The Shroud of Turin

A team of computer artists has created a computer-generated 3D image of Jesus Christ's face based on the image on the Shroud of Turin. Full Story
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Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#517 Dec 16, 2011
Pax et Bonum wrote:
<quoted text>
Most bishops appoint a priest to be trained as an exorcist for their diocese. This is not widely known or publicised. There must be much caution when dealing with those who believe themselves to be possessed.
i don't get it tho, y is it that the catholics get possessed? do non-catholics get catholic exorcisms?
Pax et Bonum

Atwater, OH

#520 Dec 17, 2011
TheJazuma wrote:
<quoted text>
i don't get it tho, y is it that the catholics get possessed? do non-catholics get catholic exorcisms?
Possession by demons runs through all Christian belief systems as it is written of in the Gospels. As to a non-Catholic asking for a Catholic ritual of exorcism to be performed on them I personally do not know of it happening but that doesn't mean it couldn't have.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#521 Dec 17, 2011
Pax et Bonum wrote:
<quoted text>
Possession by demons runs through all Christian belief systems as it is written of in the Gospels. As to a non-Catholic asking for a Catholic ritual of exorcism to be performed on them I personally do not know of it happening but that doesn't mean it couldn't have.
That's cool, but the movies always focus on the "pious" Catholic girl who gets wickedly possessed. Why is that? Why always the "pious"?
Pax et Bonum

Atwater, OH

#522 Dec 19, 2011
TheJazuma wrote:
<quoted text>
That's cool, but the movies always focus on the "pious" Catholic girl who gets wickedly possessed. Why is that? Why always the "pious"?
You are asking me about the inner workings of Hollywood. Their presentation of Catholics are works of fiction. In that they film what sells not what is reality.
Sherlane

Hamburg, NJ

#523 Dec 20, 2011
Pax et Bonum wrote:
<quoted text>
Possession by demons runs through all Christian belief systems as it is written of in the Gospels. As to a non-Catholic asking for a Catholic ritual of exorcism to be performed on them I personally do not know of it happening but that doesn't mean it couldn't have.
Good answer, Pax. I tend to not believe in things like that, but that doesn't mean they don't happen. I keep an open mind. One time a friend of my son's brought a OUIJA BOARD to our house and I refused to let them play with it. Even if they have no power, it's very disrespectful to God to mess with things like that. I personally would not chance it.
Pax et Bonum

Atwater, OH

#524 Dec 20, 2011
Sherlane wrote:
<quoted text>
Good answer, Pax. I tend to not believe in things like that, but that doesn't mean they don't happen. I keep an open mind. One time a friend of my son's brought a OUIJA BOARD to our house and I refused to let them play with it. Even if they have no power, it's very disrespectful to God to mess with things like that. I personally would not chance it.
I had a OUIJA board. I got it for Christmas one year. I didn't know at the time the black influence of the thing. I had an experience with it that scared me and I tossed it.
Sherlane

Hamburg, NJ

#525 Dec 20, 2011
Pax et Bonum wrote:
<quoted text>
I had a OUIJA board. I got it for Christmas one year. I didn't know at the time the black influence of the thing. I had an experience with it that scared me and I tossed it.
Good that you got rid of it. Any experience with something like that would scare me also.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#526 Dec 22, 2011
Dec 22,2011

Shroud of Turin Is Real, Scientists Claim, Citing New Evidence

http://www.christianpost.com/news/shroud-of-t...
Sherlane

Hamburg, NJ

#527 Dec 22, 2011
downhill246 wrote:
Dec 22,2011
Shroud of Turin Is Real, Scientists Claim, Citing New Evidence
http://www.christianpost.com/news/shroud-of-t...
Interesting - but I wonder if they'll ever know for sure.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#528 Dec 22, 2011
Sherlane wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting - but I wonder if they'll ever know for sure.
If it can be shown that it is an authentic shroud from the 1st century then the overwhelming odds are that it is the burial shroud of Jesus Christ.

Reasons why the shroud would be the shroud of Jesus.

The majority of crucifixion victims were either thrown to the dogs or placed in mass graves eliminating a shroud altogether.

Researchers state the victim imprinted on the shroud was a male between the ages of thirty to fifty.

The victim on the shroud was Jewish . I believe the ponytail was Common to Jews of that era.

The shroud reveals whip marks by a Roman flagrum and experts said there were most likely two torturers, agreeing with scripture.

There are at least 120 blows with the two-tailed lashes, each tail had a barbell-shaped metal flagrum (tip). Scientists have found there were more than 220 flagrum bruises that broke the skin. Jewish law permitted flogging only to a maximum of forty lashes, and the Pharisees in their piety reduced that number to thirty-nine. Roman law and practice knew no limitation in this respect, and so we can be sure it was a Roman scourging inflicted on a non-Roman; it was against the law to scourge a Roman citizen..


The shroud itself is of a fine, expensive weave that a wealthy person like Joseph of Arimathea would possess which corresponds to scripture.

The cloth’s finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada. The Masada fabrics have been reliably carbon dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE

Tradition, though it has gaps, speaks of a cloth not made by human hands given to King Abgar of Edessa in the 2nd century by followers of Christ.

The Sudarium of Oveido which has a known history to the 7th century is purported to be the cloth put over the face of Jesus when He died.

The frontal stains on the sudarium show seventy points of coincidence with the Shroud, and the rear side shows fifty.

The shroud has pollen found in Jerusalem, and the Edessa /Constantinople region which corresponds with the King Abgar tradition.

Particles of dirt found on the shroud match a relatively rare form of calcite, travertine aragonite limestone, which is found in ancient Jewish tombs in Israel.

Images of 28 different types of flowers, small bushes, and thorns have been detected in bunches around the Shroud image. All 28 grow in Israel, either in Jerusalem or in the nearby desert or Dead Sea area.. 25 of the 28 flowers matched the pollen samples found on the Shroud. 27 of the 28 plants bloom during March and April, which corresponds to the time of the crucifixion.



T

The victim wore a full crown of thorns agreeing with scripture.

The victim did not have his legs broken, agreeing with scripture.

The victim had his side pierced apparently by a Roman spear penetrating the lung and heart causing the phenomena of "blood and water."

The victim remained in the shroud for a very short time because there is no physical signs of decay on the cloth.

In the Roman Catacomb Catacomb of Saints Achilleus and Nereus is found a fresco of Jesus Christ that was copied by the 19th century artist, Thomas Heaphy . Historians believe the original was done by those that witnessed Him or were guided by those that did (Peter,Paul). There is a striking similarity between the face on the shroud and the fresco in the catacomb.

That is why I, and many others, believe the shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.
The Oracle

UK

#529 Dec 23, 2011
Pax et Bonum wrote:
<quoted text>
You are asking me about the inner workings of Hollywood. Their presentation of Catholics are works of fiction. In that they film what sells not what is reality.

You're nearly right Pax. Just a factual edit required.

Take by example the inner workings of the Vatican. Their presentation of Catholics are works of fiction. In that they peddle what sells (to their deluded throng), NOT what is reality.
GOD101

Orlando, FL

#530 Dec 23, 2011
downhill246 wrote:
Dec 22,2011
Shroud of Turin Is Real, Scientists Claim, Citing New Evidence
http://www.christianpost.com/news/shroud-of-t...
That's not what the article said.
Yet another point to consider -- would Jesus as an observant Jew have had long hair as depicted in the Shroud?
Almost certainly not.
hello

France

#531 Dec 23, 2011
hellotoeveryone
downhill246

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#532 Dec 23, 2011
GOD101 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what the article said.
Yet another point to consider -- would Jesus as an observant Jew have had long hair as depicted in the Shroud?
Almost certainly not.


Absolutely.

According to R.C. Dentan in an article written for The Interpreter's Bible Dictionary:
"HAIR. The hair's capacity for constant growth has always made it seem an important seat of life and, therefore, religiously significant. The most notable example of this in the Bible is in the case of the NAZIRITE VOW (Num. 6:12 1; Judg. 13:5; 16:17; 1 Sam. 1: I 1), one aspect of which was to allow the hair to grow long so that it might be presented to God as an offering (Num. 6: 18; Acts 18:18; 21:23-24). Samson's hair, in the final form of the story (Judg. 13:5), appears to have been left long in fulfillment of such a vow, although originally it had a more primitive significance as the repository of his strength Judg. 16:19, 22). The shaving of the head in mourning (Job 1:20; Isa. 15:2; Jer. 41:5; 47:5; 48:37; Ezek. 7:18) and the offering of the hair to the dead were part of ancient religious practice, but forbidden to the Hebrews (Deut. 14: 1). Indeed, the complete shaving of the head was forbidden to them for any purpose (Lev. 19:27; cf. Jer. 9:26; Ezek. 44:20). In the OT, long hair on men was greatly admired (II Sam. 14:25-26; cf. Song of S. 5:2, 1 1), but in the NT it is frowned upon as contrary to nature (I Cor. II: 14). Although women wore their hair long (I Cor. 11:15), the biblical writers deplore the excessive ornamentation of it (Isa. 3:24; 1 Pet. 3:3). The hair is a symbol of the fine (Judg. 20:16), the small (Luke 21:18),and the numerous (Matt. 10:30)."
downhill246

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#533 Dec 23, 2011
GOD101 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what the article said.
Yet another point to consider -- would Jesus as an observant Jew have had long hair as depicted in the Shroud?
Almost certainly not.
Yet the argument by skeptics is it is a Middle age forgery. Apparently it is not but then I believed otherwise for years.

"But among the rest, there was also another of the minsters, which was called the Church of my Lady Saint Mary of Blachernae, within which was the shroud wherein Our Lord was wrapped. And on every Friday that shroud did raise itself upright, so that the form of Our Lord could clearly be seen. And none knows - neither Greek nor Frank - what became of that shroud when the city was taken".
Robert de Clari's account of the Fourth Crusade, Chapter 91 La conquête de Constantinople
Eyewitness account of the sacking of Constantinople by a Crusader knight(1204 AD)

Pope Stephen III (reigned 752 to 757 CE) stated that Christ had :
"spread out his entire body on a linen cloth that was white as snow. On this cloth, marvelous as it is to see ... the glorious image of the Lord's face, and the length of his entire and most noble body, has been divinely transferred."

Some scholars believe that the Hymn of the Pearl found in the Acts of Thomas(200-225 AD) describe the burial shroud of Jesus Christ.

"Suddenly, I saw my image on my [burial ] garment like in a mirror. Myself and myself through myself [or myself facing outward and inward ] As though divided, yet one likeness Two images but one likeness of the King of kings "
Sherlane

Hamburg, NJ

#534 Dec 23, 2011
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
If it can be shown that it is an authentic shroud from the 1st century then the overwhelming odds are that it is the burial shroud of Jesus Christ.
Reasons why the shroud would be the shroud of Jesus.
The majority of crucifixion victims were either thrown to the dogs or placed in mass graves eliminating a shroud altogether.
Researchers state the victim imprinted on the shroud was a male between the ages of thirty to fifty.
The victim on the shroud was Jewish . I believe the ponytail was Common to Jews of that era.
The shroud reveals whip marks by a Roman flagrum and experts said there were most likely two torturers, agreeing with scripture.
There are at least 120 blows with the two-tailed lashes, each tail had a barbell-shaped metal flagrum (tip). Scientists have found there were more than 220 flagrum bruises that broke the skin. Jewish law permitted flogging only to a maximum of forty lashes, and the Pharisees in their piety reduced that number to thirty-nine. Roman law and practice knew no limitation in this respect, and so we can be sure it was a Roman scourging inflicted on a non-Roman; it was against the law to scourge a Roman citizen..
The shroud itself is of a fine, expensive weave that a wealthy person like Joseph of Arimathea would possess which corresponds to scripture.
The cloth’s finishing, its selvage, and a very distinctive joining seam, all closely resemble unique ancient textiles found in tombs of the Jewish palace-fortress Masada. The Masada fabrics have been reliably carbon dated to between 40 BCE and 73 CE
Tradition, though it has gaps, speaks of a cloth not made by human hands given to King Abgar of Edessa in the 2nd century by followers of Christ.
The Sudarium of Oveido which has a known history to the 7th century is purported to be the cloth put over the face of Jesus when He died.
The frontal stains on the sudarium show seventy points of coincidence with the Shroud, and the rear side shows fifty.
The shroud has pollen found in Jerusalem, and the Edessa /Constantinople region which corresponds with the King Abgar tradition.
Particles of dirt found on the shroud match a relatively rare form of calcite, travertine aragonite limestone, which is found in ancient Jewish tombs in Israel.
Images of 28 different types of flowers, small bushes, and thorns have been detected in bunches around the Shroud image. All 28 grow in Israel, either in Jerusalem or in the nearby desert or Dead Sea area.. 25 of the 28 flowers matched the pollen samples found on the Shroud. 27 of the 28 plants bloom during March and April, which corresponds to the time of the crucifixion.
T
The victim wore a full crown of thorns agreeing with scripture.
The victim did not have his legs broken, agreeing with scripture.
The victim had his side pierced apparently by a Roman spear penetrating the lung and heart causing the phenomena of "blood and water."
The victim remained in the shroud for a very short time because there is no physical signs of decay on the cloth.
In the Roman Catacomb Catacomb of Saints Achilleus and Nereus is found a fresco of Jesus Christ that was copied by the 19th century artist, Thomas Heaphy . Historians believe the original was done by those that witnessed Him or were guided by those that did (Peter,Paul). There is a striking similarity between the face on the shroud and the fresco in the catacomb.
That is why I, and many others, believe the shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.
Very, very interesting! Some people here may not believe me, but I actually hope it IS authentic. I don't like being constantly in doubt. I'd love something real to cling to.
Sherlane

Hamburg, NJ

#536 Dec 23, 2011
rollerblades wrote:
Just saw it tonight on the history channel ...very cool.
Darn, sorry I missed it.
Sherlane

Hamburg, NJ

#537 Dec 24, 2011
I'm very fascinated by the Shroud, but I wonder if the truth will ever be known?

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