Religious Americans: My faith isn't the only way

[Andrew]

"especially Americans - are too lazy to research)"
Wallace -
Your view of Americans is distasteful at best. You must belong to the liberal media scum.

[Nicole]

CAS--I used to have a friend who was (is) a Born Again. He lived on Long Island, but his family was from the Philippines. His nickname was Cas (or Caz). I know it's a long shot...but, does any of that sound familiar to you? I've been curious since I first noticed your screen name. Thought I'd ask...you never know!

CAS-1Cor1-18 wrote:

<quoted text>
How can there be laws in a system built on no absolutes?

[Lucid1]

Pete wrote:

It isn't "what my faith/religion" say, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?
Jesus stated in PLAIN WORDS..."I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John 14:6
How hard is that to understand? If God said it; I believe it! End of story.

I think Jesus was either full of himself - which I don't think is true (and I don't mean that disrespectfully either of course) or speaking philisophically and the meaning is that one will only learn their way into heaven through an understanding of themselves. I personally don't believe in either heaven or hell as nothing last forever except time and life itself. I mean if you were in heaven sitting around your mansion where all is provided for you...how long could you take that before your bored stupid? Life is always changing into death that changes back into life. A constant change that keeps life alive. Heaven implies and end to physical life and that just isn't going to happen.

[Wiccanocte]

Pete wrote:

It isn't "what my faith/religion" say, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?
Jesus stated in PLAIN WORDS..."I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John 14:6
How hard is that to understand? If God said it; I believe it! End of story.

Pete, you make a valid point, but let me ask this..What of those religions for which the Christian bible is not a factor? I'm an Alexandrian Wiccan, we have neither bibles, nor the Christian God. We have our own beliefs of life after death, none of which invoke heaven, or hell for that matter. Is what I believe wrong because your bible isn't a part of it?

[Andrew]

"Humanity will not move forward with religion dividing people and it is good that people expose it for the ignorance that it truly is."
Pat- you are absolutely right. Religion divides. I mentioned it before. There is a narrow path to righteousness and a wide path to destruction. People get all pissed off when it is presented so clearly, but it's the truth. When sin is pointed out you can choose to embrace it or let God's grace wash over you.

[Andrew]

Steve-o's post-"Again, human beings wrote the Bible, not God, not Jesus. Humans who are assigning human emotions to God. Completely illogical. If God can "suffer" or "grieve", then He is no God.

Of course, when you have an agenda to fill, logic is tossed aside.

P.S. A God wouldn't have a heart either.... "

Your post cracks me up. You try to discredit our argument by saying if God can suffer and grieve then he is no God. And by the way he wouldn't have a heart either.
So my question to you is what is your definition of God? You know what he doesn't have so you must know what He does have.

[Andrew]

Christian soldier- Have you read the Bible or do you just go by what everyone else tells you. I think you lack the ability to discern any real truth. I believe that maybe some day you will be able to engage in a real debate. But sadly that day is not here yet.

[Andrew]

"I'm sorry, I really had no idea you were perfect. My sincere apologies for thinking anything else. You are most certainly better than me, and I should applaud you for that. And, in case it ever comes up, you can't accuse me of thinking that I am holier than thou. You have already clarified that."
Cas- You don't think that maybe Pat suffers from being too prideful do you?
Even though we Christians see this easily, Pat does not. And, follow me here, this is 1 way in which God works. Pat's pride may eventually break him down some day. And God will be there to offer His grace. Then Pat can choose God's grace.
Just an idea.

[Andrew]

"all you have to do is believe in Christ which is completely subjective."
Dirk- This is for you brother. James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
James 2:18 Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

[Andrew]

And to all the believers in Jesus the Christ, our savior. Remember that all 12 disciples fell away in their faith only to come back on fire for the Word of God after they had witnessed His ressurection. We live in a time as difficult as Roman times. We may fall away in our faith at times or even become a non-believer. However, God will not fault us for it. It is expected to be difficult.

[Andrew]

"The Iraq war would not be going on were it not for 9/11 which was begun thanks to religion."
Pat -please read "The Quartermasters of Terror" by Mark Silverberg. Religion doesn't start wars. Just like guns don't kill people. I think you will find interesting that bin laden compares the American military to a paper tiger in a 1996 interview. Thus realizing that we were vulnerable to attack. And it's also interesting that we have not had any terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11.

[chessie]

Pat, in regards to people that represent God (Swaggert, Baker, etc)- these are the absolute worst in God's eyes and are worse than snake oil salesmen. These robbers know how to milk the people and brainwash them into submission. Anything like that IS NOT OF THE REAL GOD. It's another example of Satan at work, using these people to do evil works. Satan loves to make God look foolish. Please don't judge God by these low-lifes.

Now where does anyone get the idea that God can't have emotions or feelings? The bible makes it quite clear that He feels anger, pleasure - to name a couple. His #1 request of people is to love Him, and love each other.

[chessie]

Oh, another thing - the issue with the priests and their sexually attacking young boys: The rule in that church says that priests cannot marry. This goes against what God has said right from the beginning that It is not good for man to be alone. Sure, if someone is happy being unmarried that's fine, but if you want sex, God is saying get married! That's for your mental and physical well-being. Another man-made rule pushed on these men and look what happens - it's sickening. And once again who looks foolish? God.

Why did they make that rule anyway? Probably because the church didn't want to support a wife and children - or the one who made it didn't have any hormones. Totally unrealistic.

[Lucid1]

Andrew wrote:

"The Iraq war would not be going on were it not for 9/11 which was begun thanks to religion."
Pat -please read "The Quartermasters of Terror" by Mark Silverberg. Religion doesn't start wars. Just like guns don't kill people. I think you will find interesting that bin laden compares the American military to a paper tiger in a 1996 interview. Thus realizing that we were vulnerable to attack. And it's also interesting that we have not had any terrorist attacks on U.S. soil since 9/11.

Evidence prooves 911 was an inside job. Furthermore there is evidence of continued terrorism against Americans - isn't the threat of losing your home to foreclosure terrifying? If the 200 billion dollar bailout goes to the billionaire banks and the people don't retain their homes (the houses go to the billionaire banks too!)and there is the possibility it was planned that way (no doc loans) Then that is a very scary event. Terror whether percieved or inflicted is terrorism - the bail out is terrorism with a "helping" mask! Unfortunately it helps the ultra rich get richer! You say no attacks on American soil. Just because you can't see or percieve the terrorist actions does not mean they aren't there...ha! There are plenty of attacks on us(we the people) and our economy if you are intelligent enough to see them.

[Lucid1]

chessie wrote:

Oh, another thing - the issue with the priests and their sexually attacking young boys: The rule in that church says that priests cannot marry. This goes against what God has said right from the beginning that It is not good for man to be alone. Sure, if someone is happy being unmarried that's fine, but if you want sex, God is saying get married! That's for your mental and physical well-being. Another man-made rule pushed on these men and look what happens - it's sickening. And once again who looks foolish? God.
Why did they make that rule anyway? Probably because the church didn't want to support a wife and children - or the one who made it didn't have any hormones. Totally unrealistic.

Hey Chessie...I was raised a catholic and I totally agree with you. I now have come to the conclusion that there is or isn't a god - I don't know. There is not sufficient evidence for either beleif unless one says science is their God. If this is so then everybody wins. I am satisfied at this point to simply say "I don't know". But, if I do decide to believe in a God It will be a perfect One! A God without jealousy (a deadly sin). If I choose a God it won't be one that is a burden on my life. I commend you for your faith if it brings you comfort! At least you can look at the reasons why people think religion is bad and say those are perversions of the true faith. I have suffered through some serious death defying events and I got through them by myself...I answered my own prayers so to speak by simply living day to day and eventually most of the pain passed and I'm a better person(in my opinion) for it. I'm not out of the woods yet. I'm still unemployed without a driver license [(need $2500 to get it back)no DUI's...driving on suspended license and several failures to appear] I do have a roof and food....my opportunity is on the horizon I know it. But, I got where I am today by myself. I never prayed to the God I grew up with...I asked my deceased love ones to guide me and they did.

[Voice of Reason]

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>True. I also can't be judged by the actions of other Christians, true?

No doubt about it which is why we get along from opposite sides of the fence.

[Voice of Reason]

CAS-1Cor1-18 wrote:

<quoted text>
How can there be laws in a system built on no absolutes?

Who says there are no absolutes in natural law? Most Atheists see things in black and white rather than shades of gray which is why they demand proof before accepting something as factual.

[Voice of Reason]

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>I think I get your point. Some "Christians" believe in Christ but do not follow His teachings, right? It is unfortunate that they are looked at as representing all Christians. If there is ever any doubt, one only needs to read the teachings of Jesus to know how to be a Christian.

I think it would be a different debate, indeed, if all Christians followed the teachings of Jesus; it would then be a debate on dogma and faith. Most of this discussion seems to be about the infinite interpretations the followers want to practice in their situational ethics as they jump from one argument to the next.(Present company excluded)

[Tman]

Man... alot of people believe in the "God Delusion"!!!

[Voice of Reason]

Tman wrote:

Man... alot of people believe in the "God Delusion"!!!

According to the latest polls, 80% of America. Hard to believe with all the nons in this discussion.