Religious Americans: My faith isn't the only way

[ByronMoreno]

Pariah wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah, right. A cedar is a tree. Ever seen an elephant with that big of a tail? I can't believe you blinked over that description.

OK, but if you really want to get nit picky and literal, the Brachiosaurus and other large herbaceous 'saurs didn't appear to feed on grass like an ox. They ate leafy plants, based on their teeth shape.

And Mitchell in "The Book of Job" (1987) makes a case that "tail" was a euphemism for male bits and referred to a bull.

Pariah wrote:

Yes, lying is still a sin, but who is lying? Just the one you want to be accused of lying?

Nope, Wyatt. The lack of evidence is staggering.

Pariah wrote:

A video tape of the 1985-6 field expeditions of Ron, David Fasold and John Baumgardner can be obtained from David Fasold, showing John Baumgardner himself using the metal detector and proving the regularity of the "hotspots".

That's funny. Fasold says the opposite in a paper with geologist Lorence Collins.

http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.html

My favorite quote from Fasold himself: "I believe this may be the oldest running hoax in history. I think we have found what the ancients said was the Ark, but this structure is not Noah's Ark."

Pariah wrote:

Between August 20 and 27 of 1985, CBN did a series of daily broadcasts on the work at the site as these broadcasts were initiated by John Baungardner where in one newscast they report,"...Using a metal detector, Baumgardner has been able to confirm the existence of metal at regular intervals."

Actually, he did not use a metal detector. He used a frequency generator, which is not something I've heard of in any other case.

Pariah wrote:

Turkey wouldn't know what their intentions would be, right? And money that does come their way are in forms of grants... as in, they get it for sure if it is towards "proving" the evolutionary theory.

National Geographic said that Turkey was making it difficult to get there. Tourists they like, debunkers they apparently do not.

Pariah wrote:

Example.. meteorite from Mars prove life hits the media headlines.

If I recall correctly, that wasn't what was said by the scientists. That's what the media heard. The scientists said that formations inside the meteorite were similar to some formed by bacteria on earth.

Pariah wrote:

They get the grant, and afterwards the media published a small article that it wasn't so. What are the chances that you only remembered the headlines?

Not me, since I followed it.

But, see, this is how science works. Someone made a claim. Someone else challenged it, and it was wrong. Claim tossed.

Compare that to how Wyatt works.

[ByronMoreno]

Pariah wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi Voice of Reason,
Here's a puzzle for you.
Why is it in all of my posts, I seem to be coming from New Castle, PA, Ellwood City, PA, and Zielienople, PA.. I think I spelled that right, when I do not live in any of those cities?

I'm sure Ron Wyatt would discover the Lost Modem of the Israelites wandering around Pennsylvania. But don't wait for proof.:)

[brad]

Voice of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
I hear you, Brad, but it seems as if more often than not, the Christians I encounter exhibit the same situational ethics as Edwards and that's where my animosity has its roots and not in global statistics. Maybe it's just the part of the belt where I live.
Case in point, I consider Fed Up (definitely strong in her Christian faith)a friend, and whether she feels the same about me or not, I respect her greatly for her open-mindedness and willingness to discuss objectively considering the moral high ground whether many of us live up to it or not. She lives in another part of the country than I.

I think you should move. Have you considered Oroville?( I am a real estate agent):)
But seriously,
I cannot fathom living a life like that. I have seen marriages fail, even those of Christians, but the focus in Christianity should always be on Jesus, and not the failings of other believers.
An example would be Real Estate. How many horror stories have you heard of them? I am supposing a few too many. But does that make the job any less important? We are the intermediators between an owner who loves thier home, but for some reason needs to sell, and a buyer who likes the home, but wants a bargain. The emotions in this transaction run high. Beyond that, we make sure the proper paperwork is handled, and do the marketing of the home too. So it is a job that needs to be done, but a lot of yahoos can ruin the experience for a lot of people.

[Pariah]

ByronMoreno wrote:

<quoted text>
Now, if you'd like that to be believable, you'd:
1) Show similar anchorstones to demonstrate that it bears a similarity
2) Show pictures of the carvings, along with similar documented carvings elsewhere
That's called "gaining credibility."
Also, what material are the stones made of? Aren't they igneous? In fact, isn't this the chemical composition of these porphyritic volcanic rocks? http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/ark6.html
Why is this important? Well, for starters, such rocks don't exist in Mesopotamia. So how did Noah carve anchor stones with rocks that just happen to be common at his putative landing spot?
Comments?
<quoted text>
Can you cite that?
Maybe this will be of interest to you:
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.html
<quoted text>
That and a buck will get you four quarters.
Problem #1: I have no idea what this class means. Is it an introductory level? How much experience is needed to be proficient?
Problem #2: Even the most proficient, expert user isn't believable until the evidence is independently reviewed.
<quoted text>
Where are you getting that? And the rock around the supposed ark is naturally igneous. So? It's a volcanic region. You do realize that Mt. Ararat is a volcano, right?
<quoted text>
Again, I'm not really sure what you are talking about here. And lava doesn't fossilize things. Ash does. Lave incinerates things. BIG difference.
<quoted text>
Um, there's a generally fixed amount of water (some chemical reactions can create or absorb water). You're talking about an extra 197,359,488 cubic miles of water. That's about 60% of the volume of water in the world.
It came up from the deep? That makes no sense geologically. I think we would have noticed a mile deep global aquifer.
<quoted text>
No, I can't. That sort of volume doesn't exist.
<quoted text>
Nearly every culture talks about floods because nearly every culture experiences them. And when you are in a flood, especially if you concept of the world is limited, it seems the whole world is flooded.
I'd be more impressed with flood myths from, say, the Bushmen of the Kalahari than I would be with myths from, say, Bangladesh.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.h...
I'd love to see evidence of a global flood, though.

Here's one http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/noah/noah27.h...
Here's another
http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/noah/noah34.h...

I believe the hole is the commonality that pagan will not have, thus the use of it as an anchorstone.

You didn't believe there were coins in Moses time. I am not sure why you keep missing that purpose of the hole in the anchorstone, but now you are going to the make up of the stone and its relevance to Mesopotamia. Can you point to a Bible reference that placed Noah's starting point in Mesopotamia?

Just giving a reference. You can ask them.

As for the lava flow, you are right. I did not relay that well. Ash does it just as much as fossilization occurred and quickly at Mt. St. Helena. As far as seafloor evidence, if you missed the cedar tail of Job 40, then you will miss this too.

Did you know that the chinese word "boat" as shown in a pictograph means eight mouth vessel?

http://www.morgenster.org/signs.htm

[ByronMoreno]

Pariah wrote:

<quoted text>
Here's one http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/noah/noah27.h...
Here's another
http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/noah/noah34.h...
I believe the hole is the commonality that pagan will not have, thus the use of it as an anchorstone.

Even if that were true, it doesn't explain how a rock that is geologically similar to other rocks in the area happened to be made into an anchor in Mesopotamia and shipwrecked at exactly the spot it was excavated from.

Come on.

Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that?

Pariah wrote:

You didn't believe there were coins in Moses time.

No, I didn't believe your spiel about the Chinese invading Algeria. Find a cite for that one yet? I mean, other than a website that offers a case of smokes as a prize to kids who write in.

Pariah wrote:

I am not sure why you keep missing that purpose of the hole in the anchorstone, but now you are going to the make up of the stone and its relevance to Mesopotamia. Can you point to a Bible reference that placed Noah's starting point in Mesopotamia?

I'm quoting your boy, Fasold. Any evidence that Noah is from Turkey?

Pariah wrote:

Just giving a reference. You can ask them.
As for the lava flow, you are right. I did not relay that well. Ash does it just as much as fossilization occurred and quickly at Mt. St. Helena.

But the area around the ark isn't ash. It's volcanic rock, which is hardened lava.

Pariah wrote:

As far as seafloor evidence, if you missed the cedar tail of Job 40, then you will miss this too.
Did you know that the chinese word "boat" as shown in a pictograph means eight mouth vessel?
http://www.morgenster.org/signs.htm

Um, okay. Is that supposed to mean something?

[ByronMoreno]

Not to beat a dead horse, but what kind of idiot would make an anchor our of volcanic rock? It has a relatively low density, which is the OPPOSITE of what you are looking for. There's a reason why modern anchors are made out of iron, not plastic.

[Pariah]

ByronMoreno wrote:

Not to beat a dead horse, but what kind of idiot would make an anchor our of volcanic rock? It has a relatively low density, which is the OPPOSITE of what you are looking for. There's a reason why modern anchors are made out of iron, not plastic.

If you believe the report analysis that it was made out of volcanic rock.

And as you said, Fasold says one thing while he is quoted as saying another. Let alone he is providing video tapes to those asking about it. What does your site have? Just printed letters and numbers. Oh yeah. I am definitely going to believe that.

As much as Fasold is co-authoring this paper of your link, why is there no mention of a video to back it up?

But Wyatt has videos backing up their testings.

Hmm...

Reminds me of talkorigin. Started out by a couple of posters losing their arguments done in mockery to believers on Delphi.com so they created this site and referred believers to it. They lied to everyone that came in there as they toted the fetuses drawings as legit. Then I saw someone calling them up on it, proving that science had debunked those drawings a while back. They recanted, but when another newbie came on, they brought up the fetsuses drawings again.

Oh.. and this is the second time I caught you hacking into my folks' computer. Knock it off.

[Pariah]

Seeing how ByronMoreno is taking trips into my folks' computer, I shall hereby leave this format as well as this pointless sharing of beliefs between people that are not looking.

And you all have to wonder why they ( people who do not believe in God at all) are making an effort to be in here about an article they care nothing about.

Like talkorigins, some people just love to sow doubts and lies and misinformation, and the end result? It's not because they care about the "wayward person for believing that there is a God". They just want to debase people for believing at their expense. I am tired of looking for ByronMoreno's sake when he isn't even bothered to look at all.

My perception was he has been ticked off and deceived, but seeing how he is just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, there is no point sharing with those that do not seek. They have already made up their minds and their replies in this article is just for their fun.

I have made my point to believers as to why my faith is the only way... funny how none responded, but got plenty from non-believers. Weird.

[Fed Up in NM]

Voice of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
Whew, I was worried, but I'm not on that page. Thank the gods.

I was worried, too. Glad I'm not on there, either.
Hope you had a great week.

[Fed Up in NM]

Voice of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know. It's bad enough to have an extramarital affair, but to do so while his wife is sick. That tells me that he has no loyalty, no commitment, and especially, no feelings for his wife. That's not what I would consider to be a marriage, unless you label it a marriage of convenience. The moral is when it becomes inconvenient, move on and when the going gets tough, quit and anytthing worth having is not worth putting in the effort.
Ok, let me have it. I'm ready to hear all the enabling excuses that are sure to be posted.

Gingrich did the same thing, didn't he? Maybe it isn't a religious thing. Maybe it is a male thing? ;)

[Fed Up in NM]

Voice of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
I hear you, Brad, but it seems as if more often than not, the Christians I encounter exhibit the same situational ethics as Edwards and that's where my animosity has its roots and not in global statistics. Maybe it's just the part of the belt where I live.
Case in point, I consider Fed Up (definitely strong in her Christian faith)a friend, and whether she feels the same about me or not, I respect her greatly for her open-mindedness and willingness to discuss objectively considering the moral high ground whether many of us live up to it or not. She lives in another part of the country than I.

Aww, thanks! You like me, you really like me! I consider you a friend, too. Even though we have never met and have differing opinions on some things, we do respect each other and do not base our 'friendship' on any 'club rules'.

[Fed Up in NM]

brad wrote:

<quoted text>
I think you should move. Have you considered Oroville?( I am a real estate agent):)
But seriously,
I cannot fathom living a life like that. I have seen marriages fail, even those of Christians, but the focus in Christianity should always be on Jesus, and not the failings of other believers.
An example would be Real Estate. How many horror stories have you heard of them? I am supposing a few too many. But does that make the job any less important? We are the intermediators between an owner who loves thier home, but for some reason needs to sell, and a buyer who likes the home, but wants a bargain. The emotions in this transaction run high. Beyond that, we make sure the proper paperwork is handled, and do the marketing of the home too. So it is a job that needs to be done, but a lot of yahoos can ruin the experience for a lot of people.

I think VoR should move to where I live. We are a very tolerant community, with one exception. But we all ignore that person. In fact, he has become something of a laughingstock, even among those who share his beliefs.

[steve-2304]

brad wrote:

And yes, you hear about many more Christians or people who call themselves Christians who did wrong too. But keep in mind all the people you dont hear about. You can list probably 500 people who have goofed up. What percentage is that of 1 billion?

Are you freakin' serious? I can name 500 Christians in my immediate circle of co-workers, family, friends, and aquaintances that have "goofed up". Probably 80 pct. of every Christian I know has some unChristian "goof ups" in their lives.

What planet do you live on anyway?

[Voice of Reason]

Pariah wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi Voice of Reason,
I give the riddle to you, since your nickname is "Voice of Reason".
As it is, being "open" goes both ways. I really do not see that coming from you, so I am not sure why you expect that from me or anyone else.

Oh, I try to be very reasonable and objective whenever I can, but you may be right that my frustrations may have gotten the better of me lately. I'll have to try harder. Too bad I can't be forgiven since I'm not a Christian.

[Voice of Reason]

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>Gingrich did the same thing, didn't he? Maybe it isn't a religious thing. Maybe it is a male thing? ;)

I think it's merely a character flaw irregardless of gender bias.

[Voice of Reason]

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>Aww, thanks! You like me, you really like me! I consider you a friend, too. Even though we have never met and have differing opinions on some things, we do respect each other and do not base our 'friendship' on any 'club rules'.

Come on now, you already knew that. In case you don't know how crazy I am yet, I was thinking that under different circumstances, I would have asked you to be Godmother to my kids knowing that you would raise them as Christians if anything ever happened to me.

I had to ask myself why. What I learned about myself is that the application of values and morals are much more important to me the theory or underlying reasons.

Have a great day!

[Fed Up in NM]

Voice of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>
Come on now, you already knew that. In case you don't know how crazy I am yet, I was thinking that under different circumstances, I would have asked you to be Godmother to my kids knowing that you would raise them as Christians if anything ever happened to me.
I had to ask myself why. What I learned about myself is that the application of values and morals are much more important to me the theory or underlying reasons.
Have a great day!

I'm flattered! BTW, maybe you should move to a more tolerant area. Although it is harder to find one these days. It seems like there is always something that people are willing to bash others about. For example, out here, if you work for the schools you are pretty much scum. That is the problem with the media and stereotyping.
You have a great day, too!

[Voice of Reason]

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>I'm flattered! BTW, maybe you should move to a more tolerant area. Although it is harder to find one these days. It seems like there is always something that people are willing to bash others about. For example, out here, if you work for the schools you are pretty much scum. That is the problem with the media and stereotyping.
You have a great day, too!

That's quite the surprise knowing that this country is lagging the rest of developed nations in education. I would have thought that teachers are held in the highest regard and we need more of them to reduce the size of the class.

I guess it's the same ole story; people judge you by the company you keep, but I rarely hear of 'bad' teachers. I wonder why your neck of the woods think that way?

[Voice of Reason]

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>I'm flattered! BTW, maybe you should move to a more tolerant area.

I'm reminded of a story:

A couple drove up to someone outside doing some yardwork and asked him what the neighbors were like since they were moving in from out of state.
The man asked what the neighbors were like where they came from. They said that the neighbors back home were busy-bodies, back-stabbers, nosy, inconsiderate, and downright unkind. The man told them that this is pretty much what they would find here and the couple drove off.

A few hours later, another couple stopped and asked the man the same question to which he asked what their neighbors were like back home. The couple said they were the best; kind and considerate, minded their own business but always ready to lend a hand. The man told them that this is pretty much what they could expect here. The thanked him and drove off.

[His Child]

My fellow Christians, knock the dust off your feet and move to the next "town". Seems the unbelievers will never believe as long as there are false accusations and "scientific" proof,(as if you could humanly prove a God thing), to show them otherwise. Again, as I said before, there is more evidence proving the resurrection of Jesus Christ, then there is in proving the exhistence of Julius Ceaser. They have eyes but they do not see. I am very confident in my faith in Christ. NOBODY will convince me otherwise!
Peace and Love ya'll!