Utah custody fight complicated by tri...

Utah custody fight complicated by tribal law

There are 372 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Dec 24, 2008, titled Utah custody fight complicated by tribal law. In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

Heather and Clint Larson hoped they'd be spending Christmas with a newly adopted 6-month-old boy.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TwinCities.com.

Anonymous

Kaysville, UT

#141 Mar 8, 2009
By the way, Jake.... You need to "get a grip" that you are full of the same ignorance this tribe is proving to have. You don't sound like a very fulfilled or happy person, or one that has any compassion. I may be wrong. There is only so much you can tell about a person on the computer, but seriously.....why so full of hate? It's almost like you enjoy the Larson's pain. It's almost like you're happy when things don't go right for them. Why? Wouldn't an outcome that makes it so Talon is safe and loved in his home with the Larsons better than what is happening now?
Buttercup

Gore Bay, Canada

#142 Mar 9, 2009
"Wouldn't an outcome that makes it so Talon is safe and loved in his home with the Larsons better than what is happening now?"

I 100% agree
Jake

United States

#143 Mar 9, 2009
Anonymous wrote:
By the way, Jake.... You need to "get a grip" that you are full of the same ignorance this tribe is proving to have. You don't sound like a very fulfilled or happy person, or one that has any compassion. I may be wrong. There is only so much you can tell about a person on the computer, but seriously.....why so full of hate? It's almost like you enjoy the Larson's pain. It's almost like you're happy when things don't go right for them. Why? Wouldn't an outcome that makes it so Talon is safe and loved in his home with the Larsons better than what is happening now?
No, taking Destino away from any hope of reunification with his parents, and placing him back in an illegal adoption, is not what is best for him. Furthermore, if he is ultimately placed for adoption, it is best that it not be with parents who think his mother is pond scum.
Anonymous

Kaysville, UT

#144 Mar 11, 2009
First of all Jake, I highly doubt Heather Larson would ever discuss thinking Natasha is "pond scum." and you know what...truth hurts sometimes anyway! Plus, what do you think about a woman that calls and rubs it in the Larson's face that they can't see their son???? The adoption is what Natasha wanted in the first place...so it was not illegal until she flipped on them. How in the world do you think a child is better off lost in the system than with a loving family? Just answer that question. By the way...any family that he would go to, would think Natasha is a troubled woman who in reality, could not put her children FIRST. Any family will feel the same way about her who has a normal working mind! Your arguments are very weak Jake. Only full of hate and negativity!
Buttercup

Ottawa, Canada

#145 Mar 14, 2009
Jake.... you sound like a bitter little person who is mad at the world and is full of hate.

The Larson's love Talon and that is why they continue to fight for him. Just like any mother who loves her child would.

If the Larson's think the woman who gave birth to Talon is 'pond scum'... Guess what? They have every reason to, just like all the other normal people out there. Natasha can't even remember what hospital she gave birth to Talon in...

I'm also interested in your reply to the questions, " what do you think about a woman that calls and rubs it in the Larson's face that they can't see their son???? " and "How in the world do you think a child is better off lost in the system than with a loving family?"
Anonymous

Kaysville, UT

#146 Mar 14, 2009
Buttercup...well said, as usual!
Jake

United States

#147 Mar 14, 2009
Buttercup wrote:
The Larson's love Talon and that is why they continue to fight for him. Just like any mother who loves her child would.
But Destino is not Heather Larson's child. He is Natasha Roybal's child. I do not get why that is so hard for people like you to understand.

It was a failed placement. That happens when the law is not followed. Is that really so difficult to grasp?
If the Larson's think the woman who gave birth to Talon is 'pond scum'... Guess what? They have every reason to, just like all the other normal people out there. Natasha can't even remember what hospital she gave birth to Talon in...
That makes the Larsons poor candidates to be adoptive parents. No child should ever be adopted out to a family that has no respect for his birth parents, and demeans them far and wide. Adopted children have enough trouble as it is. They don't need to be told they came from defective stock.
I'm also interested in your reply to the questions, " what do you think about a woman that calls and rubs it in the Larson's face that they can't see their son???? " and "How in the world do you think a child is better off lost in the system than with a loving family?"
Once again, Destino is not the Larsons' son. He is Natasha Roybal's son. Is it nice of her to call and be mean about that? No. But it wasn't nice of the Larsons to slander her in the media and in a blog either. So I think they're about even.

As to the "lost in the system" question, if Destino is ultimately reunited with his parents, then he is not "lost in the system." Should he in the end be placed for adoption because reunification fails, he will be placed with parents that don't say horrible things about his mother. And that is a good outcome.
Anonymous

Florissant, CO

#148 Mar 15, 2009
Jake, if you had children of your own, you would understand that sometimes you may discuss things with others...but not with your children. Some things aren't appropriate to discuss with your children, and I doubt Heather Larson would ever paint a horrible picture of his birth mom to Talon. She seems a lot more responsible than that. Heather Larson became Talon's mother when Natasha handed him over to her. It wasn't Natasha that sat with Talon in the hospital when he was having withdraws from her drugs...it wasn't Natasha that saw his first smile or woke up with him at night through the newborn phase. She CHOSE Heather as Talon's mom. A baby isn't something you say "Oh well...thanks for loving him and taking care of him for all this time, now I want him back!" Like I said before....if Natasha doesn't want to be looked at as "pond scum," maybe she shouldn't have made decisions that lead her to that. The Larsons have every right to feel betrayed by her. Like I said before..any normal person would think she's done a crappy thing to her children, herself and the Larsons...but most of all, to Talon.

Since: Mar 09

Salt Lake City, UT

#149 Mar 17, 2009
Jake, you are ridiculous. Of course the mother can't kick the habit during pregnancy. But don't you think that after facing 2 other pregnancies with the addiction, and seeing what it has done to her other children that she would then stop? I know as a mother that if I were in that situation, I would get all the help I would need to get off of the drugs. I don't care if they locked me up in a room for a year, I would never even dream of putting another child in that position again. And as far as sympathy goes, I feel very sorry for the Larson's. They are a loving family who just wanted to open their family to a little boy who was going to be born in a bad situation and they gave all of their love to him. If I were Heather Larson, I would have ran. No child deserves to be in that situation. I don't care if she is the birth mother, she should have thought about that BEFORE, first getting on drugs, picked a family, FLEW OUT TO UTAH TO MEET THEM, and have the baby there so the family could be a part of it, leave the baby there with them, and then take him back. Talk about going to hell and back. It is really sad that you have no sympathy for them. You must be some cold individual roasting in the Arizona heat.

Since: Mar 09

Salt Lake City, UT

#150 Mar 17, 2009
And the Larson's aren't slamming anyone. They are telling their side of the story. A blog is there to express yourself. Even if they were slamming her, she can do whatever she wants on that blog, IT'S HERS. And at least they aren't leaving threatening comments on her blog, or making mean phone calls. They seem like a genuine family who has had their hearts broken in the worst way.
Susan

Englewood, CO

#151 Mar 18, 2009
Jake, you are so right on!

Most of you people are simply blind to the law, and the facts.

This baby is not a piece of meat that the Larsens can "claim" to own, even if they "love" this baby.

Faith is a powerful thing. And sadly, the Larsens put their faith in a private adoption agency whose job is to make money. There. I said it.

I pray that the Larsens MOVE ON. This is not their baby. It NEVER was their baby. This adoption has horrible warning signs all over it. Maybe they could have, I don't know, looked into adopting one of the tens of thousands of little ones in FOSTER CARE???? But I forget, this is the day of paying for what you want, if you're wealthy enough. And I assume the Larsens were hardly working-class!

Our great country's laws exist, sometimes, to protect the most unsympathetic individuals. And an impoverished, American Indian, probably unstable woman is just BEGGING to be taken advantage of.

I say, "Hooray!" Destino is back in his rightful community, surrounded by his family, his siblings, and his tribal heritage.

And no non-Indian person is EVER going to understand what that means.

I am speaking as a proud parent and auntie!

My sympathy to the Larsens, truly, but get some professional and spiritual help and move on.
NOYB

Salt Lake City, UT

#152 Mar 18, 2009
SUSAN AND JAKE!!! YOU ARE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!! STOP ACTING AS THOUGH YOU ARE VICTIMS BECAUSE YOU'RE INDIAN. GIVE ME BREAK!! THE LARSON'S AND TALON ARE THE VICTIMS FROM A MESSED UP LAW!! JUST LIKE THE GOVERNMENT TO PUT IN PLACE A SCREWED UP LAW!! YOU ARE THE KIND OF PEOPLE THAT THINK GOVERNMENT IN THE ANSWER TO ALL YOUR PROBLEMS!! HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE PEOPLE YOU ARE!! STOP PLAYING THE RACE CARD, AND GET OVER IT!!

Since: Mar 09

Salt Lake City, UT

#153 Mar 18, 2009
Ya, he is back with a drug abusing mother, HOORAY FOR THE LAW! You people need to get a life. If she didn't want to go through this in the first place, she shouldn't have put him up for adoption. This is all her fault. The larson's thought they were going to be getting a beautiful baby boy, instead they got a nice big slap in the face. I have a friend who just adopted a little girl, and the moment they took her in their arms, they fell in love. How can you blame the Larson's for getting attached? They thought they would have him forever.
Buttercup

Minneapolis, MN

#154 Mar 18, 2009
chyncha09 wrote:
Ya, he is back with a drug abusing mother, HOORAY FOR THE LAW! You people need to get a life. If she didn't want to go through this in the first place, she shouldn't have put him up for adoption. This is all her fault. The larson's thought they were going to be getting a beautiful baby boy, instead they got a nice big slap in the face. I have a friend who just adopted a little girl, and the moment they took her in their arms, they fell in love. How can you blame the Larson's for getting attached? They thought they would have him forever.
Well said!!
The Larson family does not deserve this neither does baby Talon. So sad that those in power have put this family through this hell!! Talon will have lasting effects that were caused by being ripped out or the arms of a loving family who have been there for him from day one. That first attachment is formed between 0 and 6 months. The Larsons were the ones there while Talon was in the hospital recovering from being born into this world addicted to drugs. His bio mom couldn't look after his best interests before he was born..what makes anyone think she will now?
Buttercup

Minneapolis, MN

#155 Mar 18, 2009
Susan wrote:
Jake, you are so right on!
Most of you people are simply blind to the law, and the facts.
This baby is not a piece of meat that the Larsens can "claim" to own, even if they "love" this baby.
Faith is a powerful thing. And sadly, the Larsens put their faith in a private adoption agency whose job is to make money. There. I said it.
I pray that the Larsens MOVE ON. This is not their baby. It NEVER was their baby. This adoption has horrible warning signs all over it. Maybe they could have,
I don't know, looked into adopting one of the tens of thousands of little ones in FOSTER CARE???? But I forget, this is the day of paying for what you want, if you're wealthy enough. And I assume the Larsens were hardly working-class!
Our great country's laws exist, sometimes, to protect the most unsympathetic individuals. And an impoverished, American Indian, probably unstable woman is just BEGGING to be taken advantage of.
I say, "Hooray!" Destino is back in his rightful community, surrounded by his family, his siblings, and his tribal heritage.
And no non-Indian person is EVER going to understand what that means.
I am speaking as a proud parent and auntie!
My sympathy to the Larsens, truly, but get some professional and spiritual help and move on.
Who peed in your corn flakes this morning?

The Larson's happen to be a very strong in their faith.

Please post only factual information.

Our prayers are with the Larson family and for the safety of baby Talon. May the Creator step in bless all those involved and comfort those in need of His comfort.
Buttercup

Minneapolis, MN

#156 Mar 18, 2009
One last thing Susan.. one does not have to be brown skinned and Indian to know the meaning of FAMILY ! One could be green, yellow, purple, white, blue, black, and still know the meaning of FAMILY and the VALUE of FAMILY!! I happen to love my family and my family roots run deep. I am very blessed to be apart of such a loving close knit family. The FAMILY is the most important unit that the Creator placed here upon the face of the earth. He created us all equal. I love my multiracial family!!!!
Jake

United States

#157 Mar 19, 2009
chyncha09 wrote:
If she didn't want to go through this in the first place, she shouldn't have put him up for adoption.
Disrupted placements are not common, but they are not unheard of either.

There is a reason that a woman cannot sign over her parental rights before her child is born. She may feel quite differently once she sees her baby.

There are a lot of reasons this placement never should have occurred, but a huge one is that Natasha changed her mind before the TPR paperwork was signed, and she was coerced by the agency into signing anyway. The Larsons were notified of other issues with the placement shortly thereafter (lack of consent from the father, ICWA issues), and they tried to prolong the placement by going to court. If anyone is at fault here, it is the agency and the Larsons.
Anonymous

Kaysville, UT

#158 Mar 19, 2009
ICWA laws need to be changed....desperately! Just to protect a certain race, means that the individual child is not protected. That is ridiculous. All I can say is that NO MATTER WHAT, above any law, the final say should be what is best for the child. If a child already has a loving home, why reverse that? Why pull a child out and put them in questionable environments? Just because Talon is part indian means a white family can't adopt him? Can you only imagine if this situation was reversed and it was a white child being pulled from an indian family? I know there must be certain laws in place to protect people...however, what if sometimes it just doesn't make sense? I'm sure Heather Larson would've taught him about his heritage. Maybe not as much as he could learn if he was in the tribe...but right now, he is just a number in the system. He went from being a family's whole world, to a number. Sad. I still pray for him everyday, and hope he can be reunited with his family that loves him SO much!
Jake

United States

#159 Mar 19, 2009
Anonymous wrote:
ICWA laws need to be changed....desperately! Just to protect a certain race, means that the individual child is not protected. That is ridiculous. All I can say is that NO MATTER WHAT, above any law, the final say should be what is best for the child. If a child already has a loving home, why reverse that? Why pull a child out and put them in questionable environments?
I dunno... Maybe because there were other problems with the placement besides the fact that the ICWA applies? Like, the parents were married and the agency failed to get the father's consent as required by law?

You seem to be saying that no matter how many legal issues there are with a placement, if the would-be adopters can find a judge to say their home is "better" than the home of the child's parents, the would-be adopters should be able to keep the child. Do you also think that people who kidnap a child should be allowed to keep him, as long as their home is "better" than the parents' home?
TaxTaxTax

Portland, OR

#160 Mar 19, 2009
159 comments so far. Not one mentions the other 50 million aborted kids who have no one fighting over them!

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