Is Global Warming a fact, true or false.

[Gentle Taz]

Whuteva wrote:

<quoted text>
We should have a country wide meeting via tele-conference and put the whole Global Warming deal to bed. Craig James, a small market weather guy on a small market TV station says it isnt so, so that officially ends the debate.

If you would read the facts he cites along with the refernces, which you obviosly have not, you would see what is fact and what is not. The size of the market his TV station served has no bearing on the accuracy of his information.
Incidentally, who is paying Al Gore the big bucks that support his lifestyle and what is his scientific background and/or credentials?

[Red_Fist]

To make hydrogen you put zink in hydrochloric acid.(muratic is diluted will work too)
Use tubing that goes to a flask full of water upsidedown.
release the hoseclamps so the bubbling mixture displaces the water, pure hydrogen.
Then unstopper the flask right side up and get a match.
Then tell me how flamable it isn't, they have no good form of storage nor transport yet.
The cars would be like little bombs unlike a gas tank, because the container needs to be able to hold high preasure.
Crash !,(little hole) and BOOM.The same thing you get from a small amount of gunpowder, such as a bullet or firecracker because it has to escape rapidly against a force.

[Whuteva]

michael g wrote:

<quoted text>
Deal with this and eat your words you arrogant, ignorant piece of crap...
“Tree huggers’” claims of mass de-forestation are completely unfounded based on the numbers. In the early part of the twentieth century, people cut down twice as many trees as they planted; now the United States grows 36 percent more trees than it harvests. Some researchers believe tree numbers are larger today than when Columbus arrived in 1492! In fact, less dependence on wood for fuel and construction has led to a decrease in wood consumption by half since 1900. Look to private conservation efforts, not federal government, for the 86 percent increase in reforestation, which helps create habitat for endangered species. Species like the California Condor are becoming extinct and environmentalists tout the Endangered Species Act for helping the condor and many other species. While the ESA’s sole purpose is to save species, in fact, not one recovered species has been helped by the ESA, according to many experts. Like the California Condor and the Wood Duck, countless species have been saved through the hard working efforts of private individuals and organizations. Robert J. Smith, Senior Environmental Scholar.
Source: Competitive Enterprise Institute

Youre wrong. I may be an arrogant piece of crap but you are just a fool and are talking out your ****.

[269JeepGuy]

Man-Bear-Pig is real !!!!

[Red_Fist]

I wish somebody ,scientists says, if we get a little bit of global warming all the cockroaches will die.And several nasty germs will die off.

heh

[TheKaisho42]

michael g wrote:

<quoted text>
Deal with this and eat your words you arrogant, ignorant piece of crap...
“Tree huggers’” claims of mass de-forestation are completely unfounded based on the numbers. In the early part of the twentieth century, people cut down twice as many trees as they planted; now the United States grows 36 percent more trees than it harvests. Some researchers believe tree numbers are larger today than when Columbus arrived in 1492! In fact, less dependence on wood for fuel and construction has led to a decrease in wood consumption by half since 1900. Look to private conservation efforts, not federal government, for the 86 percent increase in reforestation, which helps create habitat for endangered species. Species like the California Condor are becoming extinct and environmentalists tout the Endangered Species Act for helping the condor and many other species. While the ESA’s sole purpose is to save species, in fact, not one recovered species has been helped by the ESA, according to many experts. Like the California Condor and the Wood Duck, countless species have been saved through the hard working efforts of private individuals and organizations. Robert J. Smith, Senior Environmental Scholar.
Source: Competitive Enterprise Institute

Id iot. What of the rainforest in South America? They are disappearing at an alarming rate...never to be replaced.

Still, no one adresses the idea I put forward originally.

Do you think that we can continue to put filth into our ecosystem with impunity? do you not beleive it would be better for our health, our economy and our nation if we learned ot be way more Green than we are now?

Or should we treat the Earth like she is our own, private toilet?

Don't you think it is better to do whatever we can to reduce our dependence of foreign oil? Or even fossil fuels altogether?

If we can make our nation more Green and healthier for the next generations of children, don't you think we have an obligation and a duty to do just that?

Or should we ignore the signs completely and just keep pumping crap into the air, soil and water?

Have you ever seen a Superfund Site? Man, it ain't pretty. If anyone needed any more convincing that we need to clean our act up, that would be the thing to see.

[TheKaisho42]

BTW, saying that things are bter NOW than they were 100 years ago, is completely missing the point. Few people have any idea what, exactly, it was like around here 100 years ago.

furhter, there isn't anyone left alive that knows what the ecosystem was like here 200 years ago, 400 years ago, etc.

But it was prably WAY cleaner than it is now.

To thinki otherwise is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

Simply put, you cannot add billions and billions of people, billions of cars, trucks, plains, boats and trains, factories, supermarkets all that STUFF of the modern age and actually beleive that the environment is BETTER than it was before the humans showed up?

Are you kiding me? The very idea that Man can arrive on the scene of a pristine ecosystem and actually make it better after bringing the modern trappings of industry and waste more clean and functional than mother nature can is absurd, even laughable.

If you want, go live in LA or better yet, that small town in China near the coal mines out West. They say the smog is so thick there, they can't see the sun much of the time an dthe people there have to wear masks to go outside.

Yeah. I don't want that here but if I am not vigilant, like a bizillion other people, it could.

[Bob Twill]

TheKaisho42 wrote:

<quoted text>
Id iot. What of the rainforest in South America? They are disappearing at an alarming rate...never to be replaced.
Still, no one adresses the idea I put forward originally.
Do you think that we can continue to put filth into our ecosystem with impunity? do you not beleive it would be better for our health, our economy and our nation if we learned ot be way more Green than we are now?
Or should we treat the Earth like she is our own, private toilet?
Don't you think it is better to do whatever we can to reduce our dependence of foreign oil? Or even fossil fuels altogether?
If we can make our nation more Green and healthier for the next generations of children, don't you think we have an obligation and a duty to do just that?
Or should we ignore the signs completely and just keep pumping crap into the air, soil and water?
Have you ever seen a Superfund Site? Man, it ain't pretty. If anyone needed any more convincing that we need to clean our act up, that would be the thing to see.

A super fund site is not global scamming..err, warming. I agree we shouldn't turn Lake Michigan into a glowing cess pool. But that's not the question at hand.

[TheKaisho42]

Bob Twill wrote:

<quoted text>
A super fund site is not global scamming..err, warming. I agree we shouldn't turn Lake Michigan into a glowing cess pool. But that's not the question at hand.

Yes. yes, it is the question at hand.

I submit to you that the apologists for industry, waste and fossil fuels will stop at nothing less than unbridled usage unhampered by rules or regulations of their products.

This isnt a thing that is American owend and operated, man.

lokk to China, India or even our close neighbor, Mexico. Ever been down what is left of the Rio Grande River? One of the reasons companies go south is to avoid stringent environmental laws/rules os the US....In Mexico, they heve far less stringent controls...

But their pollution still effects Texas and the other border states, doens't it?

The pollutants don't stay in Mexico, china or India, do they? No. They circumnavigate the globe covering the workld with their mess.

I wish people would quite thinking that as long as it isn't in our backyard, it is cool. The world os not so big anymore, their backyard is our front lawn and vice versa...

We are making leaps in technology without considering the costs or future ramifictions of what we are doing.

And we are laying waste to tracts of land, lakes and oceans that are dying.

Take a look at the algae growth along the shores of both coasts.

Fish are dying and the harvests are getting smaller.

Wake up, people!

Recycle. When someone proposes a wind farm on/near the lake, quit taking a proprietary view of it and saying, "Not on my Lake." It isn't your lake, buddy, it belongs to us all. Use CFL bulbs in your home (I do) and for God's sake, walk or ride a bike when you can. Getting off your fat butts migh thelp your health AND the environment.

Sheesh...I love modern life as much as the next person, but I do not need to have 4 TVs in my home...I can only watch one at a time.

There are about a bizillion things that we al could do to help clean up our environment...sitting around debating whether or not global warming exists is not helping, is it?

Why not pretend, if need be, it does exist? How can having Green coal fired electrical plants, wind and solar farms be BAD for us?

Yeah...debate all you want while the Earth turns to CRAP. Me? I am going to do what I can to help her out.

[mrscsi]

TheKaisho42 wrote:

It is a poorly worded poll/question...but convenient (no pun intended) for the poller, huh?
Do you want eggs with your torture or torture with your eggs?
Sheesh, what moron made this poll.
Now, as to global warming, I believe it is all too true and an even more dire and pressing need than we realize.
I love the apologists for the industry that say it doesn't exist. It does.
They seem to be saying that humans can continue to dump billions of tons of carbon into the air (that did not exist 100 years ago) foul up our water with crap and pollute our earth's soil with anything we want and there will be no consequence.
Do you people REALLY believe that we can keep pumping that crap into the earth, water and air by the bucketload and NOT have any consequence?
Do you people REALLY believe that there we can use the planet as our own personal cesspool without reprecussions?
Are you on the same planet I am from? If so, get off so I can clean up after you people. Go somewhere else where you can pour toxic sludge into your groundwater, make electricity from fossil fuels that cause acid rain and hurt your trees.
Are you all ostriches sticking your heads into the sand? Wake up! We clearly cannot keep doing this. We will (if we haven't already) destroy this planet if we do keep going the way we are.
Besides that...wouldn't it really reduce our dependence upon foreign oil if we were to become heavily invested in green energy technology?
Wouldn't being independent from foreign oil make our nation safer and more secure?
I don't know about you guys, but I am all for doing anything that will enable us to tell OPEC "Go screw yourselves. In fact, here is some lubricant to help you out with that."
Why aren't you all down with that?

Where do I start?

This post went the full range, global warming right into liberalism and didn't stop in between.

Let's see, you mentioned toxic waste, do you not purchase anything in your life, that the byproduct of its manufacturer didn't produce "toxic waste".

If you say "I do not purchase anything that created toxic waste" I will say you live a very dismal lifestyle in the 21st century.

Let's look at greenhouse gases for a second, when Mount Pinatubo erupted, NASA had a satellite in place that was able to monitor the eruption. They estimated that one volcanic eruption produced more greenhouse gases than man has in the industrial age.

Now using logic, and I know the term logic really escapes most liberal/environmentalists/care about everything and everybody type people, but here goes.

If one volcano can produce more greenhouse gases than man has in the industrial age, why wasn't the world destroyed eons ago or throughout time for that matter since volcanoes have been a erupting since the dawn of time?

I guess it all depends on what you believe, if you don't believe this planet was created, you'll have the false assumption that man can destroy it. If you in fact believe that this planet was created, you will believe that there is no way that man can destroy it.

So we're back to the old evolution versus creation argument in reality.

I have some advice that might help, if you environmentalists want to dress in burlap, ride bicycles, grow your own food, and live as meager an existence as you can to reduce your footprint on the planet, knock yourselves out.

Just don't try and influence the way I choose to live my life.

[Gentle Taz]

TheKaisho42 wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes. yes, it is the question at hand.
I submit to you that the apologists for industry, waste and fossil fuels will stop at nothing less than unbridled usage unhampered by rules or regulations of their products.
This isnt a thing that is American owend and operated, man.
lokk to China, India or even our close neighbor, Mexico. Ever been down what is left of the Rio Grande River? One of the reasons companies go south is to avoid stringent environmental laws/rules os the US....In Mexico, they heve far less stringent controls...
But their pollution still effects Texas and the other border states, doens't it?
The pollutants don't stay in Mexico, china or India, do they? No. They circumnavigate the globe covering the workld with their mess.
I wish people would quite thinking that as long as it isn't in our backyard, it is cool. The world os not so big anymore, their backyard is our front lawn and vice versa...
We are making leaps in technology without considering the costs or future ramifictions of what we are doing.
And we are laying waste to tracts of land, lakes and oceans that are dying.
Take a look at the algae growth along the shores of both coasts.
Fish are dying and the harvests are getting smaller.
Wake up, people!
Recycle. When someone proposes a wind farm on/near the lake, quit taking a proprietary view of it and saying, "Not on my Lake." It isn't your lake, buddy, it belongs to us all. Use CFL bulbs in your home (I do) and for God's sake, walk or ride a bike when you can. Getting off your fat butts migh thelp your health AND the environment.
Sheesh...I love modern life as much as the next person, but I do not need to have 4 TVs in my home...I can only watch one at a time.
There are about a bizillion things that we al could do to help clean up our environment...sitting around debating whether or not global warming exists is not helping, is it?
Why not pretend, if need be, it does exist? How can having Green coal fired electrical plants, wind and solar farms be BAD for us?
Yeah...debate all you want while the Earth turns to CRAP. Me? I am going to do what I can to help her out.

How are we supposed to stop China, India, or Mexico from polluting? We don't control their nations. In fact, they were all listed as nations exempt from the Kyoto Protocolthat was supposed to do so much good for our earth.

[TheKaisho410298]

mrscsi wrote:

<quoted text>
Where do I start?
This post went the full range, global warming right into liberalism and didn't stop in between.
Let's see, you mentioned toxic waste, do you not purchase anything in your life, that the byproduct of its manufacturer didn't produce "toxic waste".
If you say "I do not purchase anything that created toxic waste" I will say you live a very dismal lifestyle in the 21st century.
Let's look at greenhouse gases for a second, when Mount Pinatubo erupted, NASA had a satellite in place that was able to monitor the eruption. They estimated that one volcanic eruption produced more greenhouse gases than man has in the industrial age.
Now using logic, and I know the term logic really escapes most liberal/environmentalists/care about everything and everybody type people, but here goes.
If one volcano can produce more greenhouse gases than man has in the industrial age, why wasn't the world destroyed eons ago or throughout time for that matter since volcanoes have been a erupting since the dawn of time?
I guess it all depends on what you believe, if you don't believe this planet was created, you'll have the false assumption that man can destroy it. If you in fact believe that this planet was created, you will believe that there is no way that man can destroy it.
So we're back to the old evolution versus creation argument in reality.
I have some advice that might help, if you environmentalists want to dress in burlap, ride bicycles, grow your own food, and live as meager an existence as you can to reduce your footprint on the planet, knock yourselves out.
Just don't try and influence the way I choose to live my life.

StopitStopitStopit....I'M COVERING MY EARS AND CAN'T HEAR YOU STOP MAKING SO MUCH SENSE AAAAHHHHHHH I'M MELTING..........

[TheKaisho42]

mrscsi wrote:

<quoted text>
Where do I start?
This post went the full range, global warming right into liberalism and didn't stop in between.
Let's see, you mentioned toxic waste, do you not purchase anything in your life, that the byproduct of its manufacturer didn't produce "toxic waste".
If you say "I do not purchase anything that created toxic waste" I will say you live a very dismal lifestyle in the 21st century.
Let's look at greenhouse gases for a second, when Mount Pinatubo erupted, NASA had a satellite in place that was able to monitor the eruption. They estimated that one volcanic eruption produced more greenhouse gases than man has in the industrial age.
Now using logic, and I know the term logic really escapes most liberal/environmentalists/care about everything and everybody type people, but here goes.
If one volcano can produce more greenhouse gases than man has in the industrial age, why wasn't the world destroyed eons ago or throughout time for that matter since volcanoes have been a erupting since the dawn of time?
I guess it all depends on what you believe, if you don't believe this planet was created, you'll have the false assumption that man can destroy it. If you in fact believe that this planet was created, you will believe that there is no way that man can destroy it.
So we're back to the old evolution versus creation argument in reality.
I have some advice that might help, if you environmentalists want to dress in burlap, ride bicycles, grow your own food, and live as meager an existence as you can to reduce your footprint on the planet, knock yourselves out.
Just don't try and influence the way I choose to live my life.

Like I said anything about wearing burlap or eating pine cones.

I said, do what you can...not live like a neanderthal...

How can you take my post to mean anything but that?

Did I not say, I love the modern life as much as the next guy? I could have sworn I did.

Look, would it hurt you to buy CFL bulbs? would it kill you to take the plastic from the foods you buy at the store to a recycler? Can you do the same with newspapers and magazines?

Sheesh, man...I am not advocating "getting back to nature" like that, just saying there is some things you can do to help the planet.

Is that so terribly wrong?

[TheKaisho42]

Gentle Taz wrote:

<quoted text>
How are we supposed to stop China, India, or Mexico from polluting? We don't control their nations. In fact, they were all listed as nations exempt from the Kyoto Protocolthat was supposed to do so much good for our earth.

I dont know how we can get others to cooperate, but WE didn't cooperate with Kyoto, either. President Bush refused to sign it for years since its inception.

However, we do have influence and we should use it, diplomatically speaking of course, to get them to conform to a better standard.

We already have the Great Lakes Compact and several other agreements with Canada...WHY can't we get them to do the same with Mexico?

As for China, well, you got me stumped there...but msater people than me could come up with something, I am sure.

Personally, as much a pipe dream as it sounds...I think that if we had "cold fusion" tht would solve our energy problem. I know, I know...most don't think it is really possible. However, there were a lot of very, very smart people that siad we'd never land on the Moon, either or find signs of water on Mars.

We have done both.

I know this sounds corny, but didn't God forbid Adam and Eve to eat the Fruit from the tree of Knowledge because if he did, there would be Nothing beyond his ability to do should he put his mind to it?

[SOS in Rockford]

dragon_fly121 aka steve wrote:

Global Warming?
I remember back in the seventies, going to bed scared to death because the people on the nightly news were talking about the coming ice age and how we were either gonna starve to death, or freeze to death.
And since that didn't happen, they came up with something else to scare everyone. And they call it Global Warming.
I wonder what the next "fad" will be to scare all the lemmings?

Don't forget acid rain.

[dragon_fly121 aka steve]

SOS in Rockford wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't forget acid rain.

Whoopsy....I forgot about that one....my bad....

[SumSamurai]

It's all scare mongery...

The earth had been going on for millions of years, in fact it was hotter at time dinosaurs existed. Anyway the thickness of the ozone layer goes through cycle's. At the moment it is quite thin, but a few 1000 years (i think) we'll be ok again...

[Offering My Truth]

TheKaisho42 wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes. yes, it is the question at hand.
I submit to you that the apologists for industry, waste and fossil fuels will stop at nothing less than unbridled usage unhampered by rules or regulations of their products.
This isnt a thing that is American owend and operated, man.
lokk to China, India or even our close neighbor, Mexico. Ever been down what is left of the Rio Grande River? One of the reasons companies go south is to avoid stringent environmental laws/rules os the US....In Mexico, they heve far less stringent controls...
But their pollution still effects Texas and the other border states, doens't it?
The pollutants don't stay in Mexico, china or India, do they? No. They circumnavigate the globe covering the workld with their mess.
I wish people would quite thinking that as long as it isn't in our backyard, it is cool. The world os not so big anymore, their backyard is our front lawn and vice versa...
We are making leaps in technology without considering the costs or future ramifictions of what we are doing.
And we are laying waste to tracts of land, lakes and oceans that are dying.
Take a look at the algae growth along the shores of both coasts.
Fish are dying and the harvests are getting smaller.
Wake up, people!
Recycle. When someone proposes a wind farm on/near the lake, quit taking a proprietary view of it and saying, "Not on my Lake." It isn't your lake, buddy, it belongs to us all. Use CFL bulbs in your home (I do) and for God's sake, walk or ride a bike when you can. Getting off your fat butts migh thelp your health AND the environment.
Sheesh...I love modern life as much as the next person, but I do not need to have 4 TVs in my home...I can only watch one at a time.
There are about a bizillion things that we al could do to help clean up our environment...sitting around debating whether or not global warming exists is not helping, is it?
Why not pretend, if need be, it does exist? How can having Green coal fired electrical plants, wind and solar farms be BAD for us?
Yeah...debate all you want while the Earth turns to CRAP. Me? I am going to do what I can to help her out.

Me, too. I'm with you. Got my 12 recycling bins in the garage and the 40 mpg car parked in the garage. The CFL bulbs dropped my budget-plan electricity payment by $12 per month.(Although I do admit, we do seem to need 4 TVs in our house.) Global warming or not, how can these habits be anything but good?

People, if you don't do this stuff for the environment, do it for your bank account. Cha-ching..

[Whuteva]

TheKaisho42 wrote:

<quoted text>
I dont know how we can get others to cooperate, but WE didn't cooperate with Kyoto, either. President Bush refused to sign it for years since its inception.
However, we do have influence and we should use it, diplomatically speaking of course, to get them to conform to a better standard.
We already have the Great Lakes Compact and several other agreements with Canada...WHY can't we get them to do the same with Mexico?
As for China, well, you got me stumped there...but msater people than me could come up with something, I am sure.
Personally, as much a pipe dream as it sounds...I think that if we had "cold fusion" tht would solve our energy problem. I know, I know...most don't think it is really possible. However, there were a lot of very, very smart people that siad we'd never land on the Moon, either or find signs of water on Mars.
We have done both.
I know this sounds corny, but didn't God forbid Adam and Eve to eat the Fruit from the tree of Knowledge because if he did, there would be Nothing beyond his ability to do should he put his mind to it?

If you dont learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.

Our history (man kind) is full of examples of waiting until its too late to tackle a problem. Unless there is a short term-direct threat to our way of life we tend to ignore or even demonize a distant or an indirect threat.

Most of us, even myself included in some cases, belong to one of two catagories. We either ignore the threat or dis-credit/demonize it, hoping it goes away.

What you are saying makes complete sense. It goes beyond 'Global Warming' and to me its more about respecting the earth. To hear about garbage washing up on our beaches (in the 21st century!!!) makes me sick. That is an obvious sign that I think everybody agrees is disgusting and should not happen. A less obvious sign is the government allowing a business or industry to pollute our air and water so they can keep their profit margins up. Even though it's less visable and less in-your-face it's 1000 times more destuctive to our earth than garbage washing ashore.

There are those that would rather not hear about it. They would rather put their hands over their ears and tell you that if you have any compassion or respect for this earth you are a fool. I find that disgusting. They wont be happy until this planet is turned into a lifeless rock.

A lot of good their profit margins will do them then.

[TheKaisho42]

Whuteva wrote:

<quoted text>
If you dont learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.
Our history (man kind) is full of examples of waiting until its too late to tackle a problem. Unless there is a short term-direct threat to our way of life we tend to ignore or even demonize a distant or an indirect threat.
Most of us, even myself included in some cases, belong to one of two catagories. We either ignore the threat or dis-credit/demonize it, hoping it goes away.
What you are saying makes complete sense. It goes beyond 'Global Warming' and to me its more about respecting the earth. To hear about garbage washing up on our beaches (in the 21st century!!!) makes me sick. That is an obvious sign that I think everybody agrees is disgusting and should not happen. A less obvious sign is the government allowing a business or industry to pollute our air and water so they can keep their profit margins up. Even though it's less visable and less in-your-face it's 1000 times more destuctive to our earth than garbage washing ashore.
There are those that would rather not hear about it. They would rather put their hands over their ears and tell you that if you have any compassion or respect for this earth you are a fool. I find that disgusting. They wont be happy until this planet is turned into a lifeless rock.
A lot of good their profit margins will do them then.

I still want to know WHY some people actually beleive that we can (and should, which REALLY scares me) dump whatever we want into the air, earth and water with impunity?

I guess as long as they can go to their tap and draw as much clean water out as they want/need, they don't really see the impact of what they do.

Having seen first-hand the oil well fires of the First Persian Gulf War, smelled the burning oil and watched an entire horizon be clouded with ugly black smoke, I can tell you that had to hurt the earth somehow.

I know how destructive Man can be, especially when he puts his mind to it. Maybe Man should start puttinghis mind to being more creative, rather than destructive.

I don't have all the answers and I will never claim to have them. However, I will do what I can to help out.

I wonder what the Earth would be like in, oh, 20 years if everyone on the planet did that?

Probably a much cleaner place.