Ark. lawmaker proposes new abortion restriction

Jan 29, 2013 Full story: KTHV-TV Little Rock 357

Arkansas would ban abortions if a fetal heartbeat is detected under a bill introduced by a Republican senator Monday, a proposal that would prohibit the medical procedure as early as six weeks into a pregnancy.

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the real guest

Conway, AR

#26 Feb 2, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
Anyone who supports
1. requiring a woman to gestate at the cost of her own life,
2. mandating a woman wait until natural delivery occurs, before she is allowed to expel a dead fetus, or
3. insisting that a woman deliver a child which will either die shortly afterward or "live" in a vegetative state for what remains of his/her "life"
is a helluva lot sicker.
A woman willingly engaging in sexual intercourse makes those choices for herself.

The issue is whether she should be allowed to participate in slaughtering her unborn baby in the most gruesome manner imaginable simply because she doesn't want to be held responsible for the consequences of her own decision.
Since those 'limb ripping' abortions are only used in the above circumstances, that would be
YOU.
Freak.
Actually those limb ripping procedures are used hundreds of thousands of times every single year in this country. It's barbaric. It's horrific. It's detestable. It's sick.

It's hard for me to imagine anyone supporting something so horrendous.
the real guest

Conway, AR

#27 Feb 2, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
Actually, I think it's completely IDIOTIC to demand that an adult woman, especially if she is married, punish herself with lifetime celibacy just because she may NEVER want children.
No one has advocated that. If she doesn't want children, she can take steps to prevent that, like tubal ligation. She doesn't have to rip her baby's arms and legs off, and then crush its tiny skull.
Then again, I consider anti-choice extremists who say such nonsense to be idiots anyway, so your demands aren't that surprising.
Yeah, well I never made such demands. You've merely built a strawman. And I'm not extreme. Extreme is your position, holding that it's okay for 1.5 million innocent, helpless babies every year be slaughtered in the most gruesome manner imaginable simply because a woman is too wrapped up in herself to be bothered with a life that she is reponsible for.
The fact remains that motherhood IS optional, even if a pregnancy happens.
Yeah, and that's the problem. Too many mental sickos think it's okay for a woman to murder her own baby.
NO woman has to stay pregnant and give birth against her will, and that's a very GOOD thing.
Murdering innocent, helpless little babies by the millions in the most horrendous and gruesome manner imaginable is most certainly not a good thing. Only a sicko would utter such a thing.
You can say "abortion is murder" all you want.
And I will because it's the truth. I have given you the evidence to prove it.
guest

Conway, AR

#28 Feb 2, 2013
LiIrabbitfoofoo wrote:
Riiiiiight. Guess you never heard of rape and incest huh?
That only accounts for a very, very small percentage of the 1.5 million abortions performed every year in this country.

And why is it okay to impose the death penalty on the baby? Why not punish the rapist?
Oh good lord, get a new tune ya freak. How DARE you deman the ACTUAL PEOPLE that died in the holocaust!
I'm not demeaning anyone. I'm merely pointing out that the 55 million babies that have been put to death in this country by abortion since Roe v Wade dwarfs the 6 million put to death in Hitler's concentration camps.
FACT: Abortion is not now, and has NEVER IN US HISTORY been "murder". Nor will it EVER be "murder".
Grow the hell up.
That's not a fact, it's a lie. Abortion is murder and has always been murder. And it's the murder of the most innocent and helpless of all human beings. And it's done in the most barbaric, gruesome and horrendous manner imaginable.

Only mentally sick people could possible support doing that to another human being.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#29 Feb 2, 2013
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>
A woman willingly engaging in sexual intercourse makes those choices for herself.
When you can show me how a man engaging in sexual intercourse automatically chooses to accept a myriad of possible health problems, some of which are life-threatening, you might have a leg to stand on here.

Here's a PARTIAL list:

complications of episiotomy
spousal/partner abuse
hyperemesis gravidarum
temporary and permanent injury to back
severe scarring requiring later surgery
(especially after additional pregnancies)
dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
gestational diabetes
placenta previa
anemia (which can be life-threatening)
thrombocytopenic purpura
severe cramping
embolism (blood clots)
medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
hormonal imbalance
ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
hemorrhage and
numerous other complications of delivery
refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
severe post-partum depression and psychosis
research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

Less common (but serious) complications:

peripartum cardiomyopathy
cardiopulmonary arrest
magnesium toxicity
severe hypoxemia/acidosis
massive embolism
increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease
(like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
malignant arrhythmia
circulatory collapse
placental abruption
obstetric fistula

More permanent side effects:

future infertility
permanent disability
death.

But as usual.......that would be a 'no'.

As long as men don't risk pregnancy with every act of intercourse, why should we be obliged to stay pregnant if we don't want to be?

We aren't.
Period

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#30 Feb 2, 2013
The vast MAJORITY of women gestate, keep, and lovingly raise our children.
If men could get pregnant, there would be drive-through abortion clinics, and you guys would schedule procedures between rounds of golf.

If you still have functional testes, you're a selfish bastard unless you impregnate your wife with every sex act, isn't that right?

Your hypocrisy and lack of relevance are duly noted.
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually those limb ripping procedures are used hundreds of thousands of times every single year in this country.
That's a bald-faced lie. Those procedures aren't used that often in a decade, across the entire planet, much less here every year. The number of yearly second and third trimester abortions in this country, is actually in the hundreds - NOT 'hundreds of thousands'- and they are used to save lives. They are otherwise ILLEGAL, and obstetricians aren't stupid; nor are they monsters. They're DOCTORS. No doctor (including Dr. Tiller, by the way, who freakbags like you saw fit to kill in his CHURCH)'kills babies' on a whim.

You don't have a leg to stand on, and disingenuous hyperbole isn't going to help your case.
the real guest wrote:
It's barbaric. It's horrific. It's detestable. It's sick.
Enforced gestation, state-sanctioned instrumental rape, and stripping pregnant women of our Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness when we are pregnant. Barbaric. Horrific. Detestable. And unconscionable.

Which is why abortion is legal in the US, and will stay that way.

the real guest wrote:
It's hard for me to imagine anyone supporting something so horrendous.
Dude - it's hard for you to imagine that God gave women a sex drive every bit as strong as a man's, that women often have sex for pleasure and no other reason, just exactly like men do, or that women have the same right to bodily autonomy, self-defense, and personal risk assessment, that you do.

But apparently it's EASY for you to imagine that a woman contemplating abortion, might as well be deciding what color of nail polish to wear that day.

That fact says more about YOU than it does about us.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#31 Feb 2, 2013
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
That only accounts for a very, very small percentage of the 1.5 million abortions performed every year in this country.
And why is it okay to impose the death penalty on the baby? Why not punish the rapist?
<quoted text>
I'm not demeaning anyone. I'm merely pointing out that the 55 million babies that have been put to death in this country by abortion since Roe v Wade dwarfs the 6 million put to death in Hitler's concentration camps.
<quoted text>
That's not a fact, it's a lie. Abortion is murder and has always been murder. And it's the murder of the most innocent and helpless of all human beings. And it's done in the most barbaric, gruesome and horrendous manner imaginable.
Only mentally sick people could possible support doing that to another human being.
Cry me a river.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again:
Every child should be a wanted child.

As long as there is even one abandoned, exploited, molested, abused, neglected, ignored, or unloved BORN CHILD in the world, abortion is NECESSARY, and will remain legal.

Legal killing is not, and never will be,'murder'.

Suck it up, buttercup.
Ocean56

AOL

#32 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
A woman willingly engaging in sexual intercourse makes those choices for herself.
The issue is whether she should be allowed to participate in slaughtering her unborn baby in the most gruesome manner imaginable simply because she doesn't want to be held responsible for the consequences of her own decision.
Riiiiiiiiiight, you want to see women PUNISHED with forced gestation and birth simply because she consented to have sex. We got that already. The thing is, a woman DOES decide what to do about a pregnancy for herself, goofy. You just don't like it when she makes a decision YOU don't like or approve of. Too bad.

Motherhood is OPTIONAL, not required, even if a pregnancy happens. A woman can reject motherhood for any number of reasons, including the most basic one; she DOESN'T want to be a mother. The fact that YOU disapprove of her rejecting motherhood is irrelevant.
Ocean56

AOL

#33 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
No one has advocated that. If she doesn't want children, she can take steps to prevent that, like tubal ligation. She doesn't have to rip her baby's arms and legs off, and then crush its tiny skull.
Many women DO take steps to prevent unwanted pregnancy, including tubal ligation. However, ALL contraceptive methods can and DO fail occasionally, and not all women want to have surgery. Also, there are doctors who refuse to do a tubal ligation procedure on women who are very young and have no children, even if the woman tells them she NEVER wants any children.

So it's not as easy for a woman to have a tubal done as you would have everyone believe. In any case, it is still the WOMAN's decision whether or not to continue a pregnancy, and if it isn't YOUR pregnancy, it isn't your decision.
the real guest

Conway, AR

#34 Feb 3, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
As long as men don't risk pregnancy with every act of intercourse, why should we be obliged to stay pregnant if we don't want to be?
It's your choice to engage in sexual intercourse and assume the possible consequences of doing so. It has nothing to do with men.

You're trying to justify the unjustifiable. Nothing makes it okay for you to murder your own baby.
the real guest

Conway, AR

#35 Feb 3, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
stripping pregnant women of our Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness when we are pregnant.
You have no constitutional right to murder your own baby. And what of the baby's right to life?
it's hard for you to imagine that God gave women a sex drive every bit as strong as a man's, that women often have sex for pleasure and no other reason
It's not hard for me to imagine that at all. It is hard for me to imagine a woman so cold, so unfeeling and so damn selfish that she would willingly butcher her own baby. That's just sick.
the real guest

Conway, AR

#36 Feb 3, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
However, ALL contraceptive methods can and DO fail occasionally, and not all women want to have surgery.
That's true, but a woman already knows that, and assumes the risk of pregnancy when she chooses to engage in sexual intercourse. And it's the same for a man. If a woman becomes pregnant, he too is liable for meeting the needs of that baby until it reaches adulthood.

You just want a woman to avoid the consequences of her choices by murdering her own baby.

The baby's life far outweighs the woman's selfishness.
Ocean56

AOL

#37 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
It's your choice to engage in sexual intercourse and assume the possible consequences of doing so. It has nothing to do with men.
Sorry, goofy (not really), but NO woman has to be PUNISHED with forced gestation and birth, no matter how much you WANT her to be punished. Motherhood is OPTIONAL, not required, which means a woman can reject it for any reason(s). That YOU disapprove of a woman's rejecting motherhood is irrelevant.

Personally, I am very grateful for the availability of reliable contraception which has kept me pregnancy-FREE the last 15+ years. For me, the idea of getting pregnant again SUCKS, and I so love NOT being pregnant.
Ocean56

AOL

#38 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
That's true, but a woman already knows that, and assumes the risk of pregnancy when she chooses to engage in sexual intercourse. And it's the same for a man. If a woman becomes pregnant, he too is liable for meeting the needs of that baby until it reaches adulthood.
You just want a woman to avoid the consequences of her choices by murdering her own baby. The baby's life far outweighs the woman's selfishness.
It is obvious to me that you just want to see any woman who has consensual sex PUNISHED by being forced to stay pregnant and give birth against her will. Tough luck for you; she ISN'T.

NO woman has to stay pregnant and become a mother unless she WANTS to do so. If a woman chooses to reject motherhood for any reason, that's entirely HER decision and none of your business.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#39 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>
It's your choice to engage in sexual intercourse and assume the possible consequences of doing so. It has nothing to do with men.
Now who's trying to avoid responsibility?

You're hilarious.
the real guest wrote:
You're trying to justify the unjustifiable. Nothing makes it okay for you to murder your own baby.
The whole thing is, that I don't HAVE to 'justify' my rights to self-defense, personal risk assessment, or bodily autonomy, any more than YOU do.

AND IT CHAPS YOUR ASS.

Abortion, in the first trimester, and a good chunk of the second, will always be legal in this country, for whatever reason the woman deems it necessary.
Get over it.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#40 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no constitutional right to murder your own baby.
Fortunately, you are completely wrong here. Women have the Constitutional right to live, to be free from oppression, and to pursue happiness, just as men do. And abortion is not murder - it is LEGAL killing, exactly as it's legal to kill an intruder into one's home.
the real guest wrote:
And what of the baby's right to life?
That right begins when the fetus becomes a baby...a born human. Read the Constitution: a citizen is BORN or naturalized in the United States. Says nothing in that document about having been gestated here.
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not hard for me to imagine that at all. It is hard for me to imagine a woman so cold, so unfeeling and so damn selfish that she would willingly butcher her own baby. That's just sick.
It's hard for me to imagine anyone bent on preventing a woman from saving her life with a necessary medical procedure.......but I guess it takes all kinds to make a world.

Without the one which saved mine, I wouldn't have been alive to become a mother to two beautiful sons. I don't regret my abortion, and if faced with the same circumstances, I'd have another one.
With a quickness.

Have a day now, ya hear?

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#41 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>
It's your choice to engage in sexual intercourse and assume the possible consequences of doing so. It has nothing to do with men.
You're trying to justify the unjustifiable. Nothing makes it okay for you to murder your own baby.
No one needs to justify making their own medical decisions.

As far as sex, consent to have sex is not consent to carry a resulting pregnancy to term.

What constitutes dealing with the consequences is up to the pregnant woman, not you.

Abortion is not murder, but your melodrama is duly noted.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#42 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no constitutional right to murder your own baby. And what of the baby's right to life?
<quoted text>
It's not hard for me to imagine that at all. It is hard for me to imagine a woman so cold, so unfeeling and so damn selfish that she would willingly butcher her own baby. That's just sick.
A fetus has no constitutional rights.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#43 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>
And that exact same advice is a good idea for a woman of any age who does not want to become pregnant or contract an STD.
The question is what to do when she engages in risky behavior that results in something she doesn't want. Should she be allowed to commit murder to avoid the consequences of her own actions?
If you say yes, then what's the difference between her doing that and me murdering you and taking all of your property so I don't have to live with the consequences of my choice to drop out of high school and hold a steady job?
OK...MEMO TO ALL MARRIED WOMEN:

If you have given birth to all the children YOU wish to have close up shop and tell the old man to "Go Fook Himself" the sex is OVER! You will NOT engage in RISKY BEHAVIOR! YOU are not willing to risk an unwanted pregnancy do to HIS desire for sex....IT IS OVER BUDDY!

Signed,

Your Loving Wife

What is the difference between you murdering me in a robbery? The right to self defense and self protection ya moron which could end up with you six feet under. Obviously you consider women void of all rights.

YOU are a perpetual dumb azz.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#44 Feb 3, 2013
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
And why is it okay to impose the death penalty on the baby? Why not punish the rapist?

I'm not demeaning anyone.
You just DID demean any woman/girl who became or becomes pregnant by rape. You eliminated her ENTIRELY from the rape scenario as though she does not exist. You have made her into a inanimate object.

You are a perpetual dumb azz.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#45 Feb 3, 2013
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>The baby's life far outweighs the woman's selfishness.
Tell it to the men who impregnate women as rapists, and then, in some states, retain the right to visitation with the product of THEIR selfishness. As long as there are men who are selfish enough to force women to have sexual intercourse, there will be abortion. As long as pregnancy poses grave risks to a woman's health, there will be abortion. As long as women miscarry, there will be abortion - actually, spontaneous abortion ('miscarriage') affects one out of three pregnancies, worldwide. Not every pregnancy comes to term, with or without 'help' from the woman carrying it.

Fact.
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>
That's true, but a woman already knows that, and assumes the risk of pregnancy when she chooses to engage in sexual intercourse.
No, thankfully, she does not. Any more than you do. Because in this country, we don't punish people for their choices, by withholding necessary medical treatment. Newsflash: women are people.
Deal with it.
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text> And it's the same for a man. If a woman becomes pregnant, he too is liable for meeting the needs of that baby
Really. Show me the biological / health risks he takes when he impregnates a woman. Show me the law, any law, anywhere, which mandates that a man take ANY responsibility for a pregnancy.

He is only responsible AFTERWARDS, and then only if the pregnancy results in a live birth.
Period.

A man risks exactly NOTHING during a woman's pregnancy. The woman takes all the risk, ALL OF IT, and she has the right to decline it all, as well.

(and as we all know, that chaps your ass...)

the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>until it reaches adulthood.
You, my friend, are the classic fetus sniffer...you couldn't care less about LIFE. The only thing concerning YOU is the contents of someone else's uterus. What happens once it exits that uterus, is immaterial to you, as long as it comes out according to YOUR timeline, and in a manner of which YOU approve.

Selfish much?
the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>You just want a woman to avoid the consequences of her choices
Fine. Next time you choose to exit your home, knowing full well that buses exist, I reserve the right to deny you life-saving medical treatment when one runs over you, crushing your pelvis, and turning your ribs into toothpicks. We can't have you avoiding the consequences to your choices...

Next time you have a work-related illness or injury, I reserve the right to deny you medical treatment of any kind... because you freely chose to perform the work, knowing it was possible to be injured or become ill as a result. We can't have you avoiding the consequences to your choices...

If you choose to use a gas stove, and you catch your shirt on fire in the process, I reserve the right to deny you cosmetic treatment for your burn scars, because you knew fire could burn you, but you made the choice to use it anyway. Face the consequences to your choices, because 'I' don't approve of the choices you make.

Are you getting my drift here, or do I have to dumb it down even further?

the real guest wrote:
<quoted text>by murdering her own baby.
We've been over this. You're incorrect. Murdering babies is already illegal, and it still happens all the time. Please try to keep up.

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