Cash owed to builders piles up as wor...

Cash owed to builders piles up as work lags

There are 53 comments on the Myrtle Beach Online story from Jul 19, 2008, titled Cash owed to builders piles up as work lags. In it, Myrtle Beach Online reports that:

Construction-related debts recorded in mechanics liens filed in Horry County have more than doubled over the past year to $17.7 million, providing further evidence of a slump in this area's economy and growing ...

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Mag 11 Command KK

United States

#1 Jul 19, 2008
If you think this is bad, start reducing incomes, revenues, and collected taxes from not having any alternatives to the motorcycle rallies on the table if you wish them killed.

Every dollar paid multiplies by a factor of about 3 in this type of typical multiplier less the costs of the extra crowd control and so forth. But in general a heck of a lot of business revenues, sales taxes, and cash flows are going to go missing if the deal is simply just killed.

By the way, large commercial projects have surety bond requirements usually, though the amount may be far less than the cost. It is weird that the same is hard to get for residential construction. That is why I acted as my own general and paid the bills directly ensuring no double payments nor lawsuits from leins were afforded to me in building my dwelling.
Lies and more lies

AOL

#2 Jul 19, 2008
"Goodwin said mechanics liens often are normal as a project winds down and contractors resolve the details of their contracts"
Mechanics liens are filed at Horry County Court House and the plantiff has 6 months to collect or then file a lawsuit. The County has more to do than allow anyone who may or may not owe money file a mechanics lien!!! How stupid.

Why would a subcontractor file a lien if Hard Rock Park didn't owe money? Because they DO owe money. Hellooooo.......PAY YOUR BILLS and then there won't be a Mechanics Lien filed against you.

There are THREE Mechanics Liens, what does that tell you? Three people have nothing better to do thandrive over to Conway and file a mechanics lien which is public record? Those subcontractors can be sued for slander if they're falsely accusing someone of owing money.
You don't just run around filing mechanics liens because you think someone may or may not owe you money. With that mentality it's no wonder Hard Rock Park is in trouble.
Wake up Steven Goodwin, the public is not that naive.
Fire Freak

Florence, SC

#3 Jul 20, 2008
Lies and more lies wrote:
"Goodwin said mechanics liens often are normal as a project winds down and contractors resolve the details of their contracts"
Mechanics liens are filed at Horry County Court House and the plantiff has 6 months to collect or then file a lawsuit. The County has more to do than allow anyone who may or may not owe money file a mechanics lien!!! How stupid.
Why would a subcontractor file a lien if Hard Rock Park didn't owe money? Because they DO owe money. Hellooooo.......PAY YOUR BILLS and then there won't be a Mechanics Lien filed against you.
There are THREE Mechanics Liens, what does that tell you? Three people have nothing better to do thandrive over to Conway and file a mechanics lien which is public record? Those subcontractors can be sued for slander if they're falsely accusing someone of owing money.
You don't just run around filing mechanics liens because you think someone may or may not owe you money. With that mentality it's no wonder Hard Rock Park is in trouble.
Wake up Steven Goodwin, the public is not that naive.
It is possible that the General Contractor got paid and then didn't pay the subcontractors so the first step is to lien the project. If HRP can prove they paid the GC then the lien is lifted and the subcontractor has to go after the General Contractor.
I am a small contractor and I am owed over $300,000 and when the boom started all the General Contractors went out and bought all new cars, boats, built themselves bigger houses and got bigger offices. That is why most of them are several jobs behind. Once that work slows down then subs stop getting paid. Most GC's just wind up working under a new name and someone else's license. If the bank takes the project then the sub doesn't get paid. Some GC's will purposely not pay a sub and then when the sub stops working, the sub is in breach of contract and the GC gets someone else to finish the job for less. We finished quite a few jobs while were weren't getting paid so the GC couldn't do that to us. I have had several work vehicles and my boat repossessed because I paid out labor and material on these jobs and never got paid. If I bounce a check paying for something, I could wind up in jail but if a GC or builder doesn't pay me, all I can do is get a judgment on them and they can always find a family member to work under their name. Start bringing GC's and builders up on criminal charges and you'll see a lot less liens.
Local29577

AOL

#4 Jul 20, 2008
Fire Freak wrote:
<quoted text>
It is possible that the General Contractor got paid and then didn't pay the subcontractors so the first step is to lien the project. If HRP can prove they paid the GC then the lien is lifted and the subcontractor has to go after the General Contractor.
I am a small contractor and I am owed over $300,000 and when the boom started all the General Contractors went out and bought all new cars, boats, built themselves bigger houses and got bigger offices. That is why most of them are several jobs behind. Once that work slows down then subs stop getting paid. Most GC's just wind up working under a new name and someone else's license. If the bank takes the project then the sub doesn't get paid. Some GC's will purposely not pay a sub and then when the sub stops working, the sub is in breach of contract and the GC gets someone else to finish the job for less. We finished quite a few jobs while were weren't getting paid so the GC couldn't do that to us. I have had several work vehicles and my boat repossessed because I paid out labor and material on these jobs and never got paid. If I bounce a check paying for something, I could wind up in jail but if a GC or builder doesn't pay me, all I can do is get a judgment on them and they can always find a family member to work under their name. Start bringing GC's and builders up on criminal charges and you'll see a lot less liens.
Criminal charges should be filed in each and every case. I had an issue with a builder, he wouldn't return my calls so finally I put him on 24 hour notice that the Sheriff's Dept. would be making the next call. That got his attention LOUD and CLEAR and he realized I was finished calling him and the next steps would have legal ramifications.

It angers me beyond belief that people don't pay their bills and expect others to work for free. I own some rentals and see it all the time. I know how hard it is to collect and if I could file criminal charges believe me I would. All I can get is a judgement as well.

The Grande Dunes - another example of people not being paid. A lot of money has been lost and now the banks are going to lose even more. The homes that are half built are sitting there with mold growing by leaps and bounds.
Fire Freak

Florence, SC

#5 Jul 20, 2008
The Grande Dunes is a project that B&C did that was only supposed to have preferred builders building there. That meant only builders that met the criteria or higher standards could build in the Grande Dunes. Then to sell more land B&C opened certain sections up for anyone to build in there. Keep in mind that a preferred builder had to carry two models in there which is over $2,000,000 worth of models and pay commissions back to the sales reps. So how does a preferred builder compete against another builder in there that doesn't have to carry models and pay commission? By cutting corners and not paying subcontractors. I am owed $47,000 from builders in the Grande Dunes. I will not see that money because the banks will take those projects. Tom Wingard from Wingard Properties ( one of the five original preferred builders in the Grande Dunes) is already operating under another name and license.
Local29577

AOL

#6 Jul 20, 2008
Fire Freak wrote:
The Grande Dunes is a project that B&C did that was only supposed to have preferred builders building there. That meant only builders that met the criteria or higher standards could build in the Grande Dunes. Then to sell more land B&C opened certain sections up for anyone to build in there. Keep in mind that a preferred builder had to carry two models in there which is over $2,000,000 worth of models and pay commissions back to the sales reps. So how does a preferred builder compete against another builder in there that doesn't have to carry models and pay commission? By cutting corners and not paying subcontractors. I am owed $47,000 from builders in the Grande Dunes. I will not see that money because the banks will take those projects. Tom Wingard from Wingard Properties ( one of the five original preferred builders in the Grande Dunes) is already operating under another name and license.
I've heard it's common that as soon as a project is finished that builders file for BK so the homeowners can't come back on them later on.
The Prossers down in Murrells Inlet built Riverwood on beds of termites. There were or possibly still are class action suits filed against them. I know people there that were fighting with them over that issue.

Burroughs and Chapin should be eating the losses if anyone should. For some reason they always skid by, sooner or later they're going to get what they deserve. The banks are going to lose on Grande Dunes, with falling property values there and the mold problems they'll be lucky to unlead them at almost any price. When you start tearing walls down and ceilings out to get rid of mold it's very costly. You can't just bleach it and hope it goes away.

What about the condos in Grande Dunes? I've heard the regime $1200 a month and that doesn't cover insurance?

I don't know Tom Wingard. I was in there last Friday looking at property, I don't remember seeing one home that is still being worked on. Construction looks as though it's come to a screeching halt. Parts of Grande Dunes are now like a creepy ghost town.
Local29577

AOL

#7 Jul 20, 2008
Fire Freak wrote:
The Grande Dunes is a project that B&C did that was only supposed to have preferred builders building there. That meant only builders that met the criteria or higher standards could build in the Grande Dunes. Then to sell more land B&C opened certain sections up for anyone to build in there. Keep in mind that a preferred builder had to carry two models in there which is over $2,000,000 worth of models and pay commissions back to the sales reps. So how does a preferred builder compete against another builder in there that doesn't have to carry models and pay commission? By cutting corners and not paying subcontractors. I am owed $47,000 from builders in the Grande Dunes. I will not see that money because the banks will take those projects. Tom Wingard from Wingard Properties ( one of the five original preferred builders in the Grande Dunes) is already operating under another name and license.
Sorry this has happened to you. It seems the crooks always find a way to beat the system. At some point his reputation has got to catch up with him... I'll certainly remember that name now and pass it along.
The Imagineer

Hartsville, SC

#8 Jul 20, 2008
ROFL...I know a "preferred builder" in the Grand Dunes. His name is LEE and he is THE biggest toss off I have ever met. It is like talking to a box of rocks...And this is just another case of wanting something for nothing. I wouldn't trust anyone in the Dunes.

As far as the liens go, good for them. I hope they get every penny they are owed. People who want work done and then don't want to pay should face criminal charges as well. You can't just steal my services...
Local29577

AOL

#9 Jul 20, 2008
Is Lee the first or last name?
Local29577

AOL

#10 Jul 20, 2008
Before I hire someone to do work for me I go over to the court house and see who has judgements and mechanics liens. Doing this has saved me a lot of headaches and even more money.

All of this information is public record, people don't realize that it's the easiest way to alleviate yourself of someone doing work for you who is a scam artist. I flat out tell whoever I'm hiring I am going to check them out, they'll usually say they don't have time to do the job if they have a lot of cases filed against them.
Fire Freak

Florence, SC

#11 Jul 20, 2008
The original preferred builders for the Grande Dunes were Classic Homes, Carrell Homes, Seacoast Properties, Wingard Properties and Omni Builders. Several have claimed to be preferred builders but I think the only one added that had true "preferred" status was Dream Estates.
Wondering

Columbia, SC

#13 Jul 20, 2008
I remember when i was a kid many years ago that when someone tried to beat you out of your hard earned money that usuall three things happened.
(1) was that everyone in the community was informed about it,(2)They usually paid you or were made to wish they had,an(3)no one else in the comunity would do business with them.
If that system were in practice now their would be a lot less Leins on property and less lawsuits.
The Imagineer

Hartsville, SC

#14 Jul 20, 2008
Local29577 wrote:
Is Lee the first or last name?
First name. I think his whole name is Lee Hickey. The guy is as dumb as a box of rocks. He tries to talk like he knows what he is talking about, but after about 3 minutes you can tell he is empty. The guy is clueless, smokes pot on the job, and makes a ton of cash...Sounds like a sweet gig, doesn't it? Preferred builder my a s s...I wouldn't let him build me a bird house.
Local29577

AOL

#15 Jul 20, 2008
Sounds like most of the builders here now. People come in here and crucify people then leave.

I've also heard that the "premier" builders at Grande Dunes couldn't sell lots to buyers, the buildlers had to either build to suit the buyers and then sell the finished product. So now subcontractors are out, so are people that put down payments down on these properties, is this correct? If this is the case is the money is gone or was it not held in escrow???

We're allowing these crooks to get away with robbing people and then letting them go back in business. This is outrageous!!
Jenn

Summerville, SC

#16 Jul 20, 2008
what makes all of this even worse is the trickle down effect. THe sub contractors not being paid means many of the workers are not getting paid. YOu have painters, and dry wallers and plumbers and on and on that don't get paid. Then they aren't pay THEIR bills, ooh say, like their mortgages and things and then people stare all dumfounded at the number of foreclosures.

What a circular mess it is.

Why would builders do business this way : depending on the next job to pay for the current. That is absurd.

Since: Jul 08

Conway, SC

#17 Jul 20, 2008
Lies and more lies wrote:
"Goodwin said mechanics liens often are normal as a project winds down and contractors resolve the details of their contracts"
Mechanics liens are filed at Horry County Court House and the plantiff has 6 months to collect or then file a lawsuit. The County has more to do than allow anyone who may or may not owe money file a mechanics lien!!! How stupid.
Why would a subcontractor file a lien if Hard Rock Park didn't owe money? Because they DO owe money. Hellooooo.......PAY YOUR BILLS and then there won't be a Mechanics Lien filed against you.
There are THREE Mechanics Liens, what does that tell you? Three people have nothing better to do thandrive over to Conway and file a mechanics lien which is public record? Those subcontractors can be sued for slander if they're falsely accusing someone of owing money.
You don't just run around filing mechanics liens because you think someone may or may not owe you money. With that mentality it's no wonder Hard Rock Park is in trouble.
Wake up Steven Goodwin, the public is not that naive.
It is the general contractors responsibility to hire the subs and pay them. Hard Rock Park hired the GC, not the subs. Hard Rock cannot pay the Subs directly.

The GC and not Hard Rock is responsible, however Mechanics liens are filed in order for project construction loan to halt until the problems are cleared up.

Since: Jul 08

Conway, SC

#18 Jul 20, 2008
First off, normally construction loans are to be used for CONSTRUCTION on the building the loan was meant for, not for other properties. Diverting those funds would be considered bank fraud.

Secondly, in normal construction lending, a lien waiver must be signed off by all parties, for the work that has been completed thus far, in order for the funding to continue.

Finally, the profits to the GC or the builder or whomever, are not paid out UNTIL the end of the construction loan, therefore if GC's or Contracting companies are using the money for anything other than the construction of the lot/building the loan was meant for, it is bank fraud and federal charges can and should be filed.

Banks need to take a stand against the builders, GC's and etc that continue to operate this way and charge them with BANK FRAUD, that is the only way that the dishonest ones can be caught and stopped from just moving on.

Start complaining at the licensing boards, and state and local levels of the builders association and keep moving up until someone listens...time consuming but worth the effort so that it cannot continue to happen.
PREFAB SPROUT

United States

#19 Jul 20, 2008
Local29577 wrote:
Before I hire someone to do work for me I go over to the court house and see who has judgements and mechanics liens. Doing this has saved me a lot of headaches and even more money.
All of this information is public record, people don't realize that it's the easiest way to alleviate yourself of someone doing work for you who is a scam artist. I flat out tell whoever I'm hiring I am going to check them out, they'll usually say they don't have time to do the job if they have a lot of cases filed against them.
Actually the BEST way to see if a builder is on the up and up is call the big local supply houses---make some friends and ask "who pays their bills and who are the bad apples"

As far as Seacoast Properties being a preferred builder----I would "prefer" anyone thinking of doing business with Mr Collins to RUN-not walk_away!
Fire Freak

Florence, SC

#20 Jul 20, 2008
Jenn wrote:
what makes all of this even worse is the trickle down effect. THe sub contractors not being paid means many of the workers are not getting paid. YOu have painters, and dry wallers and plumbers and on and on that don't get paid. Then they aren't pay THEIR bills, ooh say, like their mortgages and things and then people stare all dumfounded at the number of foreclosures.
What a circular mess it is.
Why would builders do business this way : depending on the next job to pay for the current. That is absurd.
Not necessarily true. Wages and the taxes on those wages have to be paid no matter what. As a business owner that is a situation that you don't want to be in. I have taken out equity loans to pay my labor and material so that I can continue to do business. If you did not get paid, all you have to do is go down to the Employment Commission.
Fire Freak

Florence, SC

#21 Jul 20, 2008
Carolina Forest Resident wrote:
First off, normally construction loans are to be used for CONSTRUCTION on the building the loan was meant for, not for other properties. Diverting those funds would be considered bank fraud.
Secondly, in normal construction lending, a lien waiver must be signed off by all parties, for the work that has been completed thus far, in order for the funding to continue.
Finally, the profits to the GC or the builder or whomever, are not paid out UNTIL the end of the construction loan, therefore if GC's or Contracting companies are using the money for anything other than the construction of the lot/building the loan was meant for, it is bank fraud and federal charges can and should be filed.
Banks need to take a stand against the builders, GC's and etc that continue to operate this way and charge them with BANK FRAUD, that is the only way that the dishonest ones can be caught and stopped from just moving on.
Start complaining at the licensing boards, and state and local levels of the builders association and keep moving up until someone listens...time consuming but worth the effort so that it cannot continue to happen.
You are ignoring the fact that most jobs start with a nice down payment and the fact that most of these builders had a relationship with the bank so most of the time the work progress wasn't even checked. Also the fact that some work looks complete but was not done to standards and now has to be redone. Then factor in all the interest a builder pays when an 8 month project turns into a 14 month project. Keeping track of all the money for that project is almost never done. Now factor in the new office, a new work vehicle, a new personal vehicle for you and the wife, a bigger home, a new boat and a vacation spot. As a law abiding citizen, I can not take a hammer to someones head. If we had more work we could weather the storm and recoup but with out a larger income to replace the money on jobs we did not get paid on then we face foreclosure ourselves.

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