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jr in stp
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This seems to be a foregone conclusion, so here goes: * Generations of kids were able to get a driver's license at 16 (or younger, depneding on what part of the country you are from). Were there fatalities and injuries? Sure. The only law that will truly save a teenager's life is to prohibit driving altogether until they are 18--and that is not realistic. * Two words: Nanny State. * Why don't we quit punishing 16- and 17-year olds and concentrate enforcement on (for example) getting the repeat DWI offenders off the street/highways? They pose a larger threat to everyone.
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JTY
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It seems that they are playing with the numbers to support their positions. I also wonder how they are going to enforce all this "first 6 months of driving" stuff.
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BackWhen
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I think that the children of MN should be surrendered to the state at birth and kept away from anything potentially dangerous. While wards of the state they can be taught about the benefits of socialism, political correctness, and racial diversity. After a couple of generations of social engineering MN can declare its independence, and then as a sovereign nation we can move towards taking over the entire world. We can put Al Franken and his cloned descendants in charge of everything, and the world will become a generic, mildly amusing utopia.
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GLW
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I find it amazing how cavalier some people view teen fatalities. Vehicle crashes claim more teen lives than the next four causes combined. Minnesota’s graduated driver license laws are inadequate and out of date. Times have changed and we now have millions more drivers, vehicles on the road and miles driven. Teen crashes are an issue for everyone on the roadway because two-thirds of those killed in car crashes with teenage drivers are people other than the teen driver. Furthermore, GDL provisional enforcement is no different than permit enforcement.
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Mrs R
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The only facts that are skewed are that teens are responsible and able to fully handle a license the way the laws are structured now. Data show that teen brains are not fully developed and it's about time the state recognizes this and accomodates it.
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BackWhen
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GLW and Mrs. R, How much more does the State have to do for you? How involved does the government need to be in the lives of its citizens before you are contented? My earlier post was obviously a joke, but how many of these invasive laws do you think it will take before you see the headline, "Undeveloped brains and poor parenting lead state to assume custody of all citizens under age 21". You think that this is far fetched, but look at what has happened to personal responsibility, and individual rights just in the last 25 years. You liberal, pro big government, milktoasts, are just not going to be happy until someone has control over everyone. That is, once again, all that this is about. CONTROL!!!! You just can't be happy when people are responsible for their own actions. There are laws in place to deal with all poor drivers. We simply need to enforce those laws. Punish poor drivers to the fullest extent of the law the first time and they will be less apt to break traffic laws again. Spend the state's (our tax dollars) money on more police and patrol cars, not on studies that somehow cost millions of dollars and tell us things that we already know. I do not think that anyone has viewed teen traffic fatalites in a cavalier way. Todays most cavalier thinking seems to be in regards to rights. Yes, I know that driving is a privlege, not a right, but those priviliges need to be in line with societal responsibilities and independence. What about teens that need vehicles and licenses to get to jobs? What about kids that use their vehicles to participate in sporting events and other school sponsored activities? Think about what you are saying, you are going to take away more rights from people who are old enough to fight and die defending this country. "you can't have a beer or drive a car, but go ahead and go to a foriegn country and die for me." You are selfish, self serving, jerks. Why don't you try to find solutions to problems that don't include taking away rights from those of us who enjoy our liberty. Either that or go back to controlling your own children, husbands, or wives, and leave the rest of us alone.
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jr in stp
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Hallelujah and pass the handcuffs! ;-)
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BackWhen
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Oh, one more thing. When do you suggest that we start teaching children how to be reponsible? How do you suggest we do that? If the new drivers become 20 year olds you will have higher fatalities in that age group. Driving skills improve with experience, not age. There is little enough responsibility given to teens anymore anyway. Why take this away too? If we don't teach reponsibility when they are children, how in the name of goddto you think we can teach it when they are already adults?
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jr in stp
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I wonder what the data would show if the brains of legislators were studied?
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JTY
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Mrs R wrote: The only facts that are skewed are that teens are responsible and able to fully handle a license the way the laws are structured now. Data show that teen brains are not fully developed and it's about time the state recognizes this and accomodates it. Or, this... "The death rate takes into account all teens who die in vehicle crashes, including pedestrians or bicyclists who are struck by cars." With the numbers they are using, it doesn't even matter if the kids are in a car or walking/biking down the street. When you consider how many of these kids walk/bike vs. adults it is very skewed.
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BackWhen
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JTY wrote: <quoted text>
Or, this...
"The death rate takes into account all teens who die in vehicle crashes, including pedestrians or bicyclists who are struck by cars."
With the numbers they are using, it doesn't even matter if the kids are in a car or walking/biking down the street. When you consider how many of these kids walk/bike vs. adults it is very skewed. Excellent point!!
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Realistic
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BackWhen wrote: GLW and Mrs. R,
How much more does the State have to do for you?
How involved does the government need to be in the lives of its citizens before you are contented? My earlier post was obviously a joke, but how many of these invasive laws do you think it will take before you see the headline, "Undeveloped brains and poor parenting lead state to assume custody of all citizens under age 21". You think that this is far fetched, but look at what has happened to personal responsibility, and individual rights just in the last 25 years. You liberal, pro big government, milktoasts, are just not going to be happy until someone has control over everyone. That is, once again, all that this is about. CONTROL!!!! You just can't be happy when people are responsible for their own actions. There are laws in place to deal with all poor drivers. We simply need to enforce those laws. Punish poor drivers to the fullest extent of the law the first time and they will be less apt to break traffic laws again. Spend the state's (our tax dollars) money on more police and patrol cars, not on studies that somehow cost millions of dollars and tell us things that we already know.
I do not think that anyone has viewed teen traffic fatalites in a cavalier way. Todays most cavalier thinking seems to be in regards to rights. Yes, I know that driving is a privlege, not a right, but those priviliges need to be in line with societal responsibilities and independence. What about teens that need vehicles and licenses to get to jobs? What about kids that use their vehicles to participate in sporting events and other school sponsored activities? Think about what you are saying, you are going to take away more rights from people who are old enough to fight and die defending this country. "you can't have a beer or drive a car, but go ahead and go to a foriegn country and die for me." You are selfish, self serving, jerks. Why don't you try to find solutions to problems that don't include taking away rights from those of us who enjoy our liberty. Either that or go back to controlling your own children, husbands, or wives, and leave the rest of us alone. Very well said Backwhen, I couldn't agree more.
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John - St Paul
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Fascinating...in North Carolina, i out of 7 fatalities involves an illegal alien (gee, I wonder if they're licensed and insured). In MN, 1 16-17 year old in 2,500 is involved. Have these DFL lackeys in St Paul lost their collective minds? Looks like!
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Red Ryder
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why let teens drive at all?...'if it saves just one life'...
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Red Ryder
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John - St Paul wrote: Fascinating...in North Carolina, i out of 7 fatalities involves an illegal alien (gee, I wonder if they're licensed and insured). In MN, 1 16-17 year old in 2,500 is involved. Have these DFL lackeys in St Paul lost their collective minds? Looks like! maybe the teens need a "sanctuary city"...
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John - St Paul
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Red Ryder wrote: <quoted text>
maybe the teens need a "sanctuary city"... Sure, how about Omaha?
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Bob
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Wiger = Old Pothead! Empty skull, nothing to study! ========== jr in stp wrote: I wonder what the data would show if the brains of legislators were studied?
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“Vote Conservative”
Joined: Feb 9, 2008
St. Paul
ISP Location:
Saint Paul, MN
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How about better and more drivers training. When I did my drivers training in the early 80's I was required to complete 6 hours of behind the wheel training in the booming metropolis of Ely, MN. I really learned how to drive under those conditions, NOT! After moving to the Twin Cities my father rode with me a lot and taught me how to really drive. He was professionally trained in the Military and in the MN EMS driving classes. Only after he taught me real driving skills and lots of experience did I become a safe driver. And after I started riding motorcycle I really improved my skills. There's nothing like hanging out in the open on a motorcycle at 60+ mph to wake you up to the cars around you. More training and more enforcement of existing laws is what we all need. More laws only make legislators feel good because they can tell themselves and the news media that "They Did Something". Vote Conservative http://www.wilgeno.com
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BackWhen
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Wilgeno wrote: How about better and more drivers training. When I did my drivers training in the early 80's I was required to complete 6 hours of behind the wheel training in the booming metropolis of Ely, MN. I really learned how to drive under those conditions, NOT! After moving to the Twin Cities my father rode with me a lot and taught me how to really drive. He was professionally trained in the Military and in the MN EMS driving classes. Only after he taught me real driving skills and lots of experience did I become a safe driver. And after I started riding motorcycle I really improved my skills. There's nothing like hanging out in the open on a motorcycle at 60+ mph to wake you up to the cars around you. More training and more enforcement of existing laws is what we all need. More laws only make legislators feel good because they can tell themselves and the news media that "They Did Something". Vote Conservative http://www.wilgeno.com Good ideas wilgeno, look at all of the ideas on here that don't include limiting the rights of others. Just apply some common sense to a problem and good things happen. How come when liberals think up new ideas the solutions always include higher taxes and less freedom?
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Red Ryder
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headline is a typo-should read: "CASH stats bolster push to restrict teen drivers"
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Judge it!
