Resident rips North Cornwall supervisors

Resident rips North Cornwall supervisors

There are 33 comments on the Lebanon Daily News story from Oct 5, 2010, titled Resident rips North Cornwall supervisors. In it, Lebanon Daily News reports that:

A former township Planning Commission member Tuesday night accused the North Cornwall Township supervisors of understating the cost of a controversial proposed zoning ordinance and deceiving the public about the process involved in hiring the planner.

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NCT Resident

Lebanon, PA

#1 Oct 6, 2010
This is beyond fishy.

Why was the PLANNING Commission not told of this work which would dramatically change PLANNING for the future in a timely manner?

Why was the price tag on this work incorrectly disclosed?

Was the only reason the supervisors did not ram it through at the September meeting because the public caught on and saw the law's ill effects? To have passed it then would have been political suicide.

This needs much more investigation.
H Llamar

Lebanon, PA

#2 Oct 6, 2010
Mr. Heister, please! Rest your sphincters.
carl

Annville, PA

#3 Oct 6, 2010
"shut your mouth" just shows the true demeanor of this man. very poor display.

How about "randy you are out of order, please follow the meeting protocal"
Crap

Williamstown, NJ

#4 Oct 6, 2010
Get ready the tea party loons are coming out of the woodwork on this one. Susan and her crazy conspiracy theories are trying to blow this up. See Lebanon 9-12 project post below.The 9-12 project has turned into a bunch of blue collar people protecting big business. Nothing but a bunch of bullies with no ideas.

"Greetings all!

I have been following the re-zoning in North Cornwall Twp. and thought that you might want to get involved. The Chamber of Commerce and Lebanon County Association of Realtors already have tried to raise awareness.

N. Cornwall Twp is considering the Roth Plan http://www.rothplan.net/index.htm .

Harry Roth is originally from Chicago and quotes a progressive on his website's home page. At the last meeting, Harry Roth declared the 450 pages a "progressive" plan. Harry Roth is a true progressive and would like to change Lebanon County into his progressive vision by taking away your freedoms.

Some of the complaints are the following:
You would have a list of approved plants to put in your yard.
If you live in a mixed use zone, gardens are forbidden.
You can only have 3 yard sales a year.
Noise cannot excede 50 decibels.
You cannot put up Christmas lights more than 30 days before Christmas and have to take them down no later than 30 days after Christmas.
Businesses must replace signs every 5 years.
Biz signs must dedicate a portion to the public good.
There is a lot more, but you get the idea.

What do you think will happen to Real Estate values? As a Realtor, we have to inform potential buyers about anything going on in the area. Who wants to move into an area with 450 pages of rules and regulations?

Attendees at the second meeting were told that the new rules would only be enforced when someone complained. Does that sound reasonable? It sounds like selective enforcement to me. What happens if someone decides to make your life miserable?

While searching for information concerning N.Cornwall, I found out that all 5 municipalities in the C-L school district are looking into a comprehensive plan.

Last week at the N. Londonderry Township meeting, they gave an update on their re-zoning under Harry Roth. Palmyra is also looking at a Harry Roth plan.

I have heard rumblings that the whole county is considering a comprehensive plan. No doubt Harry Roth will be there to shepherd us into a better way of living.

I am not sure who started this avalanche but I wonder if anyone questioned his billing. It is my understanding that it will take a lot more money and time than what he tells the municipalities.

I am urging each of you to get involved and check out what is going on in this county. This is a cancer that will spread if we do not stop it now. There is strength in numbers.

The next meeting at N. Cornwall will be this Wed. at 6 at the Neversink Fire Co. In closing I have included an endorsement that Harry Roth chose to include on his website.

"I still remember with wonder and fondness, Harry Roth's shepherding of our regional comprehensive plan to a successful conclusion. The sheep were a township, four boroughs and a school district, all of which were wary of each other. The odds were against him but he prevailed through hard work and force of personality backed up by an unsurpassed breadth and depth of knowledge. I wholeheartedly recommend Harry Roth to anyone wishing to put into place state-of-the-art plans and regulations."

Patrick Fero, Supervisor
Chair, Planning Commission
Shrewsbury Township, York County
(Co-founder and former Chair, Southern York County Regional Planning Commission)


I don't consider Harry Roth my shepherd. Hope to see you all Wed.

Susan Emrich"
Morbius

York, PA

#5 Oct 6, 2010
Crap wrote:
Get ready the tea party loons are coming out of the woodwork on this one. Susan and her crazy conspiracy theories are trying to blow this up. See Lebanon 9-12 project post below.The 9-12 project has turned into a bunch of blue collar people protecting big business. Nothing but a bunch of bullies with no ideas.
"Greetings all!
I have been following the re-zoning in North Cornwall Twp. and thought that you might want to get involved. The Chamber of Commerce and Lebanon County Association of Realtors already have tried to raise awareness.
N. Cornwall Twp is considering the Roth Plan http://www.rothplan.net/index.htm .
Harry Roth is originally from Chicago and quotes a progressive on his website's home page. At the last meeting, Harry Roth declared the 450 pages a "progressive" plan. Harry Roth is a true progressive and would like to change Lebanon County into his progressive vision by taking away your freedoms.
Some of the complaints are the following:
You would have a list of approved plants to put in your yard.
If you live in a mixed use zone, gardens are forbidden.
You can only have 3 yard sales a year.
Noise cannot excede 50 decibels.
You cannot put up Christmas lights more than 30 days before Christmas and have to take them down no later than 30 days after Christmas.
Businesses must replace signs every 5 years.
Biz signs must dedicate a portion to the public good.
There is a lot more, but you get the idea.
What do you think will happen to Real Estate values? As a Realtor, we have to inform potential buyers about anything going on in the area. Who wants to move into an area with 450 pages of rules and regulations?
Attendees at the second meeting were told that the new rules would only be enforced when someone complained. Does that sound reasonable? It sounds like selective enforcement to me. What happens if someone decides to make your life miserable?
While searching for information concerning N.Cornwall, I found out that all 5 municipalities in the C-L school district are looking into a comprehensive plan.
Last week at the N. Londonderry Township meeting, they gave an update on their re-zoning under Harry Roth. Palmyra is also looking at a Harry Roth plan.
I have heard rumblings that the whole county is considering a comprehensive plan. No doubt Harry Roth will be there to shepherd us into a better way of living.
I am not sure who started this avalanche but I wonder if anyone questioned his billing. It is my understanding that it will take a lot more money and time than what he tells the municipalities.
I am urging each of you to get involved and check out what is going on in this county. This is a cancer that will spread if we do not stop it now. There is strength in numbers.
The next meeting at N. Cornwall will be this Wed. at 6 at the Neversink Fire Co. In closing I have included an endorsement that Harry Roth chose to include on his website.
"I still remember with wonder and fondness, Harry Roth's shepherding of our regional comprehensive plan to a successful conclusion. The sheep were a township, four boroughs and a school district, all of which were wary of each other. The odds were against him but he prevailed through hard work and force of personality backed up by an unsurpassed breadth and depth of knowledge. I wholeheartedly recommend Harry Roth to anyone wishing to put into place state-of-the-art plans and regulations."
Patrick Fero, Supervisor
Chair, Planning Commission
Shrewsbury Township, York County
(Co-founder and former Chair, Southern York County Regional Planning Commission)
I don't consider Harry Roth my shepherd. Hope to see you all Wed.
Susan Emrich"
So, if taxpaying citizens organize to protest proposed changes that stink all over, they are nothing but "loons" in your book?

Spoken like a true fascist.
LePetomane

Lebanon, PA

#6 Oct 6, 2010
H Llamar wrote:
Mr. Heister, please! Rest your sphincters.
Well put.
Morbius

York, PA

#7 Oct 6, 2010
Oops! Sorry about the duplication of the previous post.
HUH

Harrisburg, PA

#8 Oct 6, 2010
What is wrong with asking questions and holding our officials accountable unless there is something to hide?
Morbius

York, PA

#9 Oct 6, 2010
HUH wrote:
What is wrong with asking questions and holding our officials accountable unless there is something to hide?
Nothing.

Which is precisely why the response of the NC supervisors should raise more questions of everyone in the township.
Hammer

Collingswood, NJ

#10 Oct 6, 2010
Crap wrote:
Get ready the tea party loons are coming out of the woodwork on this one. Susan and her crazy conspiracy theories are trying to blow this up. See Lebanon 9-12 project post below.The 9-12 project has turned into a bunch of blue collar people protecting big business. Nothing but a bunch of bullies with no ideas.
Crap, if you had been at the first public hearing in late August held at the Neversink Fire Company, you would have seen 200 people who attended - 99% of who were against this terrible ordinance. They weren't loons. They were thoughtful, concerned residents and business owners of both Republican and Democrat parties. Reputable business leaders such as Larry Bowman, Tom Buzby, Fred Laurenzo, Randy Ebersole, E. H. Arnold, Tom Siegel, Randy Hoffman, Jeff Steckbeck, Fred Wolfson, John Gross, Mike Deitzler, Brooks Trefsgar, Dr. Maria, Marty Yocum, and several others were there to express concerns about the ordinance, and to my knowledge none of them are Tea Party members.
WHOA

Lebanon, PA

#11 Oct 6, 2010
HUH wrote:
What is wrong with asking questions and holding our officials accountable unless there is something to hide?
This is outrageous. The supervisors must be off their rockers...You don't know how much you paid a guy to do your plan? Who signed the checks? How did you forget to mention an entire rezoning to the planning commission? What were they doing for the year that they did not know of the rezoning?

Thank goodness there are some people who are exposing these men for what they are.

HUH

Harrisburg, PA

#12 Oct 6, 2010
Crap wrote:
Get ready the tea party loons are coming out of the woodwork on this one. Susan and her crazy conspiracy theories are trying to blow this up. See Lebanon 9-12 project post below.The 9-12 project has turned into a bunch of blue collar people protecting big business. Nothing but a bunch of bullies with no ideas.
"Greetings all!
I have been following the re-zoning in North Cornwall Twp. and thought that you might want to get involved. The Chamber of Commerce and Lebanon County Association of Realtors already have tried to raise awareness.
N. Cornwall Twp is considering the Roth Plan http://www.rothplan.net/index.htm .
Harry Roth is originally from Chicago and quotes a progressive on his website's home page. At the last meeting, Harry Roth declared the 450 pages a "progressive" plan. Harry Roth is a true progressive and would like to change Lebanon County into his progressive vision by taking away your freedoms.
Some of the complaints are the following:
You would have a list of approved plants to put in your yard.
If you live in a mixed use zone, gardens are forbidden.
You can only have 3 yard sales a year.
Noise cannot excede 50 decibels.
You cannot put up Christmas lights more than 30 days before Christmas and have to take them down no later than 30 days after Christmas.
Businesses must replace signs every 5 years.
Biz signs must dedicate a portion to the public good.
There is a lot more, but you get the idea.
What do you think will happen to Real Estate values? As a Realtor, we have to inform potential buyers about anything going on in the area. Who wants to move into an area with 450 pages of rules and regulations?
Attendees at the second meeting were told that the new rules would only be enforced when someone complained. Does that sound reasonable? It sounds like selective enforcement to me. What happens if someone decides to make your life miserable?
While searching for information concerning N.Cornwall, I found out that all 5 municipalities in the C-L school district are looking into a comprehensive plan.
Last week at the N. Londonderry Township meeting, they gave an update on their re-zoning under Harry Roth. Palmyra is also looking at a Harry Roth plan.
I have heard rumblings that the whole county is considering a comprehensive plan. No doubt Harry Roth will be there to shepherd us into a better way of living.
I am not sure who started this avalanche but I wonder if anyone questioned his billing. It is my understanding that it will take a lot more money and time than what he tells the municipalities.
I am urging each of you to get involved and check out what is going on in this county. This is a cancer that will spread if we do not stop it now. There is strength in numbers.
The next meeting at N. Cornwall will be this Wed. at 6 at the Neversink Fire Co. In closing I have included an endorsement that Harry Roth chose to include on his website.
"I still remember with wonder and fondness, Harry Roth's shepherding of our regional comprehensive plan to a successful conclusion. The sheep were a township, four boroughs and a school district, all of which were wary of each other. The odds were against him but he prevailed through hard work and force of personality backed up by an unsurpassed breadth and depth of knowledge. I wholeheartedly recommend Harry Roth to anyone wishing to put into place state-of-the-art plans and regulations."
Patrick Fero, Supervisor
Chair, Planning Commission
Shrewsbury Township, York County
(Co-founder and former Chair, Southern York County Regional Planning Commission)
I don't consider Harry Roth my shepherd. Hope to see you all Wed.
Susan Emrich"
Would you please identify big businesses? We certainly don't want big business in Lebanon or anywhere else.
Its About Time

Collingswood, NJ

#13 Oct 6, 2010
FINALLY! Someone has questioned the financial accountability of these public officials, who work for us, the taxpayers. But now, go one step further. How much money has been spent in the last five years, all in the name of trying to "protect us"? Taxpayer dollars have been squandered on pushing forth the Supervisors own personal agendas (stop development and growth, which also translates to stop increasing tax dollars coming into the township to help current taxpayers shoulder the burden). The Supervisors said "they haven't had to raise taxes too much in the past few years". Thatís because they have been bleeding the accounts without trying to replace the revenues. If they would have raised taxes too much, in order to replace the revenue, more people would have started to question "why?" a lot sooner and started to investigate the financials. Then the public would have become aware of their mismanagement of the taxpayer's money much sooner than the Supervisors would have wanted. How long before NCT must increase taxes dramatically or resort to Act 47?(Act 47 is a state-managed "safety net" that provides financially distressed municipalities with state-prescribed recovery plans while requiring them to cut costs.) If any of this information had come to light sooner, it would have brought a lot more negative attention to the Supervisors. Thanks Mr. Siegel for bringing this atrocity to the public's attention. I am sure there is more work to be done, so keep diggin'. NCT Supervisors are like the Titanic and we all know what happened there. "Iceberg dead ahead". And this information is just the tip of the Iceberg!
Taxpayer

Harrisburg, PA

#14 Oct 6, 2010
Crap wrote:
Get ready the tea party loons are coming out of the woodwork on this one. Susan and her crazy conspiracy theories are trying to blow this up. See Lebanon 9-12 project post below.The 9-12 project has turned into a bunch of blue collar people protecting big business. Nothing but a bunch of bullies with no ideas.
"Greetings all!
I have been following the re-zoning in North Cornwall Twp. and thought that you might want to get involved. The Chamber of Commerce and Lebanon County Association of Realtors already have tried to raise awareness.
N. Cornwall Twp is considering the Roth Plan http://www.rothplan.net/index.htm .
Harry Roth is originally from Chicago and quotes a progressive on his website's home page. At the last meeting, Harry Roth declared the 450 pages a "progressive" plan. Harry Roth is a true progressive and would like to change Lebanon County into his progressive vision by taking away your freedoms.
Some of the complaints are the following:
You would have a list of approved plants to put in your yard.
If you live in a mixed use zone, gardens are forbidden.
You can only have 3 yard sales a year.
Noise cannot excede 50 decibels.
You cannot put up Christmas lights more than 30 days before Christmas and have to take them down no later than 30 days after Christmas.
Businesses must replace signs every 5 years.
Biz signs must dedicate a portion to the public good.
There is a lot more, but you get the idea.
What do you think will happen to Real Estate values? As a Realtor, we have to inform potential buyers about anything going on in the area. Who wants to move into an area with 450 pages of rules and regulations?
Attendees at the second meeting were told that the new rules would only be enforced when someone complained. Does that sound reasonable? It sounds like selective enforcement to me. What happens if someone decides to make your life miserable?
While searching for information concerning N.Cornwall, I found out that all 5 municipalities in the C-L school district are looking into a comprehensive plan.
Last week at the N. Londonderry Township meeting, they gave an update on their re-zoning under Harry Roth. Palmyra is also looking at a Harry Roth plan.
I have heard rumblings that the whole county is considering a comprehensive plan. No doubt Harry Roth will be there to shepherd us into a better way of living.
I am not sure who started this avalanche but I wonder if anyone questioned his billing. It is my understanding that it will take a lot more money and time than what he tells the municipalities.
I am urging each of you to get involved and check out what is going on in this county. This is a cancer that will spread if we do not stop it now. There is strength in numbers.
The next meeting at N. Cornwall will be this Wed. at 6 at the Neversink Fire Co. In closing I have included an endorsement that Harry Roth chose to include on his website.
"I still remember with wonder and fondness, Harry Roth's shepherding of our regional comprehensive plan to a successful conclusion. The sheep were a township, four boroughs and a school district, all of which were wary of each other. The odds were against him but he prevailed through hard work and force of personality backed up by an unsurpassed breadth and depth of knowledge. I wholeheartedly recommend Harry Roth to anyone wishing to put into place state-of-the-art plans and regulations."
Patrick Fero, Supervisor
Chair, Planning Commission
Shrewsbury Township, York County
(Co-founder and former Chair, Southern York County Regional Planning Commission)
I don't consider Harry Roth my shepherd. Hope to see you all Wed.
Susan Emrich"
This plan doesn't pass the stink test. I guess you want me to sit down and shut up too.
LouAnne

United States

#15 Oct 6, 2010
HUH wrote:
What is wrong with asking questions and holding our officials accountable unless there is something to hide?
; )

________
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy"

-Nancy Pelosi
Stink Test

Lebanon, PA

#16 Oct 6, 2010
Hey Ellie, check your facts.

Siegel was only put on the planning commission after his deal was closed and settled.
Morbius

York, PA

#17 Oct 6, 2010
Something wicked comes the way of North Cornwall; time for the citizens to make their voices heard?
Ricky Ricardo

Collingswood, NJ

#18 Oct 6, 2010
"Heister acknowledged that Roth's hiring for the purpose of rewriting the zoning ordinance was not recorded in meeting minutes, but said he did not know why." - This should be easy to determine. The Township manager records the meetings so that the meeting minutes can be created. I would think the meeting tapes would need to be kept for a certain period of time. If the approval of hiring Roth to do the Zoning re-write is on the tape, then the Supervisors are in the clear. If it is not on the tape, then the Supervisors have a problem. If they no longer have the tape, then the Supervisors AND the Township Manager have a problem. If the Township Manager didn't record the meeting minutes properly and include the hiring of Roth, then the Manager has a problem. However, bottom line is the Supervisors typically approve all meeting minutes at the next Supervisors meeting. So they are responsible for making sure the meeting minutes are correct and accurate prior to approval. It appears they approved meeting minutes at some point that didn't contain the proper account of a previous meeting which would have included Mr. Roth's hiring. This is a significant piece of information and surely you would want to make sure this is recorded properly. OR... Mr. Roth was hired and it was not done during a public meeting. "Lucy, you got some splainin to do!"
show me da money

Lewistown, PA

#19 Oct 6, 2010
none of the people involved in getting this all passed are 100% on the up and up...anyone elected has always had an agenda of their own and it eventually comes to light.
Morbius

York, PA

#20 Oct 6, 2010
Ricky Ricardo wrote:
"Heister acknowledged that Roth's hiring for the purpose of rewriting the zoning ordinance was not recorded in meeting minutes, but said he did not know why." - This should be easy to determine. The Township manager records the meetings so that the meeting minutes can be created. I would think the meeting tapes would need to be kept for a certain period of time. If the approval of hiring Roth to do the Zoning re-write is on the tape, then the Supervisors are in the clear. If it is not on the tape, then the Supervisors have a problem. If they no longer have the tape, then the Supervisors AND the Township Manager have a problem. If the Township Manager didn't record the meeting minutes properly and include the hiring of Roth, then the Manager has a problem. However, bottom line is the Supervisors typically approve all meeting minutes at the next Supervisors meeting. So they are responsible for making sure the meeting minutes are correct and accurate prior to approval. It appears they approved meeting minutes at some point that didn't contain the proper account of a previous meeting which would have included Mr. Roth's hiring. This is a significant piece of information and surely you would want to make sure this is recorded properly. OR... Mr. Roth was hired and it was not done during a public meeting. "Lucy, you got some splainin to do!"
Sounds like they have a lot of 'splainin' to do...

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