Transgender Ga. woman claims she was wrongly fired

[Dissident]

Rikki S wrote:

.... Why would someone who is well educated and has a job with a great deal of respect "choose" to change genders unless it is something they were born with? Why has transgenderism been around for entire recorded history? Why does transgenderism occur across all countries, all socioeconomic groups, all races, all religions...? There has to be a physiological reason that we have not proven, that is why.

Let me also reiterate that I truly believe that both GID and MPD patients are 100% convinced of their identities...that's not the issue...I don't believe "choice" plays a role or has anything to do with this. It's how we approach both cases so differently.

One condition is treated as a mental disorder with the hopes of a cure or management with a precise and accurate identity as the goal. The other condition is validated and surgically altered to accommodate the mental convictions of the patient with physical revision as the goal.

[Dissident]

Rikki S wrote:

<quoted text>
You make a very logical argument. That is the way most people believe, and rightfully so. They knew that their genitals defined who they were, whereas someone with GID believes otherwise. The huge difference here is that no matter what type of psych or medical treatment is tried on someone with GID, there is NO "cure". The other big difference is that someone who suffers from GID has zero effect on those around them, unless that person decides they want to be effected. Someone with MPD can be disruptive and unpredictable, depending on which "personality" shows up.

Great...it seems we've found civil discourse...I appreciate that.

The symptomatic realities of both are byproducts not necessarily relevant to the point I'm trying to make. Though I would think that a person with MPD could be accommodated as well as a GID patient. Though you're right, it would be disruptive to someone familiar with one personality and startled by a stark change or complete manifestation of a new personality.

In a tolerant world, we would have to also accommodate those of who are not comfortable with someone who has changed their gender identity...given they too are familiar with the person and witnessed the transformation. That too can be disruptive. The paradox being that tolerance has allowances for the intolerant....or accepting only total tolerance is, by definition, intolerant.

[Rikki S]

Dissident wrote:

<quoted text>
Let me also reiterate that I truly believe that both GID and MPD patients are 100% convinced of their identities...that's not the issue...I don't believe "choice" plays a role or has anything to do with this. It's how we approach both cases so differently.
One condition is treated as a mental disorder with the hopes of a cure or management with a precise and accurate identity as the goal. The other condition is validated and surgically altered to accommodate the mental convictions of the patient with physical revision as the goal.

Let's look at this from a different angle. Someone with MPD is diagnosed when they are brought to a mental health professional by someone else. They don't usually seek help on their own. Someone with GID seeks help nearly 100% of the time on their own. Now if someone walks into a medical professional's office and asks for help dealing with GID, then why can't they be cured? They want to be cured and have gone to the person who can help them. It just doesn't make logical sense to me that someone would walk freely into a medical office seeking help for a problem, then continue on the path they were on before despite all attempts at help. This person, by continuing with gender change, risks loosing everything they have worked for and the know it, seek help for it not to happen, yet go through with it anyway. Where is the logic in this, unless of course it is biological?

[Rikki S]

Dissident wrote:

<quoted text>....The symptomatic realities of both are byproducts not necessarily relevant to the point I'm trying to make. Though I would think that a person with MPD could be accommodated as well as a GID patient. Though you're right, it would be disruptive to someone familiar with one personality and startled by a stark change or complete manifestation of a new personality.
In a tolerant world, we would have to also accommodate those of who are not comfortable with someone who has changed their gender identity...given they too are familiar with the person and witnessed the transformation. That too can be disruptive. The paradox being that tolerance has allowances for the intolerant....or accepting only total tolerance is, by definition, intolerant.

And what would the difference in acceptance be of a co-worker who just got married to the local slut or divorced from one everyone believes to be a saint? Both of these mean you are dealing with someone you "thought" you knew. Why can't people judge other people by their work and personality not on what they believe to be the truth? It really reminds me of the 60's and the upheaval around equal rights for blacks. Everyone "knew" that no "darky" could be trusted or could work as well as a white person. Funny thing is that once they were given equal rights, we found out that they were people capable of everything their white counterparts could do.

[Robot]

This MAN is a freak. Before his sex "change" he was a man. After his sex "change" he is now a man with fake breasts and no ****

[KMc]

Robot wrote:

This MAN is a freak. Before his sex "change" he was a man. After his sex "change" he is now a man with fake breasts and no ****

When is the rest of the human race going to stop catering to these freaks ?

[Dyssonance]

define "Freak".

And, note, I am setting a trap.

[Dyssonance]

Dissident,

Once I finish with my bf I will give you some further things to consider.

[Zoe Brain]

Dissident wrote:

<quoted text>
Great...it seems we've found civil discourse...I appreciate that.
The symptomatic realities of both are byproducts not necessarily relevant to the point I'm trying to make. Though I would think that a person with MPD could be accommodated as well as a GID patient. Though you're right, it would be disruptive to someone familiar with one personality and startled by a stark change or complete manifestation of a new personality.

That's not quite how it works: you don't get a new personality, you just stop pretending.

The change is not (usually) stark, it takes years. Usually. I'm kind of unusual there, and although psychologically speaking, I'm indistinguishable from the standard TS woman, my endocrinology is ... unusual. One might even say "Freakish", certainly my medical team thinks so.

For details of my unusual situation, see http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2008/05/year-thre... . I blogged it as it happened. The photos on http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2006/05/annus-mir... tell it all really - a change that was unbelievably swift. Natural MtoF changes of any kind are rare, but not unknown. Mine appears to be unique in terms of how quickly it happened.

Another case of natural MtoF change was reported recently, details at http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2008/07/ah-spit.h... . That one is also unique, all other cases have had female gender identities.

Zoe

[realist]

Rikki S wrote:

Can any of you tell me how this person is going to adversely effect the other employees? This will be the same person, just wearing women's clothing. Don't you think that if you fail to practice good personal hygeine or fart in the workplace you will make people uncomfortable?
Stephen: I bet your co-workers would welcome your "fat to skinny" surgery! You will look better and have a much healthier life.
Spotter: How do you identify who is female and who is male? I bet you look at their body appearance, clothing, mannerisms, etc to make that decision. I bet you don't ask them to drop their pants to see what they have under there! If this story didn't identify this person, you probably wouldn't know whether this person was man or woman.

I'd like to agree with you and let this woman choose whatever path she'd wish, but here's the issue; in the real world, the business world, this would be a distarction and a major one at that. Customers that this business deals with would focus on this issue rather then the business at hand (no pun intended). As a small business owner, I don't want anything to interfere with my business, as this most certainly would. This woman feels that she's trapped in the wrong body. OK, but what would I do if my employees started to cross dress (in business attire) when they came into work? Would I have to stand for that as well? Own a business, then come back and tell me your feelings on this. I think they would change...

[Zoe Brain]

realist wrote:

<quoted text>
This woman feels that she's trapped in the wrong body. OK, but what would I do if my employees started to cross dress (in business attire) when they came into work?

Do you think that that is likely? Any more likely than they would all suddenly appear in wheelchairs, claiming diagnoses of "severe hypocondria" and demanding "reasonable accomodation" under the Americans with Disabilities Act?

In this case, it is most definitely *not* a small business. It is the State of Georgia. Under various federal regulations, businesses with under 16 employees *are* allowed to discriminate on the basis of race, creed, colour, or anything else. But not large businesses, which have been arbitrarily defined as those with 16 or more employees. So you need have no fear, unless your organisation is relatively large. Even then, if you can show that hiring a Jew or a Hindu would cause business to be damaged, and that it's not merely because of religious bigotry on your part, then you would be allowed to discriminate, as the people could not perform the job successfully. There is also no requirement to hire a blind person as a school bus driver, etc, the ADA notwithstanding.

In this case, there is no evidence that the plaintiff's ability to do the job is impaired : it is merely because religious beliefs conflict that she's been fired.

[Zoe Brain]

Dissident wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank you....now that's an answer. I will review the links and get back. It is a serious question i ask...and you gave me a serious answer. If I'm wrong...then I have no problem admitting that.

I have no right to tell you what to think. You may find the evidence unconvincing, and reasonable people of goodwill can differ.
You will review the evidence. That's all I can reasonably ask for. If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me, and I'll answer as best I can.
Even if you don't change your mind, at least you will be aware of some of the issues. The situation is complex, and so far outside everyday experience that scepticism is only natural.
There's a lot of sociological snake-oil salesman out there, mainly on the Left, and it would only be natural to assume that this is just one more example.
It's up to us, not to convince you, but to present the evidence so you can come to an informed opinion of your own. Again, feel free to ask questions, via the e-mail on my blog, or in the comments.

[NJBRED]

Rikki S wrote:

<quoted text>
Can you site the source of your hatred? What is the "sickness" you talk about? What do you mean, "put away for good"? By what "morals" do you judge this woman?

What bathroom should he/she use?

[NJBRED]

Dissident wrote:

When someone in their head believes they are someone they are not..like a different personality, we call it schizophrenic and treat it as a mental issue. But when someone in their head believes they are a different gender, we are so paranoid to be labeled with the dreaded stigma of 'homophobe' that we actually validate and play along with this very real mental issue.
Actually, political correctness forces us to play along. In San Francisco, tax payers flip the bill for sex change operations for city workers...sheesh! We have even watched as Oprah tried to introduce the world to the first pregnant man....jeeezus friggin' crist! Please people...you are born a man or woman....there are NO other options, hard as some mentally disabled people may try. You can be gay, straight, bi...whatever, but don't ask me to play along with anyone's mental disorder and validate their gender/race/species/galactical fantasy.
What's next, trans-cultural? Can I become a black person with a series of operations and expect to be treated as such and adopt all the cultural and social differences of a black man?

Michael Jackson became white, so there might be hope for you! I agree with your analogies.

[traveler]

Dissident wrote:

For some reason, the censors don't like the word h-o-m-o-p-h-o-b-e...which has now been deleted twice from my posts.

phobia is a fear of someone or something

why then are people who disagree with gays and lesbians partner preference, called homophobians?
one is not AFRAID of them, just not agreeable to their lifestyle...

[Rikki S]

NJBRED wrote:

<quoted text>
What bathroom should he/she use?

The same one the other women use. Why do you ask?

[Rikki S]

realist wrote:

<quoted text>
I'd like to agree with you and let this woman choose whatever path she'd wish, but here's the issue; in the real world, the business world, this would be a distarction and a major one at that. Customers that this business deals with would focus on this issue rather then the business at hand (no pun intended). As a small business owner, I don't want anything to interfere with my business, as this most certainly would. This woman feels that she's trapped in the wrong body. OK, but what would I do if my employees started to cross dress (in business attire) when they came into work? Would I have to stand for that as well? Own a business, then come back and tell me your feelings on this. I think they would change...

You are making an assumption based on an unfounded fear. I work in a small hospital in a small town where everybody knows everybody. A nurse in the ER transitioned several years ago after having worked there for three years as a man. I remember the talk like yours before she transitioned. One day "he" went home and the next shift "she" came to work. Funny thing is she just came to work like she belonged there and continued to do her job as well as she always had. Her patients see a female there and even talk "girl talk" with her. To the best of my knowledge, I have never heard a single person say that they didn't want her to take care of them. They don't see her as a man. The staff does the same. Despite all the predicted gloom and doom, she didn't even put a ripple in the pond and gets people coming back to the hospital with kudos for her good work and if they return as a patient ask for her by name! Where do all these misconceptions like yours come from?

[Fed up conservative]

When is the world going to stop pandering to these freaks and weirdos.

They need to round them up and ship them to San Francisco and dump them their.

[rick]

Fed up conservative wrote:

When is the world going to stop pandering to these freaks and weirdos.
They need to round them up and ship them to San Francisco and dump them their.

send them to other country

[Rikki S]

Fed up conservative wrote:

When is the world going to stop pandering to these freaks and weirdos.
They need to round them up and ship them to San Francisco and dump them their.

You are sooooooo uninformed! I bet that you have met many who are transgendered and didn't even know it. You sound like remnants from the KKK!