Fuel hike has some fuming

[Clueless on the right]

TomIslander wrote:

<quoted text>
Another escaped mental patient voting for the Democrat party. Wow you guys are something.

You're clueless on the radical right. And in 252 days, you are good and truly hung out to dry.

Enjoy it while you can, skippy. You're toast..

[Willy]

Deb wrote:

Oil companies made historical profits, so that means the price of gas and heatin oil do NOT have to be that high. Does anyone notice how the unduly elected gorilla in the White House is calling for drilling in Alaska? His buddies are strangle-holding the American consumer so we'll have no choice but to vote for exploring for oil in Alaska. Why don't his friends just stop looting our pocketbooks, take smaller profits, and leave the damn economy alone?

Do Hollywood movie studios lower ticket prices everytime a blockbuster movie makes 300% on the money they invested to make a movie? Yes oil companies make "record" profits of 10 to 15% of the money they invest to bring oil to American consumers who were spoiled with cheap oil from the 1990s.(Ditch the SUVs) Time to wake up and start behaving like real consumers as they do in Europe where prices that have always been double what we pay and has forced them to conserve. This is a real life lesson in econimics!

[TomIslander]

Clueless on the right wrote:

<quoted text>
You're clueless on the radical right. And in 252 days, you are good and truly hung out to dry.
Enjoy it while you can, skippy. You're toast..

Haha right. You guys are at each other's throats between Obama and Hillary, meanwhile John McCain (not my choice, I don't like him, but I'm not voting Democrat) is on easy street. Keep dreaming, your inward fighting is making us all smile.

[Effin eh]

TomIslander wrote:

<quoted text>
Haha right. You guys are at each other's throats between Obama and Hillary, meanwhile John McCain (not my choice, I don't like him, but I'm not voting Democrat) is on easy street. Keep dreaming, your inward fighting is making us all smile.

Hello? Bob Barr?

Toast.

[the end]

Patrick wrote:

Observation: four years ago is when the runup in oil prices began. I recall hearing an oil company quote that said the price rise brought the american price more in line with world prices. Now, for those who do not know, for many years americans paid less than the rest of the world. I remember hearing about europeans paying 4 dollars a gallon years ago. In case you missed it, that means the oil companies raised their prices without any other justification other than what the other guys are paying. Their excess profits prove that. On-the-highway robbery! Supply and demand means they have the supply and they demand what they want.

It also significant that higher European prices were a result of higher taxes on fuel. At least there the higher prices were both an effort to induce conservation and use the tax for public use. In the USA the higher cost goes to private profit with no public benefit. Just another example of US decline that is inevitable.

[Please Spare Me]

Broke taxpayer wrote:

<quoted text>
What is your point? I do not have to buy gasoline if I don't mind mass transit.
My point is don't complain about profits in $$$$. The question is are they making obscene profits and the answer is no. Just a decent rate of return. And by the way no one seemed to care when these energy stocks were in the dumpster due to low price of oil. Everyone just got giddy and bought energy hog cars and suvs, and now the bill is coming due. The age of cheap gas is gone, buy a bicycle.

\

I bought a fuel efficient car, thank goodness. You're above analagy doesn't quite work though....how do you heat your home? The gas isn't my problem, heating oil is what is REALLY squeezing me.

[Please Spare Me]

Broke taxpayer wrote:

<quoted text>
No you get a clue. What is your point? The Government should control oil prices? We live a capitalist society plain and simple. Companies are in business to make a profit and that is what the oil companies are doing. My point SKIPPY is that their profits are reasonable, when compared to other companies. Now buy the bike I told you about because oil is not getting cheaper.

The Government should release part of the reserve.

[the end]

foolzrushin wrote:

<quoted text>
Here's part 3:
PART 3:
You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:
Boy am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the
Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.
I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.
I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they
are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have
included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.
1.$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
each year by state governments. Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2.$2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs
such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.ci s..org/articles/2004/fiscalexe c.html
3.$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spe nt on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://www.ci s..org/articles/2004/fiscalexe c.html
4.$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of
English! Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...
5.$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. Verify
at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...
6.$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. Verify
at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...
8.$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
social services by the American taxpayers. Verify at:
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt...
9.$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by
the illegal aliens. Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/0...
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two
and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their
children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/1...
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Verify at:
Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute,'estimated that the total cost of mass
deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.' Verify
at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/de...
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to
their countries of origin. Verify at:
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14.'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes
Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.' Verify at:
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
Are we THAT stupid?

These tax rates are not entirely accurate. It should also be noted that inflation in real terms is much higher in the last 3 years due to Bush policies. Also, there is NO comparison in wage growth. The Bush era for 75% of the public is at best flat. In addition the trade deficit, national debt and wasteful war spending has committed, I repeat committed, the US to a near zero economic future growth in the short term, maybe longer. Anyone who who thinks bush has succeeded in anything is a fool and deserves the future that is likely.

[Real Facts]

the end wrote:

<quoted text>
These tax rates are not entirely accurate. It should also be noted that inflation in real terms is much higher in the last 3 years due to Bush policies. Also, there is NO comparison in wage growth. The Bush era for 75% of the public is at best flat. In addition the trade deficit, national debt and wasteful war spending has committed, I repeat committed, the US to a near zero economic future growth in the short term, maybe longer. Anyone who who thinks bush has succeeded in anything is a fool and deserves the future that is likely.

Ok, here we go with all the Bush Bashing.

While President Bush may not be the best president ever, he is far from the worst, IMHO.

Many people seem to want to blame him for all the worlds’ troubles. Well, He is not the only one to blame.

As I have mentioned before, the first WTC attack, the Oklahoma City bombing, Khobar Towers, the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and the attack on the USS Cole all happened on Bill Clinton’s watch, as did the planning of the September 11th attacks. All of these attacks, with the excepting of the Oklahoma City Federal building, were performed by Middle Eastern Islamic militants between the ages of 18 and 39 years old.

I am also not a conspiracy theorist, but about one third of witnesses interviewed by the NTSB said they saw a streak of light hear towards TWA flight 800. While the official issue is an exploding fuel tank, there are many people that feel this is a terrorist act. If so, this was also on President Clinton’s watch.

Further, al-Qaeda was established during Bill Clinton’s presidency. Further, there were no fewer than 12 chances for US forces to eliminate the Bin Laden threat during Bill Clinton’s presidency, yet he chose not to pursue them.

Since the 2001 attacks, there has not been another attack on US soil. There have been attacks in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Greece and Algeria. This is not due to a lack of trying by al-Qaeda.

Gas prices have begun to sore since the Democrats took over control of the House and Senate. How can you blame Bush, and not blame those who make the laws of this great land. Many people blame the oil companies, but their profit margins are lower than many other companies. The fact is they sell so much product, which is why they make so much money.

Perhaps a windfall tax is a good idea. Do we tax just Exxon and Wal-mart, or anyone that has a good year. Perhaps no one should be allowed to make more than the president. Should over $25 NFL players that make over 10 million a year have a wind-fall tax? Should Bill and Hillary who have made in excess of $100 million since he left office pay some sort of windfall tax?

Bill Clinton was president during one of the most prosperous times in our country’s history. But let us not forget that the economy started to slide in 2000.

Look, I am not trying to say that Bill Clinton was the worst guy in the world, but that you cannot sit here and blame President Bush because people did not read the fine print or their mortgage, or they chose to purchase a vehicle that gets less than 20 MPG. President Bush has no control over what the MTA charges for fares and tolls, nor does he control the property tax or local government pension plans for people in New York. He has no say in the fact that Nassau has 34 school superintendents, or in a state system that lets someone collect two checks by just adding the word interim to their title.

[Real Facts]

To finish,

The president does not have a say in what OPEC can charge for oil, or how much they can produce. We actually have very little say in what a foreign government can do.

Yes, I agree that there is some inflation pressure. But I am also noticing that many people do not seem to care. Fifty inch plasma TVs are flying off the shelf and not a seat can be had at a restaurant. I took a vacation day yesterday, and was shocked to find lines at Costco at 2:00 in the afternoon. There was heavy traffic on the Meadowbrook Parkway. Does anyone actually go to work anymore? You can’t tell me that everyone took yesterday off.

So is the economy really suffering, or is the media just making us thank that everyone is suffering? Yes, I too feel the pinch of fuel prices, but $1 a gallon extra at 24 MPG adds about $10 to a 240 mile trip to Washington DC. Skip lunch at McDonalds one afternoon, and the additional $20 round trip cost will not impact my vacation.

Did the $5 a month increase for the subway really kill me? Again, a couple of fewer coffees a month and it would have been paid for. However, I choose now to walk, a healthier choice for me, and a cheaper one at that. At home, I walk to the train. Yes, I still have my car, and with the rain today, I did drive. But if I save a few gallons of gas, it is better for all of us. Again, a few more dollars in my pocket, and hopefully a few less pounds on my frame.

However, back to my point, everyone needs to start taking personal responsibility. Blaming Bush for all the problems is basically just finger pointing IMHO mostly by people who do not want to actually try and solve the problems.

[Rest of the story]

Real Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok, here we go with all the Bush Bashing.
While President Bush may not be the best president ever, he is far from the worst, IMHO.
Many people seem to want to blame him for all the worlds’ troubles.
...

Gas prices have begun to sore since the Democrats took over control of the House and Senate. How can you blame Bush, and not blame those who make the laws of this great land.

You can 100% blame repugnican foreign, fiscal and tax policy for the 70% drop in the USD versus teh Euro -- fast becoming the international currency of choice.

Those paycing in Euro have not seen the sort of energy cost inflation we see here, precisely because of the rise in their currency value.

[ace]

Real Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok, here we go with all the Bush Bashing.
While President Bush may not be the best president ever, he is far from the worst, IMHO.
Many people seem to want to blame him for all the worlds’ troubles. Well, He is not the only one to blame.
As I have mentioned before, the first WTC attack, the Oklahoma City bombing, Khobar Towers, the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and the attack on the USS Cole all happened on Bill Clinton’s watch, as did the planning of the September 11th attacks. All of these attacks, with the excepting of the Oklahoma City Federal building, were performed by Middle Eastern Islamic militants between the ages of 18 and 39 years old.
I am also not a conspiracy theorist, but about one third of witnesses interviewed by the NTSB said they saw a streak of light hear towards TWA flight 800. While the official issue is an exploding fuel tank, there are many people that feel this is a terrorist act. If so, this was also on President Clinton’s watch.
Further, al-Qaeda was established during Bill Clinton’s presidency. Further, there were no fewer than 12 chances for US forces to eliminate the Bin Laden threat during Bill Clinton’s presidency, yet he chose not to pursue them.
Since the 2001 attacks, there has not been another attack on US soil. There have been attacks in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Greece and Algeria. This is not due to a lack of trying by al-Qaeda.
Gas prices have begun to sore since the Democrats took over control of the House and Senate. How can you blame Bush, and not blame those who make the laws of this great land. Many people blame the oil companies, but their profit margins are lower than many other companies. The fact is they sell so much product, which is why they make so much money.
Perhaps a windfall tax is a good idea. Do we tax just Exxon and Wal-mart, or anyone that has a good year. Perhaps no one should be allowed to make more than the president. Should over $25 NFL players that make over 10 million a year have a wind-fall tax? Should Bill and Hillary who have made in excess of $100 million since he left office pay some sort of windfall tax?
Bill Clinton was president during one of the most prosperous times in our country’s history. But let us not forget that the economy started to slide in 2000.
Look, I am not trying to say that Bill Clinton was the worst guy in the world, but that you cannot sit here and blame President Bush because people did not read the fine print or their mortgage, or they chose to purchase a vehicle that gets less than 20 MPG. President Bush has no control over what the MTA charges for fares and tolls, nor does he control the property tax or local government pension plans for people in New York. He has no say in the fact that Nassau has 34 school superintendents, or in a state system that lets someone collect two checks by just adding the word interim to their title.

Fair enough on a micro level. Why would you think however that I am interested in an assessment of Bill Clinton from your perspective. I would characterize his presidency only different from Bush's in that the present regime has pulled away the curtains and revealed the US state system for what it is. Elected "management" in the US is primarily a matter of degree rather than alternate policies or ideology. I agree with your assessment of poor decisions by the public but that is not relevant to my point and is to be expected in a society like the United States. My comment is merely a minor one to one to most people in that they do not live in the mythic America of their dreams but rather in a systemic proprietary that has educated, propagandized and deposited them at the lowest level of social concerns since the 1920'S.

[hace]

Rest of the story wrote:

<quoted text>
You can 100% blame repugnican foreign, fiscal and tax policy for the 70% drop in the USD versus teh Euro -- fast becoming the international currency of choice.
Those paycing in Euro have not seen the sort of energy cost inflation we see here, precisely because of the rise in their currency value.

Blaming the democrats for the current situation the country finds itself is precisely the explanation why it is in the situation it is in.
Simpletons supporting Bush all along until the failure has to blamed elsewhere. The Martians are plausible scapegoats to these nitwits.

[Real Facts]

Rest of the story wrote:

<quoted text>
You can 100% blame repugnican foreign, fiscal and tax policy for the 70% drop in the USD versus teh Euro -- fast becoming the international currency of choice.
Those paycing in Euro have not seen the sort of energy cost inflation we see here, precisely because of the rise in their currency value.

The Euro is a very interesting story.

I do not believe the issues with the euro have as much to do with American foreign policy as they do with the fact that this is all new.

The Euro was introduced in 1999. It created the biggest change to the world’s money system since floating rates were introduced in the early 1970s. In the years since the 1970s, other currencies have tried to challenge the US dollar as the world standard. What ever happened to the Deutschmark and the Yen?

It took thirteen countries to team together and agree to use the same currency to get the Euro started.

I can go on and on with the history lesson, but the point is that the economy is very cyclical. It is also very resilient. Why have home prices in Manhattan have stayed high? Today, they are cheap to foreigners. The same will hold true to homes in Orlando and Las Vegas. They will only drop so much, and then the price will stabilize, in part because of foreign investors.

Home building has slowed, which will cause for there to be a lower demand for building materials, such as sheetrock, copper for pipes and electrical, and the like. The lower demand will bring about lower prices, just as the high demand caused the prices of some building material to skyrocket in the past few years.

Demand went up, it went way up. Now, it has gone down, way down. Demand went up because prices were low, it went down when prices go to high. It will go back up again.

In his book, Economics: Principles and Policy, Princeton economics professor Alan Blinder writes:“The market always strikes back at attempts to repeal the law of supply and demand”

Basically, he is saying that the government should stay out of the market, and let supply and demand do its job.

So again, I ask, why is Bush so bad, and yet the democratic congress so good?

[Real Facts]

ace wrote:

<quoted text>
Fair enough on a micro level. Why would you think however that I am interested in an assessment of Bill Clinton from your perspective. I would characterize his presidency only different from Bush's in that the present regime has pulled away the curtains and revealed the US state system for what it is. Elected "management" in the US is primarily a matter of degree rather than alternate policies or ideology. I agree with your assessment of poor decisions by the public but that is not relevant to my point and is to be expected in a society like the United States. My comment is merely a minor one to one to most people in that they do not live in the mythic America of their dreams but rather in a systemic proprietary that has educated, propagandized and deposited them at the lowest level of social concerns since the 1920'S.

Agreed

[Econ Whiz]

Real Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
The Euro is a very interesting story.

Then surely you can explain why the Euro initially fell against the dollar, then since 2002 the dollar has dropped by 70%?

A "Democratic" congress (by a small margin) has had 18 months to remedy what Bush & Co (and a comparatively larger Republican congressional majority) wrought for five years running, including irreversible tax policy-driven losses and a foreign poliucy that stands to bankrupt the nation.

[Real Facts]

Econ Whiz wrote:

<quoted text>
Then surely you can explain why the Euro initially fell against the dollar, then since 2002 the dollar has dropped by 70%?
A "Democratic" congress (by a small margin) has had 18 months to remedy what Bush & Co (and a comparatively larger Republican congressional majority) wrought for five years running, including irreversible tax policy-driven losses and a foreign poliucy that stands to bankrupt the nation.

What I am trying to say is that FX rates are very fluid.

The short answer is of course that the Euro is in higher demand than the dollar.

However, there are many reasons why this is the case. Some are definitely policy driven, such as our low interest rates. However other issues are not quite as clear. For example that China has been buying Euros in part to hedge against the fact that most of their hard currency reserves is in US dollars.

There is no denying the fact that the dollar is currently weak. That does indeed have far reaching effects. It makes foreign products more expensive to Americans, and that goes for everything from cars to gas. However, it is not the worst thing in the world.

A weak dollar makes US exports cheaper, which helps encourage trade, or more specifically, reduces our trade imbalance. It encourages tourism. So while Americans may be tightening their belts a bit, expect to see many more foreign visitors to places like NYC and Florida.

Also remember that while a happy meal still costs the same in the states, it also still costs the same overseas. In other words, while a happy three years ago was five quid in London, that was $7.50. Today, the same happy meal still sells for 5 pounds, but McDonalds, who reports their results in dollars, just posted a $10 sale.

Back in 1999, gas was less than a dollar a gallon. It was as a result of that cheap gas that we did nothing. We had basically stopped looking into any sort of conservation of energy. We bought gas guzzlers, and the car companies made billions on them.

What I do find interesting is the total exaggeration of things. For example, Driving from Long Island to Disney World is a trip of 1150 miles. That would be a round trip of 2,300 miles. If your car gets 23 MPG (for easy math), that means you would need 100 gallons of gas for the trip. Last summer, gas was about $3 a gallon, this summer, about $4. In other words, your increased cost due to fuel is about $100. Now, yes that is a real dollar amount, but if you about to drop a couple of thousand in Disney, surely you can find a way to save that money elsewhere.

But again, I am digressing. I do not believe the economy is as bad off as the media is making it. Yes, things have gotten more expensive. But I just do not understand people anymore.

My friends were in from out of town. Midday on a Sunday, we went to three restaurants, to find that all three had a 45 minutes to and hour wait. Last Thursday, again midday, I was in Costco. I could not believe the amount of people there. Men and Women of all ages. Long lines. Does anyone go to work anymore? Did they all take a vacation day like me?

[Get a clue]

Real Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
What I am trying to say is that FX rates are very fluid.

"Very fluid" doesn't exactly correspond with a seven year downward slide coincident with a Republican administration, does it?

[Real Facts]

Get a clue wrote:

<quoted text>
"Very fluid" doesn't exactly correspond with a seven year downward slide coincident with a Republican administration, does it?

So, would you instead have the Fed raise interest rates? It would bolster the dollar, which would give us cheaper gas.

It would also drive up mortgage rates, something that is already causing people to lose their homes. Higher rates would tighten the money supply, causing even fewer people to be out purchasing cars and the like.

Again, we would have less foreign tourism.

Believe me, other countries (like France) are already noticing that tourism from Americans is down.

President Bush practically begged Saudi Arabia to pump more oil. They said no. We should all remember this the next time a crazy dictator is threatening them (look at Iran). They needed us, and we came to help out. Now, we ask them for more oil, and they say no. Remember that.

Also remember what happened when this occurred in the seventies. People started looking at alternatives.

Look, again, Senator Clinton stated the other day that “We’re more dependent on foreign oil today than we were on 9/11. And I’m a senator from New York, so I take that very personally. Because you’ll remember most of those hijackers were from where? Saudi Arabia, right? So here we are - more dependent. We’ve done nothing while George Bush has been president!”

I would like to point out that, Ms. Clinton has been the Senator from New York the entire time. In the past eight years, I have not heard anything from her about gas prices. Even Schumer could at least say that he has been pushing for more mass transit. Nothing, yet now she is blaming Bush.

The fact is, this is exactly what we need. We need for oil to be more expansive, so that we learn to conserve, and therefore use less. Ms. Clinton’s idea of a tax holiday is going exactly in the wrong direction.

[Not even close]

Real Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
Ms. Clinton’s idea of a tax holiday is going exactly in the wrong direction.

I know that you meant to say "John McBush '44's idea of a gas tax holiday is going in exactly the wrong direction". Right?

And how about a foreign policy (Iraq/Afghanistan) that doesn't bankrupt the nation?

While giving the wealthiest American an income tax holiday (so repugnican)?

While also failing to enact balanced budgets when repugnicans controlled the senate and house?

How 'bout them apples?