Baby subpoenaed for unpaid chiropract...

Baby subpoenaed for unpaid chiropractor bill

There are 571 comments on the Myrtle Beach Online story from May 15, 2008, titled Baby subpoenaed for unpaid chiropractor bill. In it, Myrtle Beach Online reports that:

A Harrisonburg court has dismissed a case against a baby boy summoned to appear in court for an unpaid bill.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Myrtle Beach Online.

Mom of 4

Chicago, IL

#124 May 21, 2008
CAK wrote:
Chiropractic manipulation of the neck has caused strokes in patients. Blood vessels to the brain run through the neck. I would never let anyone crack my neck like they do.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTo...
Any surgical procedure has a risk of causing heart attack or stroke (my foster father lost his father to a stroke following a "routine" heart catheterization and lost his daughter to a heart attack following stomach bypass surgery). I would not for a moment suggest that people are nuts to undergo surgery--it is all about risk vs. benefit. I wish there were some solid research about how frequntly stroke occurrs following chiropractic treatment.
Sweaty

United States

#125 May 21, 2008
Wisdom wrote:
Medical errors have nothing to do with chiropractic. Inded, subluxation based chiropractic is not an alternative to treating any real illnesses.
Correct. Subluxation chiropractic treats subluxation. This is excellent to promote global homeostasis. What is your background that you are so interested in this topic? You seem very negative about this subject, but possibly motivated for personal gain.
Sweaty

United States

#126 May 21, 2008
Mom of 4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Any surgical procedure has a risk of causing heart attack or stroke (my foster father lost his father to a stroke following a "routine" heart catheterization and lost his daughter to a heart attack following stomach bypass surgery). I would not for a moment suggest that people are nuts to undergo surgery--it is all about risk vs. benefit. I wish there were some solid research about how frequntly stroke occurrs following chiropractic treatment.
There are statistical correlates only. The dissection process is cloaked in symptoms that are normally indicated for chiropracic intervention. The risk however from adjustment causing stroke are not connected by science, only lawsuits, which are connected to the efficacy of a lawyers argument either way. The risk accordingly is infinitesimally small, statisically. It is not really deserving the attention some give it. Again I suspect the fervor is motivated by vendetta of personal gain motivations.

Since: Jul 07

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

#127 May 21, 2008
Mom of 4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Any surgical procedure has a risk of causing heart attack or stroke (my foster father lost his father to a stroke following a "routine" heart catheterization and lost his daughter to a heart attack following stomach bypass surgery). I would not for a moment suggest that people are nuts to undergo surgery--it is all about risk vs. benefit. I wish there were some solid research about how frequntly stroke occurrs following chiropractic treatment.
There actually is that kind of research - it was a population study done in Ontario that covered more than 100 million person-years of data. I'd trust a peer-reviewed study covering that much data over a single article posted on a chiro-bashing site any day.

http://www.spinejournal.com/pt/re/spine/abstr... !-1932991218!181195629!8091!-1 ?index=1&database=ppvovft &results=1&count=10 &searchid=2&nav=search
From the article:

Conclusion. VBA stroke is a very rare event in the population. The increased risks of VBA stroke associated with chiropractic and PCP visits is likely due to patients with headache and neck pain from VBA dissection seeking care before their stroke. We found no evidence of excess risk of VBA stroke associated chiropractic care compared to primary care.
Sweaty

United States

#128 May 21, 2008
Nucca Chiro wrote:
<quoted text>
There actually is that kind of research - it was a population study done in Ontario that covered more than 100 million person-years of data. I'd trust a peer-reviewed study covering that much data over a single article posted on a chiro-bashing site any day.
http://www.spinejournal.com/pt/re/spine/abstr... !-1932991218!181195629!8091!-1 ?index=1&database=ppvovft &results=1&count=10 &searchid=2&nav=search
From the article:
Conclusion. VBA stroke is a very rare event in the population. The increased risks of VBA stroke associated with chiropractic and PCP visits is likely due to patients with headache and neck pain from VBA dissection seeking care before their stroke. We found no evidence of excess risk of VBA stroke associated chiropractic care compared to primary care.
CCWP!
love polk county

Orlando, FL

#129 May 21, 2008
Ted Williams wrote:
Worked for I chiro/Neurological Office for 11 years. And I can assure you none of this freaks are clean. I have been in many of their FCA and Chiro Marketing Seminars to know that they are the bottom crap feeders of the tank. They have been conning the insurance industries for many years now. And we all pay for it. What happen in this story has been going on for many years now, it s a classic uninsured con artist hired by either the P.I. of the Chiro physician through their "marketing guy" aka "the Runner" pretending to be in an auto accident. but since the con artist has been a patient with other clinics already what he/she has to do is steal an identity (SS number are perfect) then he/she would do the water bed theraphy some massage and heat or cold packs and sign all the papers. And after a few months WHALA!$10,000 courtesy of the insurance PIP coverage. Chiros's get their cuts the Lawyers Get their Cut and the poor insured would be given a $1000 check for participating in the scam. And just to give everyone a veiw of how many a chiro office see in a day. we use to average 100-120 PATIENTS IN A DAY. Now consider that the state requires massages to be at least 15 minutes long to qualify in the code to be billed as part of the theraphy; for a hundred patients a chiro office would need at least 8-10 massage therapist working non-stop to fulfill the requirements but if we would check around most office just maintain 1 or 2 at the most massage therapist. Now how can day do that...simple they created a system where they would let patients sign their names after every theraphy not expalining to the poor patients what they are signing. They are basically saying that we did this service to the patients and they even signed for it. And that is cheating. I worked with many chiros some are even good friends of mine but the whole indusrty is corrupt. They sold their souls for a free meal with the P.I. Lawyers.
Some smart **** chirpractor might say ...:"oh yes infants needs chiropractic treatments too". And yes they do adjust or manipulate infants bones supposedly its good for their growth, but no science can prove it other than chiropractors.
So if you guys ever get to an accident dont listen to the adds these con proffesionals put out on TV . No! dont call that 1800-411-PAIN or alike they are going to con you out of your money if you can settle staright with the insurance company do it. Remember you are intitled to a $10,000 from your PIP , so if you can get the insurance agency to pay close to that amount take it. Then if you need a back rub down on a chiro clinic go and just take their cash option payments. Dont let them dip in to your insurance or anything they are like parasites they will suck everything they can from it. Usually chiros has a "Cash" program where you come in as a cash patients . Our office before charges 100 for the first visit includes x-ray and 3 visits for teh whole week. then $100 per week after that that is you come as often as you want for the whole week. and believe me in 2 weeks time your body would have healed up from the accident already and that would have cost you only about a couple of hundred dollars as supposed to them charging you a couple of thousand off your settlement money.
All this for nothing.What does this have to do with anything??????
Stacey

Eunice, LA

#130 May 21, 2008
Where was the phone call by the
billing office to the guarantors on
the patient's demographic information,
before it went this far?!
Hilarious!
Womba

Troy, MI

#131 May 21, 2008
Save the vegetables wrote:
Chiropractors are a monumental waste of money. Another medical scam along with psychiatry.
Chiro-Med fits that bill.
nwtk2007

Dallas, TX

#133 May 21, 2008
Not that Ted Williams up there is on topic but he/she sounds like a typical, unhurt person who will walk into the chiro's office not for treatment but with the hope of getting some cash. They want to get "paid". They think they are entitled to cash when they get into an accident that is not their fault, hurt or not. What ever.

The point is that if you are injured you go to the doctor to get treatment for an injury and your concern with the doctor whould not be to get "paid" but to get treated. Also, as far as I know, PIP coverage is for medical bills and lost wages only. To say that you are entitled to $10,000 in PIP just because you are in an accident is just plain dumb.

If patients are only interested in settlement money or PIP money when they get into an accident, then they certainly don't need to go to the doctor and I wish they would just stay away. My first question for anyone walking into my clinic who has been in an accident is "Are you really hurt?" Surprisingly, most who are not hurt will admit right up front that they are not hurt and are just looking to get some money. They actually think they are supposed to get "paid" if they get hit even if they are not hurt. Crooks pure and simple.

So Ted, the chiro's who treat injuries are not cheating anyone out of money. If you are hurt and you go to the doctor you will be responsible for your medical bills no matter how you plan to pay them. If you are not hurt, don't go to the doctor. Just stay away if you are not hurt.
Dr know it all

Chicago, IL

#135 May 21, 2008
Judge: baby, do you have anything to say?

baby: goo goo

Spongebob: your honor, my client cannot speak

Diego: i object, that baby can speak

Judge: over ruled

Spongebob: your honor, this is clearly a mistake

Patrick: Yes! mistake

Judge: order in the court, baliff throw him out

Dora the explorer: lets go Diego

.....er what the hell am i doing?
Balto Dad

Southgate, MI

#136 May 21, 2008
Save the vegetables wrote:
Exactly, Chiropractors and Psychiatrists are nothing more than modern day witch doctor shamans that are rife with fraud in both the services they provide and their billing practices. They are not real doctors and their methods are based on nothing more than what amounts to junk science.
<quoted text>
Substantiate your claims with evidence or shut up. You don't get to claim the world is flat in this information age anymore. If you're so right, prove it. I know I can prove you wrong, but the burden of proof is on you. You're the one making the statement.
Balto Dad

Southgate, MI

#137 May 21, 2008
Wisdom wrote:
More chiropractors here bashing medicine in an effort to validate their quack field.
Ha Ha...as if chiropractic is an alternative to treating any real illnesses.
Hold on to your wallets.
Is your assertion that I'm a chiropractor?
Wisdom

Brooklyn, NY

#138 May 21, 2008
Hey balto, prove to me that the chiropractic subluxation exists.

After all, the foundation of chiropractic is built upon the "subluxation'. Millions of people and insurance companies have been bilked out of money by chiropractors that have claimed to have located and removed "subluxations".

And what chiropractic technique do you think is valid.

If you're not a chiro, its likely you have no idea what I'm talking about.
But then again, it was you who calimed that you can prove that chiropractors are not witch doctors.
nwtk2007

Fort Worth, TX

#139 May 21, 2008
Wisdom said -Hey balto, prove to me that the chiropractic subluxation exists.-

He shouldn't have to. You know absolutely that it exists in some form or another. Specifically which form are you referring to? In chiropractic, as you well know, a fixated joint, usually a facet joint in the spine, is a subluxated joint. Prove that one doesn't exist or prove it can't effect the physiology of the human body.

Are chiro's the only ones who can find'em? No way. Just anyone who has the patients and sensitivity to "feel" for it through palpation.

On the other hand, I x-rayed a patient today who had a forward shift of nearly 1/3 of an inch at C3 on C4 on forward flexion. Is this also a subluxation? Could it be suggested that it is subluxated when it shifts that far forward? The shift reduced to about 1/8th inch on neutral position. Would you call that a subluxation? I would. The segments above and below that one had very little motion at all on flexion and extension. Would you say those were fixated? Can we call those subluxations? Do they count as abnormally functioning segments? This patient has numbness and tingling over the traps and into the anterior deltoid on the right side. Her face is flush on the right as well.

There is a lot going on but I would definitely say there are some subluxated segments there.

As to the technique I will use to treat this, I would feel fairly comfortable with any technique which can apply motion to the fixated segments specifically enough to prevent adding motion to the obviously hypermobile segment.

Now Wisdom, prove the subluxation doesn't exist and suggest the chiropractic technique that would be the most effective. You should be able to do that since you are more familiar with chiropractic than anyone, as you have said countless times.
Balto Dad

Southgate, MI

#140 May 21, 2008
Wisdom wrote:
Hey balto, prove to me that the chiropractic subluxation exists.
After all, the foundation of chiropractic is built upon the "subluxation'. Millions of people and insurance companies have been bilked out of money by chiropractors that have claimed to have located and removed "subluxations".
And what chiropractic technique do you think is valid.
If you're not a chiro, its likely you have no idea what I'm talking about.
But then again, it was you who calimed that you can prove that chiropractors are not witch doctors.
Gee, you're right. 7 years of school, a couple of BA's, and a Masters in an allied health profession...you're right. I'm probably an idiot. And the medical documentation of spinal malalignment, herniation, disc bulging, chronic pain, the prevalence of kyphotic/lordotic posturing among people that live sedentary lifestyles...yeah, that's all just hogwash, right? Careful who you're talking to, junior. Might run into someone who can out-jargon you.

Just like any profession, there are stupid, unethical chiropractors. Judge the field by those idiots, and you might as well judge all clowns by John Wayne Gacy or all football players by Michael Vick.
Wisdom

Brooklyn, NY

#141 May 21, 2008
Balto, just what I thought. You have no idea what chiropractic really is. You have no idea about all the bizarre chiropractic techniques.

I could care less how many years of school you have.

Chiropractic subluxations are not the same as the well accepted medical subluxations, much as the chiropractors here would have you believe. Of course you wouldn't know that because you have no idea what you're talking about.

I gave you the example of the nucca chiropractic technique as one that thousands of chiropractors claim can locate and correct chiropractic subluxations. These "chiropractic" subluxations are not "herniated discs or spondylo's". These "subluxations" are claimed by chiropractors to be miniscule misalignments of the atlas. These "misalignments" are figments of the chiropractic imagination. Indeed, chiropractors that use nucca believe that "subluxations" only exist at C1. And that any patient with any condition should be treated with "nucca" adjustments.

Its incredibly bizarre.

And again, its obvious you have no idea about what you're talking about. Certainly a couple BA's and a degree in "an allied health field" does not qualify you to speak about chiropractic.
Some basic health issues maybe, but not chiropractic.

You're a classic chiropractic defender. Incredibly ignorant.

www.chirotalk.com The #1 skeptical chiropractic website. You've got a lot of learning to do.

Since: Jul 07

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

#142 May 21, 2008
Wisdom wrote:
I could care less how many years of school you have.
That's because I doubt Wisdumb has ever finished a degree, and so he doesn't want to get into a match he doesn't think he can compete in. Besides ... attempting to support his absurd positions with anything other than more vitriol might be more than his mind could bear.
Wisdom wrote:
Incredibly ignorant.
Caught your reflection in the mirror again, didn't you Wisdumb?

Since: Jul 07

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

#143 May 21, 2008
Wisdom wrote:
www.chirotalk.com The #1 skeptical chiropractic website. You've got a lot of learning to do.
Who needs to learn?? I think you might mean ...
Wisdom wrote:
www.chirotalk.com The #1 website hub for:
* Car Insurance
* Mortgage Refinancing
* College Loans
* Poker Online
* Debt Consolidation Loan
* Domain Names
* Weight Loss
* Flowers Online
* Cosmetic Surgery
* Hair Removal
* Dating Services
LOL ... you truly are a sad little man, Wisdumb ... tell me, do the pennies you get for hits on that site that you continually post here finance your meds?
Balto Dad

Southgate, MI

#144 May 22, 2008
Wisdom wrote:
Balto, just what I thought. You have no idea what chiropractic really is. You have no idea about all the bizarre chiropractic techniques.
I could care less how many years of school you have.
Chiropractic subluxations are not the same as the well accepted medical subluxations, much as the chiropractors here would have you believe. Of course you wouldn't know that because you have no idea what you're talking about.
I gave you the example of the nucca chiropractic technique as one that thousands of chiropractors claim can locate and correct chiropractic subluxations. These "chiropractic" subluxations are not "herniated discs or spondylo's". These "subluxations" are claimed by chiropractors to be miniscule misalignments of the atlas. These "misalignments" are figments of the chiropractic imagination. Indeed, chiropractors that use nucca believe that "subluxations" only exist at C1. And that any patient with any condition should be treated with "nucca" adjustments.
Its incredibly bizarre.
And again, its obvious you have no idea about what you're talking about. Certainly a couple BA's and a degree in "an allied health field" does not qualify you to speak about chiropractic.
Some basic health issues maybe, but not chiropractic.
You're a classic chiropractic defender. Incredibly ignorant.
www.chirotalk.com The #1 skeptical chiropractic website. You've got a lot of learning to do.
Oh, I don't? I went to grad school in Davenport, IA. The birthplace of chiropractic medicine. Consorted with a fair share of chiros, both conventional and crazy. I'm quite aware of the chiros that think it's within their scope of practice to recommend dietary changes, that try to realign your chi, etc. But that isn't all chiropractors.
Go ahead and assume I'm ignorant here. It's the only possible way you'll be able to keep your ignorant mind firmly locked in your delusions. The fact is that a responsible chiropractor operating within the bounds of their scope of practice can and does produce predictable, palpable improvement in body alignment, reduced pain, improved articular mobility, etc. A REAL THERAPIST'S criticism is that they treat the immediate pathology but don't often address underlying muscular imbalance, weakness, muscle strains, etc. That said, I've personally found great relief from chiropractors myself, but you have to choose wisely.

Remember, there are doctors that buy into crazy things too. Now, tell me how you know so much. Nobody with any real knowledge would be so myopic about their viewpoint.
nwtk2007

Fort Worth, TX

#145 May 22, 2008
I think we'd all like to hear Wisdumb prove subluxations don't exist.

Just can't keep up with a real doctor of chiropractic can you Wisdumb? That's right, don't even try.

Just stay focused of the narrow fringe of chiro's who practice those particular "techniques" that you continue to mention so often as if they are the only kind of chiro.

Myopic is right. It really doesn't matter to you really as long as you can keep selling that web site of yours.

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