1 of 2 girls charged in taped Wayland attack is expelled

[Nikki]

Good

[bob smith]

Thank you amazed for your comment about the parents and getting counseling - I would love to know what the parents think of their little darlings now - this story is sad on so many levels and it will only get sadder if these girls do not get help. We had different kids in our school and we sure as hell did not jump them and beat them up - this is a disgusting story and shame on you girls for your actions and and your expression of Pathetic behavior.

[Shelbelle]

Wayland has its problems just like all the other schools. Gay students aren't tolerated really by anyone in High School. The amount of times I hear the term "gay" to mean stupid or bad is too many to count.If every teacher staff member addressed it every time, there'd never be any time to teach academics!
We don't want teachers or counselors to start early in the younger grades though and teach that bullying is wrong and not tolerated. We still think that if we just teach them how to read and write the families and churches will teach values. Talking about sexual orientation might put ideas into kids' heads...so we don't. Guess what? It's not working....

[mee too]

Clarification wrote:

<quoted text>
YOu know the schools can only do so much with the kids they get. If parents don't / can't better prepare their kids for school and life, then the school can't be expected to create little angels. Values are instilled either at home or on the street. Which would you prefer?

That is what I said.. it's up to the parents. The teachers do need to keep things under control in their classrooms as well, after all, they are responsible for the children while at school. They and the admin. are setting the rules and they need to stress to the kids they are stict rules. First values are instilled in the home and (hopefully) through church as well.

[Proud Prude]

Has it occurred to anyone that we did not have these problems in our schools back before the Bible and prayer were kicked out? Of course intolerance is probably preferred over hurting the feelings of the one atheist in the school system.

[John]

I don't think the punishment is tough enough!! These girls "GANG ATTACKED" one person!!! That anamalistic, If thats the correct word!! I just feel for the young lady that was attacked. How does she feel about this?? I don't think its fair!!!!!!!!

[BallanRoss]

Reading the local posts I can easily see where the sort of thinking comes from, that justifies this kind of thuggery between their children for any reason.

I wouldn't want to leave out the assistance to the cause of pre-emptive violence provided by resident anti-gay het supremacist, TommyO from Grand Rapids, Michigan.

TommyO, I hope that's more accurate, so more acceptable description of your position than "homophobe." I don't like 'phobe for the same reason; het supremacy is rarely based on a "fear" of them; it's more often a chosen lifestyle, only sometimes based in insecurity about one's own sexual orientation and low self-esteem)

[Moe]

Booger Snacks wrote:

Is the sexual harassment issue going to be addressed with this?
And for the record- any inappropriate sexual advances no matter what they are or who they came from is still considered sexual harassment.

Right. Like telling someone they are attractive. Or telling someone you "like" them. Gee whiz. Maybe I should beat the crap (and have someone video tape the action) out of every guy who has ever said those things to me.
What proof do you have that any of that happened? Even the girls who did the beating have admitted they did it because they "thought is was gross" that the beaten girl held hands with another girl.
I shouldn't even be wasting my energy on this. But the idea that in 2008 some people still think it is okay be physically harm someone based on the gender they are attracted to is obscene.

[Moe]

Proud Prude wrote:

Has it occurred to anyone that we did not have these problems in our schools back before the Bible and prayer were kicked out? Of course intolerance is probably preferred over hurting the feelings of the one atheist in the school system.

No, it hadn't occurred to me. We kept the beating and sexual abuse quiet back in those days. It was saved for the parents.
Honestly, the Bible will bring the kids back in line? How about proper parenting and leading by example? How about teaching that every human life has dignity? How about teaching that no matter what a person does to offend you, beating them is not the right choice?
Making teenagers learn John 3:16 in class will not stop the violence.

[TheKaisho42]

Proud Prude wrote:

Has it occurred to anyone that we did not have these problems in our schools back before the Bible and prayer were kicked out? Of course intolerance is probably preferred over hurting the feelings of the one atheist in the school system.

DOES ANYONE, EVER, REMEMBER THERE BEING A BIBLE IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL?

I am 42 years old (hence the moniker, TheKaisho42) so I am not a child of the last 20 years of public education. I would qualify as "old school" by most defintions of the term.

I do not ever, even once, remember the BIBLE being taught in any classroom. It never happened. I do not personally know anyone who ever remembers having one, either.

The problem is not the Bible. The problem is not the school. The problem has nothing to do with the Bible NOT being in school.

The problem lies in parents abdicating their parental authority and responsibilities to the schools and NOT teaching the Bible (or, if one wills, its secular value, such as the Golden Rule) at HOME where it should be taught.

It should be taught by responsible parents that have a deep and fervent desire to teach their children good morals, ethics and values. It should not come from any Evangelical Christian or religious group at a PUBLIC school.

If you do not like that, fine, send your kids to parochial school. You have that right and that is your CHOICE. But no one should have to be subjected to RELIGION, whatever the denomination, at a public school.

I am a parent and I have not surrendered my child to the school system OR to any religion. She is free to believe what she wants...without me shoving my belief system down her throat.

And here's the thing; she has, all things considered, turned out to be a pretty good kid.

She did not get that way by accident, folks.

[rval2]

TheKaisho42 wrote:

<quoted text>
But no one should have to be subjected to RELIGION, whatever the denomination, at a public school.

Correct, they shouldn't HAVE to be; it SHOULD on the other hand, be a CHOICE; If I were to bring my Bible to school and read it during lunch, and others choose to join, well then, that is CHOICE

[Rich]

TheKaisho42 wrote:

<quoted text>
DOES ANYONE, EVER, REMEMBER THERE BEING A BIBLE IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL?
I am 42 years old (hence the moniker, TheKaisho42) so I am not a child of the last 20 years of public education. I would qualify as "old school" by most defintions of the term.
I do not ever, even once, remember the BIBLE being taught in any classroom. It never happened. I do not personally know anyone who ever remembers having one, either.
The problem is not the Bible. The problem is not the school. The problem has nothing to do with the Bible NOT being in school.
The problem lies in parents abdicating their parental authority and responsibilities to the schools and NOT teaching the Bible (or, if one wills, its secular value, such as the Golden Rule) at HOME where it should be taught.
It should be taught by responsible parents that have a deep and fervent desire to teach their children good morals, ethics and values. It should not come from any Evangelical Christian or religious group at a PUBLIC school.
If you do not like that, fine, send your kids to parochial school. You have that right and that is your CHOICE. But no one should have to be subjected to RELIGION, whatever the denomination, at a public school.
I am a parent and I have not surrendered my child to the school system OR to any religion. She is free to believe what she wants...without me shoving my belief system down her throat.
And here's the thing; she has, all things considered, turned out to be a pretty good kid.
She did not get that way by accident, folks.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back! When there is no standard for right and wrong, some people will choose to do wrong.

[TommyO]

YES! Finally, a sane voice. Of course, you said it without the biting sarcasm I use :-)

Proud Prude wrote:

Has it occurred to anyone that we did not have these problems in our schools back before the Bible and prayer were kicked out? Of course intolerance is probably preferred over hurting the feelings of the one atheist in the school system.

[TommyO]

I hate to be the one to point it out, but the schools already have adopted a religion and force it upon everyone that goes there - atheism. By forcing kids to learn that the only way the earth was formed and that people came to be is through evolution is forcing a religious belief. The Ten Commandments aren't a bad thing to post in schools, even if you want to change the name of them and add a few new ones - they are still the ultimate in good law. When the schools decided to go to atheism and ignore the wisdom passed on by our Creator, they sealed the fate of this country with California leading the way (it sure looks a lot like God is trying to burn that place off the planet doesn't it?)

TheKaisho42 wrote:

<quoted text>
But no one should have to be subjected to RELIGION, whatever the denomination, at a public school.

[Give it a rest2]

Sandman wrote:

<quoted text>
That coming from someone in Gobles? NOW THAT'S FUNNY!!

Exactly! Apparently the English teachers in Gobles are no better than the ones in Wayland... Too funny.

[Give it a rest2]

Proud Prude wrote:

Has it occurred to anyone that we did not have these problems in our schools back before the Bible and prayer were kicked out? Of course intolerance is probably preferred over hurting the feelings of the one atheist in the school system.

I hate to break it to you, but I'm sure there is more than one Atheist. Probably more than one Jew, more than one Catholic, more than one Muslim. Public schools are not meant to teach religion. Since you feel religion should be reinstated, shall we use the Koran, or would you prefer Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses?

[Prude]

I'm not suggesting that public schools teach religion. They should however teach values and the difference between right and wrong. When two girls beat on a third while students cheer them on and another video tapes it there is an obvious absence of morality. What is right or wrong should not be subject to the interpretation of the mob. There need to be standards. I suggest the Bible as being acceptable to the majority but if you prefer the Koran and beheading people - be careful what you wish for.

[Prude]

Give it a rest2 wrote:

<quoted text>
Exactly! Apparently the English teachers in Gobles are no better than the ones in Wayland... Too funny.

Laugh your **** off then! I'm glad you had a chuckle.

[INFORMED]

angels94 wrote:

I have children 2, 3 & 7, live in the area and have a friend whose child was at the school when this happened. It is definitely up to us parents to strive our best to help our children understand what is right and wrong. It is an extremely hard thing to teach especially when it involves peer pressure and societal changes. We parents need to stick together. We need to help each other watch our children and get to know our neighbors. We need to let each other know when something wrong was done. It is the parents' responsibility to discipline for these types of actions. The law is getting way out of hand. We are getting to close to becoming a "communist" environment. I don't know about anyone else; but I seriously do not want some school board telling us parents that my child will not be allowed in school. Each child is given the right to an education. We should ensure not matter what the child has done ... the child is still given an education. How else are they to learn hands on experience of social groups and the "facts of life". Telling them is one thing but allowing the child to experience it is another. Yes, life is tough and there are terrible experiences out there for all of us. Being able to get through those experiences by asking for help is what makes the difference. We need to "value" and have respect for each other. A child/person should be able to reach out to another for help/guidance. We need to be watchful. Each of us need to help each other. Sheltering someone from society is not the answer.

I THINK THIS IS A GREAT POST. YOU HAVE GOOD POINTS. PARENTING IS NOT ALWAYS EASY. WE DO NEED TO STICK TOGETHER. THIS WHOLE SITUATION HAS BEEN BLOWN WAY OUT OF PROPORTION. THERE ARE MANY FACTS THAT ARE NOT ACURATE. SO MANY CALL THE GIRLS AND PARENTS WHITE TRASH ECT... I KNOW ONE OF THE FAMILIES INVOLVED VERY WELL. THIS FAMILY ISNT WHITE TRASH AS YOU PUT IT. I AGREE THAT RAISING KIDS IS A GROUP EFFORT, CHURCH, FREINDS, FAMILIES, SCHOOLS ECT... ALL OF YOUR POSTS YOU ACT AS THOUGH YOU KNOW ALL THE FAMILES SO WELL???? THIS FAMILY THAT I KNOW IS NOT A FAMILY THAT JUST DOESNT CARE, ECT... MOST OF US DO OUR BEST TO RAISE OUR KIDS ECT.. THIS ISNT A VIOLENT FAMILY. THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO THE TRUTH HERE THAT IS BEING PUT OUT THERE. LISTENING TO ALL OF THESE NEGATIVE POSTS ABOUT PARENTING IS AWFUL. EVERY WRONG CHOICE YOU ALL MADE IN LIFE, WAS IT YOUR PARENTS FAULT???? EVERY WRONG CHOICE YOUR KIDS MAKE, IS IT YOUR FAULT???? I DIDNT THINK SO!! THE PRESSURE FOR TEENS TODAY IS OVERWHELMING. NO, FIGHTING ISNT THE ANSWER. BUT, MOST OF YOUR POSTS ARE SO SHALLOW IN THOUGHT. WHAT IF THIS WAS YOUR CHILD????? OR, ARE YOU TOO GOOD TO HAVE THIS BE ONE OF YOURS???

[TheKaisho42]

Prude wrote:

I'm not suggesting that public schools teach religion. They should however teach values and the difference between right and wrong. When two girls beat on a third while students cheer them on and another video tapes it there is an obvious absence of morality. What is right or wrong should not be subject to the interpretation of the mob. There need to be standards. I suggest the Bible as being acceptable to the majority but if you prefer the Koran and beheading people - be careful what you wish for.

OMG, do you want a theocracy or don't you?

Make up your mind, would ya?

Since there is ample evidence and long precedent of a separation between Church and State, you can't have it both ways. You can't have your cake and eat it, too!

When you start combining Church and State (especially in a PUBLIC school) that is a slippery slope there that I am certain MOST rational people do not desire to go down at all. Are you saying that we should trust the pastors, priests, rabbis and other religious leaders to somehow intuitively know when to stop evangelizing or recruiting for their particular team? The very idea is absurd.

You can't possibly be that naive.

I said it before, I'll say it again!! Religion belongs in the home and at church. Religion has no place in a public school classroom.

If you don't like that, FINE. Send your kids to a parochial school OR home school them.

People that have children should also be their child's moral compass; not just some teacher in a classroom.