike the 2009 and 2010 public 990s, the 2008 Schedule B published by HRC and Huffington Post is a PDF document that appears to have been deliberately altered in a manner to obscure information that would identify its origins with the IRS. First, the 2008 Schedule B appears to have been cropped in order to hide a stamp appearing across the top of each page that states,“THIS IS A COPY OF A LIVE RETURN FROM SMIP. OFFICIAL USE ONLY.” Second, a white rectangle appears diagonally across the middle of each page of the document at issue — a redaction that hides a number that appears to have been generated by the IRS.

Blogger David Cary Hart has already debunked NOM’s “proof” that the documents had to have originated from the IRS. http://www.slowlyboiledfrog.com/2012/04/nomnu... When the Human Rights Campaign and Huffington Post originally reported on the leak, they attributed the document to a whistleblower within NOM. Because it seems that Romney’s contribution was not properly disclosed, it’s likely that NOM’s cries for an investigation are an attempt to distract attention from their potential lawbreaking. http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/04/05/4591...

Hatch faces a primary challenge from former Utah state Sen. Dan Liljenquist and has been swinging to the right to appeal to his base. Though polling overwhelmingly favors Hatch, this may explain why he’s endorsed NOM’s attempt to avoid taking responsibility for its misdeeds and its possible whistleblower."

At best, Brian, your arguments are pathetic.
Rational Evolutionist

Saint Paul, MN

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Jun 25, 2013
 

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Thesis: Humans have evolved with certain inborn inhibitions that biologically serve to promote the preservation of the Homo Sapien species, and improve the chance of successful reproduction and the genetic diversity, health, and survivability of their offspring.

For centuries, anthropologists and biologists studying different human tribes, ethnic groups, cultures, and civilizations have observed that humans, and lesser evolved mammals, overwhelmingly avoid certain behaviors regardless of environment, available resources, or social context. The instinctual behaviors include but are not limited to: interspecies mating, intergenerational mating, and close family inbreeding.

The fact that these three behaviors are universally avoided regardless of geography, religion or culture suggests they are restrained by instincts that serve a useful and evolutionary purpose. Consider the scientific rational for the following generally avoided behaviors:

Inter-species mating (interbreeding): Mammals are biologically hardwired to avoid mating with other mammalian species because of anatomic incompatibility and failure to procreate. This instinct protects the continuation of a species by restricting sexual drive to anatomically compatible mating partners of the same mammalian group. Without this biological instinct, mammals would erroneously seek out incompatible species for reproduction, fail to reproduce, and threaten the existence of their own species.

Intergenerational mating: Fertile mammals, including humans, instinctually avoid mating with infertile members of the opposite sex. Physical aging provides a useful biological purpose, which is to signal fertility and help mammals direct their sexual drive to members that offer the best chance of reproductive success. This explains why human males would prefer to copulate with a young woman rather than a post-menopausal woman. Without this hard-wired preference, mammals would erroneously direct their sexual drive towards infertile mates (including the sexually un/under-developed), fail to reproduce, and threaten the existence of their own species.

Close-Family Inbreeding: Mammals, including primates, instinctually avoid mating with close kin (such as the mother, father, and sibling) and instead seek out partners outside of the nuclear family to secure the genetic diversity and health of their offspring. Without this innate instinct, mammals would misdirect their sexual drive to close relatives, produce genetically “defective” offspring, and threaten the adaptability and survival of future generations.

It has been universally observed that humans have developed strong cultural taboos against bestiality (inter-species mating), wide-gap intergenerational mating, and incest. Many religions ascribe meaning to these inborn instincts and interpret them as “God’s laws.”

While many evolutionists don’t ascribe any cultural meaning to these inhibitions, they do recognize their profound biological function and evolutionary purpose.

Considering the reasons provided herein, if you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexual copulation- understand that your sentiment is not prejudicial (i.e. homophobic) but biological. Your sentiment is based on a natural procreative instinct that for millions of years has served to ensure humanity’s propagation. Social conditioning and acculturation alone may not be enough to reverse this normal physiological hardwiring.

“No Headline available”

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#4281
Jun 25, 2013
 

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Rational Evolutionist wrote:
Considering the reasons provided herein, if you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexual copulation- understand that your sentiment is not prejudicial (i.e. homophobic) but biological.
This was dumb the first time you posted it, it is still dumb now. If you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexuality, then you are an irrational bigot, or a closet case.
anonymous

Barberton, OH

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#4282
Jun 25, 2013
 

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lides wrote:
<quoted text>
This was dumb the first time you posted it, it is still dumb now. If you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexuality, then you are an irrational bigot, or a closet case.
...And the sugar plum fairy is still out waving his wand and labeling people everywhere with his prejudicial labels.

Nope. This discussion hasn't moved towards anything rational yet.
Why didn't you just parse out his post into little bits that you could attack with your usual casual sound bites that completely ignore the continuity of biological strategy?

You know you want to! USE IT! You WILL USE IT!

Since: Mar 11

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#4283
Jun 25, 2013
 

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anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>...And the sugar plum fairy is still out waving his wand and labeling people everywhere with his prejudicial labels.
Nope. This discussion hasn't moved towards anything rational yet.
Why didn't you just parse out his post into little bits that you could attack with your usual casual sound bites that completely ignore the continuity of biological strategy?
You know you want to! USE IT! You WILL USE IT!
what, exactly, is this continuity of biological strategy assumption you have made up?

“Building Better Worlds”

Since: May 13

Europa

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#4284
Jun 25, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>...And the sugar plum fairy is still out waving his wand and labeling people everywhere with his prejudicial labels.
Nope. This discussion hasn't moved towards anything rational yet.
Why didn't you just parse out his post into little bits that you could attack with your usual casual sound bites that completely ignore the continuity of biological strategy?
You know you want to! USE IT! You WILL USE IT!
What the heck is "the continuity of biological strategy" ???

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

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Jun 25, 2013
 

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Europa Report wrote:
What the heck is "the continuity of biological strategy" ???
I think he is referring to "continuity strategy", an element of evolution theory. As species evolve, the newer species retain both biological and psychological aspects of the one they are supplanting. But then again, he does seem to be trying pretty darn desperately to rationalize his irrational bigotry. He may not have even the faintest clue as to what he really means.

Since: Mar 07

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#4286
Jun 25, 2013
 

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Rational Evolutionist wrote:
Thesis:......
Considering the reasons provided herein, if you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexual copulation- understand that your sentiment is not prejudicial .........
Well of course it is. It's a learned behavior. One that many young people are growing up without learning.

Check the polls.

Now, if you are trying to say that straight people don't want to have sex with someone of the same gender because they cannot be sexually attracted to them, and find the idea unappealing, then that's logical, but it applies equally to gay people and and who they are attracted to.

Only a homophobe gets too worked up at the gender someone else can be attracted to. Most people understand themselves well enough not to fret, and gave enough empathy to understand the feelings of others, even if they don't share them.

It's simple, really. And very human.

“Building Better Worlds”

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#4287
Jun 25, 2013
 
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text> I think he is referring to "continuity strategy", an element of evolution theory. As species evolve, the newer species retain both biological and psychological aspects of the one they are supplanting. But then again, he does seem to be trying pretty darn desperately to rationalize his irrational bigotry. He may not have even the faintest clue as to what he really means.
So I should be scared of sparrows because they retain the same biological and psychological aspects of their forebear, T. Rex ?

Since: Mar 11

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#4288
Jun 25, 2013
 
Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
So I should be scared of sparrows because they retain the same biological and psychological aspects of their forebear, T. Rex ?
i don't think sparrows came from the same species line as T. Rex.

the Tyrannosaurs were one of the last non avian dinosaurs...

“Building Better Worlds”

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#4289
Jun 25, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i don't think sparrows came from the same species line as T. Rex.
the Tyrannosaurs were one of the last non avian dinosaurs...
I dispute that they were non-avian. They were in fact VERY avian.

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#4290
Jun 25, 2013
 
Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
I dispute that they were non-avian. They were in fact VERY avian.
how so?

“Building Better Worlds”

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#4291
Jun 25, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>how so?
there is a lot of evidence that dinosaurs, including T. Rex are the ancestors of modern birds.

For one thing, like birds they are warm-blooded, not cold-blooded like reptiles. Also, like birds, they sported feathers. There's slso DNA & protein evidence.

See here: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/...

“No Headline available”

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#4292
Jun 25, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>what, exactly, is this continuity of biological strategy assumption you have made up?
I was done responding to anonymous sometime ago. They put forth disingenuous lies, they have no valid legal, logical, or rational argument for their position. And when you respond to their lengthy posts in specific, they whine like a child about "parsing"., is that they can't defend the individual components of their argument. A competent person could.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#4293
Jun 26, 2013
 
lides believes HRC's cover story, I believe Huffington Post since they published the 2008 Schedule B with IRS processing edits on the web.

Let the FBI investigate.
anonymous

Barberton, OH

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#4294
Jun 26, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>what, exactly, is this continuity of biological strategy assumption you have made up?
The continuity of of biological strategy is something that you'll completely deny no matter the overwhelming evolutionary logic of it.

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