What's Goin' On: Bears' O raises more questions than it answers

Matt Forte agreed to terms with the Bears Wednesday, and all indications are he'll be the team's starting running back this fall.

[EricBcook]

Just improving the line will improve the running game, and Forte will do fine, and I am pleased with the effort of Adrian Peterson did you realize He had 51 receptions last year(2nd on the team) and 420 receiving yards? This team will be markedly better on offense! How could they do worse? lol

[_DiMz_]

Bears Record last year: 7-9

Reasons Why and How and why they can do same or better:
Slightly revamped and realigned O-line.
A new Runningback that would actually
have to TRY HARDER to be -WORSE- then Benson,
then -BETTER- then Benson.
A WR corp that has a range of characters ranging from the likes of Hester who is playing for a bigger contract and bigger fame to the Lloyds of the world who are virtually playing for there NFL career life to Booker who wants to go out with a bang. Perhaps lighting in a bottle can be captured there (perhaps).
And a very Solid Tight End corp in Olsen and Clarke.
And of course if defense is Healthy, one of the Top 5 in the league...."if" healthy.

Possible Reasons they can do Worse:
QB situation could implode.
Forte doing just "better" then Benson may NOT be enough of an improvement.
Inexperience of a Rookie at LT may hurt the line.
Lack of progression (Hester-Bradley) and execution (Lloyd-Booker) in our WR corp.
Another injury meltdown on Defense.

I think the wildcard here is how there new draft picks perform. I'm going to have to agree with the Vegas line on this one and say an 8-8 season, 9-7 at best, 7-9 at worst.
No superbowl team here in my eyes sadly.

[No_More_Rexcuses]

Once again I have to ask Hoiw is the offensive line better? The loss of R.Brown is really going to hurt. Even him playing with a bum shoulder is better than the tandem of Metcalfe and Garza. And our new LT is a rookie. He might very well turn into a very good tackle but there will be some learning pains! Everyone is so quick to say that Forte is the answer yet I've never seen the guy in an NFL game! He's never even been in a preseason game. Our top 2 receivers from last season are gone and the QB situation is bad.

Our offensive line may actually be worse than it has been and we have an unproven running back and more than likely Rex at QB with receivers that he's unfamiliar with. Booker is a true professional. Hester is still a project (will he learn where to line up?) Bradley has injury history , early is a rookie , Lloyd is another Redskin reject(Archuleta).

Im actually an optomistic person yet everything that I see with this years team spells disaster! My prediction is this....Another year of an inept offense. Maybe worse than last year.(Hopefully Forte and Williams get some good experience) The defense will spend A LOT of time on the field again and injuries will be a problem again on defense. I'd be surprised if the Bears do better than 6-10. Just being realistic! So anyone good coming out in next years draft? We may have a very good pick!

[Rex Is Our Guy]

No_More_Rexcuses wrote:

Once again I have to ask Hoiw is the offensive line better?

There is a lot of truth in what you say, but just so all us Bear fans don't lose hope, I'm going to play the devil's advocate of your vision here.

Yes, the offensive line may not be any better but 3 of the 5 starters have been replaced with younger and stronger players. Being a veteran has little to do with you success on the line. It's how strong you are, and how well you can hold someone off or push them out of the way. All the experience of a veteran in the world won't compensate for a younger and stronger player. Brown wasn't the greatest to be honest. He and Miller alone accounted for more than half the penalties our offensive line through up. We'd have a drive going, be in field goal range, and have back to back false starts, or in Miller's case, punching people, and lose yardage. And being 2nd to last in sacks given up per attempt last year... I don't see how they could do worse. And with the addition of Williams, yes, I'm definitely expecting a stronger and better line this year.

In terms of RB, Benson was horrible. Absolutely horrible. I know the line didn't help him, and the carousel at QB didn't have anyone dropping back in fear of the pass, but the guy just didn't do anything - period. Forte can only go up. When you're trying to raise the bar from 3.2 yards per carry (last in the NFC), not much you can do to be worse. So Forte won't have a lot of pressure to deal with in terms of showing the Bears he can be better than Benson. And with the way rookies are coming out and running now, for example the other Adrian Peterson, I'm excited to see what a youth like Forte has to offer.

And I think letting Berrian and Muhammad go was the best thing for us. Berrian's speed is useless when he leads the team in drops. Rex would've had at least 5 to 6 more TD's in the first 3 games, and probably less INT's had Berrian not screwed him in fighting for passes and holding onto the ball. Muhammad just doesn't get separation anymore period. They're absence gives younger, stronger and hungrier receivers a chance to step up and show what they can do.

How many times do we see guys like Michael Turner and Ahmad Bradshaw step up out of nowhere. Or Boss come in and actually do better for the Giants then Shockey did. Who would've ever guessed that week when the Packers played the Cowboys, that when Brett Favre went out with an injury and had basically sucked for the whole game, that Aaron Rogers would come in and perform better tossing TD's like he'd been doing it all year. Sometimes, the guys you never expect to play well, come in and kick ass.

I think everyone's underestimating the Bears this season. And I think it's going to be great when we demolish the Colts opening night. I think Rex will put up pro bowl numbers. I think Forte will be one of the top RB's in the league this year, and I think our defense will destroy the opposition. I'm looking forward to a new season with new possibilities.

But then again, NMR, everything you say is still 100% correct. But it's too soon to guess. Just wanted to give an alternate side to the argument.

[Jopa-n]

What do you call an offensive coordinator who has Grossman as his QB?
Handicapped with special needs.

[Jopa-n]

What is Rex Grossmans favorite charity?
The NFL Foundation for Defensive backs!

[Bill]

Rex Is Our Guy wrote:

<quoted text>There is a lot of truth in what you say, but just so all us Bear fans don't lose hope, I'm going to play the devil's advocate of your vision here.
..........
..........
But then again, NMR, everything you say is still 100% correct. But it's too soon to guess. Just wanted to give an alternate side to the argument.

.

You certainly did!!

To paraphrase some guy it Washington ---------- Where does irrational exuberance end,.... and rational thinking begin???

Are you, by any chance, a Cub's fan?

.

[_DiMz_]

No_More_Rexcuses wrote:

Once again I have to ask Hoiw is the offensive line better? The loss of R.Brown is really going to hurt. Even him playing with a bum shoulder is better than the tandem of Metcalfe and Garza. And our new LT is a rookie. He might very well turn into a very good tackle but there will be some learning pains! Everyone is so quick to say that Forte is the answer yet I've never seen the guy in an NFL game! He's never even been in a preseason game. Our top 2 receivers from last season are gone and the QB situation is bad.
Our offensive line may actually be worse than it has been and we have an unproven running back and more than likely Rex at QB with receivers that he's unfamiliar with. Booker is a true professional. Hester is still a project (will he learn where to line up?) Bradley has injury history , early is a rookie , Lloyd is another Redskin reject(Archuleta).
Im actually an optomistic person yet everything that I see with this years team spells disaster! My prediction is this....Another year of an inept offense. Maybe worse than last year.(Hopefully Forte and Williams get some good experience) The defense will spend A LOT of time on the field again and injuries will be a problem again on defense. I'd be surprised if the Bears do better than 6-10. Just being realistic! So anyone good coming out in next years draft? We may have a very good pick!

Bears Record last year: 7-9

Reasons Why and How and why they can do same or better:
Slightly revamped and realigned O-line.
A new Runningback that would actually
have to TRY HARDER to be -WORSE- then Benson,
then -BETTER- then Benson.
A WR corp that has a range of characters ranging from the likes of Hester who is playing for a bigger contract and bigger fame to the Lloyds of the world who are virtually playing for there NFL career life to Booker who wants to go out with a bang. Perhaps lighting in a bottle can be captured there (perhaps).
And a very Solid Tight End corp in Olsen and Clarke.
And of course if defense is Healthy, one of the Top 5 in the league...."if" healthy.

Possible Reasons they can do Worse:
QB situation could implode.
Forte doing just "better" then Benson may NOT be enough of an improvement.
Inexperience of a Rookie at LT may hurt the line.
Lack of progression (Hester-Bradley) and execution (Lloyd-Booker) in our WR corp.
Another injury meltdown on Defense.

I think the wildcard here is how there new draft picks perform. I'm going to have to agree with the Vegas line on this one and say an 8-8 season, 9-7 at best, 7-9 at worst.
No superbowl team here in my eyes sadly.

[No_More_Rexcuses]

Dimz you just spammed the same post(#2)...Anything new to add?

[No_More_Rexcuses]

Rex Is Our Guy wrote:

<quoted text>There is a lot of truth in what you say, but just so all us Bear fans don't lose hope, I'm going to play the devil's advocate of your vision here.
Yes, the offensive line may not be any better but 3 of the 5 starters have been replaced with younger and stronger players. Being a veteran has little to do with you success on the line. It's how strong you are, and how well you can hold someone off or push them out of the way. All the experience of a veteran in the world won't compensate for a younger and stronger player. Brown wasn't the greatest to be honest. He and Miller alone accounted for more than half the penalties our offensive line through up. We'd have a drive going, be in field goal range, and have back to back false starts, or in Miller's case, punching people, and lose yardage. And being 2nd to last in sacks given up per attempt last year... I don't see how they could do worse. And with the addition of Williams, yes, I'm definitely expecting a stronger and better line this year.
In terms of RB, Benson was horrible. Absolutely horrible. I know the line didn't help him, and the carousel at QB didn't have anyone dropping back in fear of the pass, but the guy just didn't do anything - period. Forte can only go up. When you're trying to raise the bar from 3.2 yards per carry (last in the NFC), not much you can do to be worse. So Forte won't have a lot of pressure to deal with in terms of showing the Bears he can be better than Benson. And with the way rookies are coming out and running now, for example the other Adrian Peterson, I'm excited to see what a youth like Forte has to offer.
And I think letting Berrian and Muhammad go was the best thing for us. Berrian's speed is useless when he leads the team in drops. Rex would've had at least 5 to 6 more TD's in the first 3 games, and probably less INT's had Berrian not screwed him in fighting for passes and holding onto the ball. Muhammad just doesn't get separation anymore period. They're absence gives younger, stronger and hungrier receivers a chance to step up and show what they can do.

Ok now let me play devils advocate..Lets suppose that your right about your theory with offensive linemen and how experience doesn't matter.(Which defies anything I've ever seen or heard) You still have Tait who gave up alot of sacks and Kruetz who according to you is responsible for fumbled snaps. Garza and metcalfe are in there too and Garza is practically a revolving door in pass protection.
As far as RB goes Benson was a bum..No doubt !! However Peterson and Wolfe didn't do any better and now we are supposed to think that a rookie RB is going to be the answer? Hope your right!
say what you want about Berrian and his drops but just remmeber some of the great catches he had to make our Qbs look good to! Remember that insane catch he had in the end zone? Or how about the catch in the New Orleans playoff game? Moose was never used right by a certain QB. Now that Berrian is gone who will be Rexs go to guy? You can't doubt they had chemistry.
I know that some guys can burst on the scene and make a difference but it seems that your expecting everyone to do it. Rex bust out of his funk , Williams being a solid LT off the bat , Forte stepping up right away , receivers suddenly emerging. You aren't even thinking about our depth. I'd be really surprised if this all happens.
I know your a big fan of Rex but this year I almost feel sorry for the guy because he's playing for his NFL career and he's been dealt a terrible hand. Its amazing how fast this team has fallen since the '06 season and I really believe the biggest loss this team had was the loss of Thomas Jones!! How can we get him back?

[Jopa-n]

Why do many mathmaticians feel the Bear's QB situation good turn out good?
Because to them, two negatives make a positive!

[Jopa-n]

mean't could turn out good- I know, ruined a nice one with that goof.

[EricBcook]

No_More_Rexcuses wrote:

<quoted text>Ok now let me play devils advocate..Lets suppose that your right about your theory with offensive linemen and how experience doesn't matter.(Which defies anything I've ever seen or heard) You still have Tait who gave up alot of sacks and Kruetz who according to you is responsible for fumbled snaps. Garza and metcalfe are in there too and Garza is practically a revolving door in pass protection.
As far as RB goes Benson was a bum..No doubt !! However Peterson and Wolfe didn't do any better and now we are supposed to think that a rookie RB is going to be the answer? Hope your right!
say what you want about Berrian and his drops but just remmeber some of the great catches he had to make our Qbs look good to! Remember that insane catch he had in the end zone? Or how about the catch in the New Orleans playoff game? Moose was never used right by a certain QB. Now that Berrian is gone who will be Rexs go to guy? You can't doubt they had chemistry.
I know that some guys can burst on the scene and make a difference but it seems that your expecting everyone to do it. Rex bust out of his funk , Williams being a solid LT off the bat , Forte stepping up right away , receivers suddenly emerging. You aren't even thinking about our depth. I'd be really surprised if this all happens.
I know your a big fan of Rex but this year I almost feel sorry for the guy because he's playing for his NFL career and he's been dealt a terrible hand. Its amazing how fast this team has fallen since the '06 season and I really believe the biggest loss this team had was the loss of Thomas Jones!! How can we get him back?

Tait is moved back to his natural position, Right Tackle, and WE will have Garza at Right Guard, He can still play, he is not as bad as Fred Miller was on the left side, he will be replaced By John St. Clair. I believe you are looking at a starting line-up that consists of: John Tait at Right Tackle, Roberto Garza at Right Guard, Olin Kreutz at Center, St. Clair at Left Guard and Chris Williams at Left Tackle.

This IS and improved O-line, St. Clair played better Right Tackle than Miller He has played left tackle and can certainly play Left Guard. So the right side of the line is immediately better...including Garza because he will actually have a competent tackle next to him. The left side with St. Clair and Williams will be fine, will there be a learning curve with Williams...yep, but he will do fine.

AS far as Peterson he was identical on yards per carry to Benson, but ran harder and was second on the team in receptions and yards with 420 yards receiving. He is better than Benson and so is Forte, I don't need to see Him run a down in the NFL!

The biggest loss of the team was the play of the offensive line. It will be improved...heck ias I have said before it cannot get worse.

And you have some receivers that are playing for their carreers and roster spts, including Rashied Davis and Mark Bradley, wh have been in this offense for years and Rex has been throwing to for years, so it is not as if their is no continuity between any receivers on the roster and Rex.

I am wearing rose colored glasses but, I think we can look forward to some good things this year.

[Bill]

EricBcook wrote:

<quoted text>
..........
I am wearing rose colored glasses but, I think we can look forward to some good things this year.

.

Well, I don't see how anyone can take a disaster of a team,... subtract several veterans,... add ONE blue-chip rookie,... and scramble the rest,... and expect a bunch of roses!

If scrambling the lineup is so great,----- Why didn't they do it before?

I see a bad, bad season.

.

[No_More_Rexcuses]

Eric lets be realistic here. The defense and special teams are good enough for a championship run. The sad truth is that the offense is a joke. There isn't a guy on the offense that teams will fear! It seems like people just think that Hester will run deep and catch TD passes all season...Its not going to be that easy..

Sure there are pieces in place for the future. Olson , Forte , Williams maybe even Hester but those are pretty big "IF's"...You may think I'm crazy but I think that Matt Lawrence may be the guy who ends up being the "steal" and he wasn't even drafted!! I really believe that he's the reason why the Bears aren't pursuing a veteran RB!!!! He runs hard has moves and has a burst. Can't wait to see him in pre-season!!

As far as the receivers thing goes ...Did you miss my point? Berrian and Rex had chemistry , we cant even argue that!!! Sure Bradley and Davis were there too but they DO NOT have the chemistry that Berrian and Rex had. Plus where do you see them as # 3 or #4 receivers?? If thats where our continuity is at we're in trouble!!

[EricBcook]

I am not sure where they will be at but one of those guys will definitely be # 3 unless Earl Bennet, comes forth(which he or Marcus Monk could). They do not need to play together forever. I agree Berrian and Grossman had continuity, but NONE of the other receivers did, Booker did play with Rex in 2003 for the 3 games Rex Played lol!
But running good routes can make a huge difference! How long did Terrel Owens and Romo play together before they developed continuity? What about Moss and Brady? I know it is ridiculous to share any analogy to these guys and what we have?
But it makes a point continuity can be developed rather quickly. I also want to answer Bill here!

yes shuffling players can make a difference, especially if what you are asking them to do is easier than what they did well before. ie....Tait to right tackle, and St. Clair to left guard.

[_DiMz_]

No_More_Rexcuses wrote:

Dimz you just spammed the same post(#2)...Anything new to add?

my bad, i thought i was copy pasting on a different but similar thread.

But yes, I do, I'm confused how and why you think the offense was not upgraded this offseason?
I can understand the concern over the WR corps...
But you cant deny that the O-line has been upgraded and you also cant deny that Forte, or anything with 2 legs is not an upgrade over Benson??
Dont also forget the fact that yes, the offense was inept last year, but the systematic failure was also do in large part to the MASSIVE injuries suffered on the defensive end of the ball.
Free agency was botched and in turn could of made a good draft into a GREAT one, but bottom line (at least on pre-pre-season lol) on paper the bears by right shouldnt do worse then last years record and is feasible they do 1 or 2 games better.(upsets happen)
just my 0.02cents

[No_More_Rexcuses]

Ok so with Booker , Hester , Bennett , Lloyd , Bradley and Davis you really think that someone will emerge as Rex's go to guy? Not to even mention Monk!! I'm glad to see your so optomistic. And your right it is ridiculous to compare the Brady/Moss and Romo/Owens combinations. I think that Booker may turn into Rex's new security blanket , but lets face it Booker isn't nearly as good a receiver as Berrian was.

Back to the whole o-line thing to...Shuffling the players wont do squat! Tait hasn't played RT in how long? He was barely adequate at LT. There was a reason why St. Clair and Metcalfe were back-ups to Brown. Now you say we will have a guy playing LG who is actually a tackle? And next to him will be a rookie.Hmmm...I know this NEVER happens but lets suppose 1 guy gets injured. Then what? Williams was a good pick but beyond that the line is worse. Same guys! You know the ones who couldn't block last season...guess what they're back!!

[No_More_Rexcuses]

_DiMz_ wrote:

<quoted text>
my bad, i thought i was copy pasting on a different but similar thread.
But yes, I do, I'm confused how and why you think the offense was not upgraded this offseason?
I can understand the concern over the WR corps...
But you cant deny that the O-line has been upgraded and you also cant deny that Forte, or anything with 2 legs is not an upgrade over Benson??
Dont also forget the fact that yes, the offense was inept last year, but the systematic failure was also do in large part to the MASSIVE injuries suffered on the defensive end of the ball.
Free agency was botched and in turn could of made a good draft into a GREAT one, but bottom line (at least on pre-pre-season lol) on paper the bears by right shouldnt do worse then last years record and is feasible they do 1 or 2 games better.(upsets happen)
just my 0.02cents

Well Forte still has NEVER taken a snap in any NFL game!! So to say he's the answer is absurd! I will agree that he should be as good as Benson was if not better but unless he's a 1 man wrecking crew we're still in trouble.

The offensive line is going to be shuffled around and will be starting a rookie LT. Other than that same line!! So if we can't run maybe we can pass right? Forte will be an upgrade there for sure but we do agree about the Wr corp so on to QB. Do you really think this will be the year that Rex pulls his head outta his ass?

So if we cant run and we cant pass that will mean that the defense will be spending a lot of time on the field this year (again)..And when the defense spends a lot of time on the field there will be injuries. Hopefully not massive though...And yes JA did completely screw up free agency. I would have felt better if he brought in a veteran lineman or two and sign somebody (Turner) to come in and have an impact on this offense

[EricBcook]

No_More_Rexcuses wrote:

Ok so with Booker , Hester , Bennett , Lloyd , Bradley and Davis you really think that someone will emerge as Rex's go to guy? Not to even mention Monk!! I'm glad to see your so optomistic. And your right it is ridiculous to compare the Brady/Moss and Romo/Owens combinations. I think that Booker may turn into Rex's new security blanket , but lets face it Booker isn't nearly as good a receiver as Berrian was.
Back to the whole o-line thing to...Shuffling the players wont do squat! Tait hasn't played RT in how long? He was barely adequate at LT. There was a reason why St. Clair and Metcalfe were back-ups to Brown. Now you say we will have a guy playing LG who is actually a tackle? And next to him will be a rookie.Hmmm...I know this NEVER happens but lets suppose 1 guy gets injured. Then what? Williams was a good pick but beyond that the line is worse. Same guys! You know the ones who couldn't block last season...guess what they're back!!

Ok if you want to get real, Rex WILL NOT START ALL SEASON NEXT YEAR SO LET'S THROW CONTINUITY OUT THE WINDOW WITH REX HE WILL EITHER BE INJURED OR MELT DOWN!

I think you are making way to big a deal about that, there was NO continuity last year on offense anyway!

Secondly, St. Clair was never a back up to Brown, Brown was a GUARD, St. Clair Played Left or Right Tackle last year! AND HE WAS BETTER THAN FRED MILLER WHEN HE PLAYED, Miller got benched and St. Clair came in and played well!

He will do great at Guard, it is easier to play,

And to answer your statement the ones who couldn't block last year....Guess what they're back....

NOPE MILLER AND BROWN ARE GONE! JOHN TAIT IS A THOUSAND TIMES OF AN UPGRADE OVER FRED MILLER!
It is an easier position and his natural position. It is not as if he has to learn how to play over again!

I am not blown with what we did in the off season but, I can see how we will be better. Anyways thanks for the game of good cop and bad cop. thats my 2 cents.