Armstrong's fall from grace may help cycling

Cyclist Floyd Landis has pleaded not guilty to wire fraud in San Diego and prosecutors agreed to defer prosecution on condition he makes restitution to people from whom he raised money to fund his fight against... Cyclist Floyd Landis agreed Friday to repay donors nearly a half-million dollars that he raised to challenge doping allegations in an ... (more)

[Mary_Ali]

They are all patting themselves on the back and they have proven nothing except that they are the biggest bullies on the planet. In the public's mind, Armstrong has not been banned, he has turned his back on a witch hunt with a roar of approval from his fans. No one buys this as a valid ban so get over yourselves.

[trev]

Does the USADA actually have any real evidence that Lance Armstrong used performance enhancing drugs, or is it just the confessions of caught drug cheats to try and improve their own position?
Do the American people remember Rubin Carter?

[Brad]

They are all just speed bumps to me! Get off the road"

[Athos]

trev wrote:

Does the USADA actually have any real evidence that Lance Armstrong used performance enhancing drugs, or is it just the confessions of caught drug cheats to try and improve their own position?
Do the American people remember Rubin Carter?

It seems that they do NOT have proof, just the confessions of 'team mates' I hope in time that LA IS proven innocent, but 'no smoke without fire' they say

[My Opinion_El Paso_Texas]

trev wrote:

Does the USADA actually have any real evidence that Lance Armstrong used performance enhancing drugs, or is it just the confessions of caught drug cheats to try and improve their own position?
Do the American people remember Rubin Carter?

The main problem with the USADA is that they operate the way they want to and often that process isn't in line with what we're uded to seeing here in the US in relation to the Justice System in place here.

We really got to see that in the USADA vs Floyd Landis case as Floyd Landis did all cycling fans a good service by requesting that process to be made public.

Throughout the various cycling forums various lawyers and even a judge had criticised the way USADA was operating. That process is more like the rider or athlete is "Guilty Until He/She Proves They Are Innocent!" Where as our justice system here in the US is "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" by the DA!

[thinking free]

The minute I found out Armstrong formed a tax free foundation I knew he was crooked. I have been proven right again. He's a fraud and always has been. The fact that he has chisen not to fight the latest ruling means he just doesn't care. An innocent man would be vocal to say the least.

[My Opinion_El Paso_Texas]

thinking free wrote:

The minute I found out Armstrong formed a tax free foundation I knew he was crooked. I have been proven right again. He's a fraud and always has been. The fact that he has chisen not to fight the latest ruling means he just doesn't care. An innocent man would be vocal to say the least.

Considering that most charities are non-prophet and that they are also set up for tax-free purpose, then they all must be crooked as well by your opinion here.

I think I'll listen to what the Canncer Association has to say before I'm going to listen to someone who really doesn't know anything here!

[Olympics on roids]

Most of you people are utterly clueless. It must be nice seeing everything through a veil of ignorance being completely naive to modern-era professional sports culture.

WADA and USADA have plenty of proof he cheated. In fact, they have so much damning evidence that Mr. Armstrong himself surrendered, probably in hopes of taking a plea that includes sealing the record/evidence from open public forum.

In fact, the most interesting thing is that JUST ONE MONTH AGO Mr. Armstrong came out publicly and arrogantly announced this investigation is a sham and he would fight to prove his innocence!...Yea, remember that? How quickly things change once WADA calls you in and slams MOUNTAINS of evidence in your face.

[Olympics on roids]

Oh and for the record, I understand many of you probably reject the fact that he cheated (and did monthly blood transfusion to beat out of competition tests - now that is serious dedication) because he beat cancer and his charity...I get that.

Him beating cancer is an amazing personal thing for him, yes. His charity is also great - but what we forget is that if it wasn't for the brilliance of a NIKE marketing team, there wouldn't be one. Talk about a cash cow.

Many of you also probably do not know that Lance Armstrong is regarded as one of the biggest jerks on the planet. When you want people put up with it. But when something like this happens, you have LOTS of people lining up to see you fall.

[the truth]

My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
Considering that most charities are non-prophet and that they are also set up for tax-free purpose, then they all must be crooked as well by your opinion here.
I think I'll listen to what the Canncer Association has to say before I'm going to listen to someone who really doesn't know anything here!

To think that all people who have 501's are just great is silly at best. You think just because he got past cancer makes him a saint? Please, he's no better than the Romney's in this world.

[Gus]

all you Haters/Non believers....watch and listen to Phil Ligget's Video on Velo News...then SHUT the ''F'' up!

[Laughing Bear Fan]

To hell with drug testing. This reminds me of the indy-car formula-1 rift
Why not let them take whatever kind of drugs they want and race?
You could have the Tour De France brought to you by BALCO, the "atheletes" would be awesome and the races incredible

[barry eary]

I am not sure this helps cycling

[My Opinion_El Paso_Texas]

Olympics on roids wrote:

Oh and for the record, I understand many of you probably reject the fact that he cheated (and did monthly blood transfusion to beat out of competition tests - now that is serious dedication) because he beat cancer and his charity...I get that.
Him beating cancer is an amazing personal thing for him, yes. His charity is also great - but what we forget is that if it wasn't for the brilliance of a NIKE marketing team, there wouldn't be one. Talk about a cash cow.
Many of you also probably do not know that Lance Armstrong is regarded as one of the biggest jerks on the planet. When you want people put up with it. But when something like this happens, you have LOTS of people lining up to see you fall.

What GUTT INSTINCT may tell about an individual has nothing to do with determining the GUILT or INNOCENCE of that same individual! And whether or not that same individual is the DIRT BAG of the entire world has no barring there as well.

I rely pertinent information in order for making an accurate dignosis, I also do the same once I have seen the evidence as well.

As for knowing the various professional cyclists in depth, all any of us can know is what we've been able to read in the various venues of the news media and hear about from the various cycling commentators.

Seems to me that it might just be you who is the real clueless one!

[My Opinion_El Paso_Texas]

the truth wrote:

<quoted text>To think that all people who have 501's are just great is silly at best. You think just because he got past cancer makes him a saint? Please, he's no better than the Romney's in this world.

Please show me where I stated that anyone is "Great" anywhere in topix.com ?

Please also show me anywhere in topix.com that I have ever stated that anyone is a "Saint?"

Then try re-reading everything that I have written and then try digesting it into your brain for better understanding!!!

[National Whistleblower]

Mary_Ali wrote:

They are all patting themselves on the back and they have proven nothing except that they are the biggest bullies on the planet. In the public's mind, Armstrong has not been banned, he has turned his back on a witch hunt with a roar of approval from his fans. No one buys this as a valid ban so get over yourselves.

You must not be aware of whistle blowers and how they are treated. So let me give you a little insight. http://www.scribd.com/doc/19435907/National-S...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24093243/Alert-the-...

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

You can thank YHVH if you survive the American Holocaust.

[Rattle]

My Opinion_El Paso_Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
What GUTT INSTINCT may tell about an individual has nothing to do with determining the GUILT or INNOCENCE of that same individual! And whether or not that same individual is the DIRT BAG of the entire world has no barring there as well.
I rely pertinent information in order for making an accurate dignosis, I also do the same once I have seen the evidence as well.
As for knowing the various professional cyclists in depth, all any of us can know is what we've been able to read in the various venues of the news media and hear about from the various cycling commentators.
Seems to me that it might just be you who is the real clueless one!

Talk about denial. Lance Armstrong would probably snicker and roll his eyes at you if he read that.

Tell me this: If you are accused of something you did not do, whether it be cheating on a test in college, plagiarizing a thesis in graduate school, or even, say, accused of shaving points in a basketball game - and face an NCAA ban and loss of eligibility, how many times do you willingly admit you did it and surrender for whatever the consequences will be even though you are truly innocent? Here's you answer: NEVER!

Denial, denial, denial.

[My Opinion_El Paso_Texas]

Rattle wrote:

<quoted text>
Talk about denial. Lance Armstrong would probably snicker and roll his eyes at you if he read that.
Tell me this: If you are accused of something you did not do, whether it be cheating on a test in college, plagiarizing a thesis in graduate school, or even, say, accused of shaving points in a basketball game - and face an NCAA ban and loss of eligibility, how many times do you willingly admit you did it and surrender for whatever the consequences will be even though you are truly innocent? Here's you answer: NEVER!
Denial, denial, denial.

Try showing and proving that I'm in denial. Better yet, have a lawyer read what I have written anywhere in topix.com and again try proving that I'm in denial.
I treat people with mental health issues and many of them were experiencing denial. So, you just bit off more then you could ever chew in trying to prove your accusations here.
If you had understood what I had wrote, you might then have a real clue.
Trouble is that far too many people automatically jumped on board that ship of public opinion considering that no real proof has yet been made public. And it isn't going to be made public because the USADA still has to conduct an arbitration case with one of the doctors and the manager (forgot his name) of the cycling team that Lance Armstrong was on.
But, if you had researched the various cycling forums, you would have read all of that current information.
Same behavior basically took place during the late 1960s' to early 1970s' throughout the United States.
Opinions hold no merit in any legal system throughout the enitre free world

[GeeMan]

That 90% you speak of is low and those not as familir with Cycling may not be aware of the extreme pressures that exist from Sponsors who regularly change apart from the few long standing ones like Cofidis who demand results which leads to pressure from team mates for increased performance ad the inevitable taking of PED's to achieve it.

I dont agree that not fighting is admission of guilt when the process has so many problems and add to this 2 x federal events stating there was not strong enough evidence to prosecute with reasonable doubt.
If anyone wants to reyl on witnss statements without physical evidence that i secure must

The whole issue has a very long way to run and I cannot see there being any major changes until the USADA v UCI issue is concluded. Once it is we shall see the big canges/moves from all sides.

That will then change how ALL Sport is administered with either smaller changes or massive ones depending on the final agreements.

Also remember only 4 athletes were found with positive drug tests at the Olympics which shows how far behind the testing regimes are so the general consensus will be that what is being done isnt enough and new approached are required.

[My Opinion_El Paso_Texas]

GeeMan wrote:

That 90% you speak of is low and those not as familir with Cycling may not be aware of the extreme pressures that exist from Sponsors who regularly change apart from the few long standing ones like Cofidis who demand results which leads to pressure from team mates for increased performance ad the inevitable taking of PED's to achieve it.
I dont agree that not fighting is admission of guilt when the process has so many problems and add to this 2 x federal events stating there was not strong enough evidence to prosecute with reasonable doubt.
If anyone wants to reyl on witnss statements without physical evidence that i secure must
The whole issue has a very long way to run and I cannot see there being any major changes until the USADA v UCI issue is concluded. Once it is we shall see the big canges/moves from all sides.
That will then change how ALL Sport is administered with either smaller changes or massive ones depending on the final agreements.
Also remember only 4 athletes were found with positive drug tests at the Olympics which shows how far behind the testing regimes are so the general consensus will be that what is being done isnt enough and new approached are required.

Very well stated from someone who seems to have been following cycling.

During the beginning of the Floyd Landis doping situation I tried pointing out that it all started with the sponsors pushing for better results from the riders, which eventually led them to begin doping, but too many here were heads made of stone.

So to us hoping for changers and seeing WADA, USADA, AFLD, UCI, USAC, and all of the federations working together in harmony, all of us had hoped for that after the Floyd Landis case as well. And as you can see, that never happened. Main reason why the ASO (owners of the TDF and other French races) pulled away from the "ProTour" there in Europe and went their own way.

UCI is the biggest problem here and until someone actually cleans them out and reoqagnizes their enternal staff structure, we will not be seeing any real changes.