Superintendent: Bad tenured teachers hard to fire

[Georgie B]

Just Another Teacher wrote:

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Oh yes, please, me too!!!

Sounds like you want it really bad.

Perhaps you're one of those....

[Something to think about]

TRUTH wrote:

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You didn't ask me , but first I don't think teachers really have any accountability to the community to begin with, and parents are often treated as if their opinions don't count, so I would propose that at the end of each school year parents are allowed to fill out an evaluation on their kid's teacher, similar to the ones students fill out on their instructors at the end of each semester.
Second, I feel that raises should be based on merit and job performance, and that increases shouldn't automatically be the same for every teacher.
Teachers often complain that they would earn more money in the private sector, well in that venue people earn their raises.
Parents should also be able to evaluate the curriculum.

I agree that teachers should be evaluated but by the people who are trained to evaluate teachers. Just as I would not come into your job and evaluate you. I have no problem with administrators, the state, etc... coming in. I don't think many people would.

You can have parents fill out evaluations, but that would only count as some aspect of the process. While I think many parents are fair, and would take it seriously, there are many things that could get into the way especially at my level (high school)- grades ie - made they are not getting an A (college).

And if they should evaluate - come in for at least 4 class periods throughout the year. It would only be fair to see what is going on in the classroom - than what is being said at home.

Finally, sure evaulate teachers on performance. We already are for the most part. NCLB, SAT scores, CAPT scores. But there would also be many factors to consider: we are in the age where the push is for "no leveling" so the kids that are A students in my school are sitting with D students, special ed kids performance (for many of them they are thrilled to recived a C or D sometime!) and some get A's!, some kids don't test well... etc..

So again, come on in! No problem here. Just make it fair and come to see what I am doing a few times a year. We love when parents come in not a problem.

Oh last note - with accreditation process parents are given many surveys, invited to join committees with teachers. It was real lovely actually to have them evalate our school (curriculum and the whole). I know in NE this goes on every 10 years. Believe me the process is exhaustive but makes you proud of your school and the community when involved sees the assets and weaknesses of the school as well.

[Arlington Teacher]

Konnecticut_Better_Yet wrote:

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In CT, teachers work 185 days, roughly half a year for a full-years salary, benefits and pension. Yes, it is part time.

Helloooooooo???????? People with full time jobs generally work 220 - 230 days because they don't work weekends, they get holidays off, they get sick leave, vacation days......I am a Texas teacher, have a 187 day contract. I just finished a week long AP conference, which I did not get paid for. I attend meetings, do staff development, grade papers, call parents, work on lesson plans, write notes, tests, quizzes, etc. and as my husband can attest to, work a LOT longer day than 7 hours a day.

[Something to think about]

Arlington Teacher wrote:

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Helloooooooo???????? People with full time jobs generally work 220 - 230 days because they don't work weekends, they get holidays off, they get sick leave, vacation days......I am a Texas teacher, have a 187 day contract. I just finished a week long AP conference, which I did not get paid for. I attend meetings, do staff development, grade papers, call parents, work on lesson plans, write notes, tests, quizzes, etc. and as my husband can attest to, work a LOT longer day than 7 hours a day.

I wholeheartedly agree.. but sorry you may be waging a battle that isn't too popular around here. I guess a few bad apples ruin the bunch?

Can't we make fun of another profession for a minute - lawyers, etc...(wink, wink) JUST KIDDING :):)

[CLO]

Something to think about wrote:

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Can't we make fun of another profession for a minute - lawyers, etc...(wink, wink) JUST KIDDING :):)

Ha ha... You know, I have never sat around and picked apart another profession the way I see others do to teaching. Believe me, there some professions that have questionable events/people associated with them, but I would never spend my time or energy kvetching/insulting them like this. I really get the sense that many of the people here who have been really harsh have had negative experiences, either themselves as students or with their children as students. Any experience that is personal, usually garners a more personal reaction/attack. It's just a hunch...

[Molly is my name]

ddny wrote:

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I asked a friend of mine who is a retired hs parochial school teacher, and yes they do have tenure. They belong to the Teachers Union. They must have a bachelor's and be state certified. They do not have to have a Masters within any certain time period. She says that may have changed in recent years though.

You can not get state certification in NY without your Masters. You can get provisional certification but you must get your Masters within a few years to have full certification. The provisional certification expires.

[Conservative American]

Hey CLO....

My wife is a dermatologist.What a career choice it is.You never cure anyone,you never kill anyone and you make tons of money!$$$$$$

[LI viewer]

Chris Nielsen wrote:

This story, and others like it, are attempts to sully tenure in order to terminate tenure itself, and the reason: because schools do not want to pay tenured teachers and professors. It is that simple. It is also an assault on the credentials which teachers and professors must attain through the tenure process. As with doping young boys with Ritalin, this is just another dummying down of our nation and the bottom line is saving a couple dollars. Welcome to the United States of Enron.

Teacher's would rather give a child ritalin instead of doing their jobs, a child who is active is labeled hyper by a teacher who is just there to get a paycheck and can't be bothered taking the time to do his or her job!!!

[CLO]

LI viewer wrote:

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Teacher's would rather give a child ritalin instead of doing their jobs, a child who is active is labeled hyper by a teacher who is just there to get a paycheck and can't be bothered taking the time to do his or her job!!!

Oh Christ, here we go again--we all drug children, blah blah blah... Drugs are the parent's choice, period. But have you ever had a class of 30, with a few ADHD kids thrown in the mix? It's enough to make most people who aren't cut out for teaching run OUT of the classroom. What may be tolerable to some parents as far as ADHD behaviors in the home, can be beyond challenging in a class full of kids of all types. Depending on the severity of the ADHD case, it can be a LIFE challenge. By the way, this issue seems to hit home with you for some reason...?

[CLO]

Conservative American wrote:

Hey CLO....
My wife is a dermatologist.What a career choice it is.You never cure anyone,you never kill anyone and you make tons of money!$$$$$$

:)

[Georgie B]

ADHD and ADD is joke diagnosis, designed to drug out the children of today.

CLO wrote:

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Oh Christ, here we go again--we all drug children, blah blah blah... Drugs are the parent's choice, period. But have you ever had a class of 30, with a few ADHD kids thrown in the mix? It's enough to make most people who aren't cut out for teaching run OUT of the classroom. What may be tolerable to some parents as far as ADHD behaviors in the home, can be beyond challenging in a class full of kids of all types. Depending on the severity of the ADHD case, it can be a LIFE challenge. By the way, this issue seems to hit home with you for some reason...?

[Sparky]

LI viewer wrote:

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Teacher's would rather give a child ritalin instead of doing their jobs, a child who is active is labeled hyper by a teacher who is just there to get a paycheck and can't be bothered taking the time to do his or her job!!!

It is unethical and illegal for a CT teacher to suggest to a parent that a child receive any type of medication or to suggest a dosage be either increased or decreased. LI viewer, please explain how the NY law works.

[Just Another Teacher]

CLO wrote:

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Ha ha... You know, I have never sat around and picked apart another profession the way I see others do to teaching. Believe me, there some professions that have questionable events/people associated with them, but I would never spend my time or energy kvetching/insulting them like this. I really get the sense that many of the people here who have been really harsh have had negative experiences, either themselves as students or with their children as students. Any experience that is personal, usually garners a more personal reaction/attack. It's just a hunch...

..and a very good one, at that. Thanks and welcome to the thread.

[DeNut Now]

Suffolk County Dude...you are one f _ _ _ _ d up individual. Wish we could simply delete you instead of just your posts.

[Jen Kenne]

What incredible insight! It is difficult to fire a tenured teacher.

[Just Another Teacher]

CLO wrote:

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Ha ha... You know, I have never sat around and picked apart another profession the way I see others do to teaching. Believe me, there some professions that have questionable events/people associated with them, but I would never spend my time or energy kvetching/insulting them like this. I really get the sense that many of the people here who have been really harsh have had negative experiences, either themselves as students or with their children as students. Any experience that is personal, usually garners a more personal reaction/attack. It's just a hunch...

Yes, you will probably get clobbered for this one, but it definitely needs to keep being said.

I've given up trying to let people who have no idea what our job entails, in on the numerous tasks and the time involved in accomplishing them. They see us as public SERVANTS only.
When people talk about how awful our system is
in comparison to other countries, the comparison stops there. No matter that teachers in every other country are regarded in a completely different way than they are here in the U.S. I'm hesitant to even start listing the differences, as I am sure I will be attacked for whining and wanting to be treated in the same way as the teachers we are being compared to are. At the very top of the list, however, would be some respect.
To those of you who are not teachers but have spoken up in support, thank you several times over for that. You have already had the decency to at least consider what we are trying to accomplish in public education in this country,and the way the odds are stacked against us.
Most of us teachers have had many wonderful moments with our students and their parents that provide us with memories that can nullify anything anyone may say on this thread. I have families where I have had 2-3 siblings in my class, over the years, and I can't think of any better way to show me that those parents have faith and confidence in my teaching abilities. Not to mention the test scores. With the results I have seen from my students over the years, I am confident that I am doing an extremely good job. Especially since we have started teaching to students' learning styles and modalities and letting their strengths and weaknesses guide our instruction.
As always, most of us love teaching and being with children, and that is why we are in the classroom to begin with. Again, I am so very lucky that my spouse's career is in the private sector, so that I can continue teaching without overwhelming concern for the welfare of my family. There are many teachers who can't or couldn't, and they are now either considering another field altogether (in the private sector), or already in one, missing those beautiful faces and "lightbulb" moments terribly.
Thank you, CLO, for the kindness, support and most of all, respect.

[Sarah]

Georgie B wrote:

ADHD and ADD is joke diagnosis, designed to drug out the children of today.<quoted text>

And also to cover up poor parenting skills when the kids are not taught self control and proper manners. I have noticed that many families do not have just one child with "ADD".

[Sarah]

Sparky wrote:

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It is unethical and illegal for a CT teacher to suggest to a parent that a child receive any type of medication or to suggest a dosage be either increased or decreased. LI viewer, please explain how the NY law works.

Absolutely, we can not say anything about medicating children. It is not our place.

[Just Another Teacher]

Molly is my name wrote:

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You can not get state certification in NY without your Masters. You can get provisional certification but you must get your Masters within a few years to have full certification. The provisional certification expires.

MOLLY, WHERE IS YOUR PICTURE???? I really missed it and we really missed you. Welcome back but I wish you aere still using that mugshot.

[Just Another Teacher]

LI viewer wrote:

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Teacher's would rather give a child ritalin instead of doing their jobs, a child who is active is labeled hyper by a teacher who is just there to get a paycheck and can't be bothered taking the time to do his or her job!!!

Yeah, right. We've already been there, done that.