Two NMMI cadets suspended for hazing

Two NMMI cadets suspended for hazing

There are 39 comments on the Carlsbad Current-Argus story from Apr 24, 2008, titled Two NMMI cadets suspended for hazing. In it, Carlsbad Current-Argus reports that:

The New Mexico Military Institute has suspended two cadets for hazing first-year students in a ritual dubbed ''blood bars.'' NMMI public information officer Carl Hansen says the school will not reveal the ...

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Since: Feb 08

Grand Junction, CO

#21 May 6, 2008
Welcome to the age in which NMMI no longer instills pride and a sense of accomplishment, but rather enforces dehumanizing obedience while robbing cadets of their budding masculinity under the guise of 'protecting' them. I received 'blood wings' in US Army Airborne School, and 'blood bars' at NMMI. Instead of an injury, I got two puncture holes in a chest brinning with pride at the accomplishments. This is a volunteer situation. Do you think the individuals lining up for recognition in this warriors' ritual are somehow compelled to do so? Wrong. Taking away these benchmarks of individual recognition, while insisting that the Cadets all go through the numbing routine of obedient soldiers doesn't produce soldiers, warriors, or proud cadets. It produces spiritless lemmings. Blood Bars don't produce punctured lungs, taking them away punctures espirit de corps.
Military Veteran

Carlsbad, NM

#22 May 7, 2008
Keep your head up cadets, some people place rules in place to maintain order and public safety, and to some dismay they are broken.
"Blood bars" are given to a majority of soldiers in the regular Armed Forces for promotion to the next rank, they do hurt, its all for the fun of being a soldier.

Keep the spirit soldiers!
Cadet

Santa Rosa, NM

#23 May 7, 2008
There aren't a whole lot of restaurants to chose from in Roswell, and I happen to know that as a base of pay, Applebee's pays a lot better than what you claimed. Nothing you really say makes any sense. Particularly when you say that I am being rude and YOU are being perfectly civil.
You may be able to speak the language, but you haven't even begun to be able to express yourself in writing. I do in fact speak more than one language, and yes, English is my first. That is why I post in English forums and write poetry and essays in English. I'm a published author, Jessy, and I'm only 18, so I don't see why exactly you are trying to comment on my use of my own language.

But hey, I guess I'm just some "little **** " right? I've had an idea! You should go do a little bit of learning. You know, brush up on the non-verbal abuse terms in my language so that when you come back and write you can sound a little bit smarter! And you can be less rude. Wonderful.

“time to get rid of murderers”

Since: Dec 07

roswell

#24 May 9, 2008
cadet,
i never said i am beeing perfectly civil, the point is that you just dont get the point that i said earlier,
i dont know you, most likely i never ran into you, the point that you fail to miss is that not once did i say it is you comming in and beeing rude, what ticks me off is that you know your buddy's, and you know how much of pricks they can be, so why defend them from everything. i never sayd YOU came in to those restaurants and left messes with no tip. i also did not say YOUR pparents stayed in a hotel i previously worked at and where rude. again i dont know you i dont know how you act, but the point is that not all your buddys are like you. even if you are an angel. one of you does not make up for the ten pricks beeing rude. i am glad to see that ONE of you has some common sence, and as it seems manors. but ONE does not make up for the rest.

“time to get rid of murderers”

Since: Dec 07

roswell

#25 May 9, 2008
cadet
you might also want to realize that because english is your first language, you have a little more of an advantage in spelling than i do.
and since you love to complain about my spelling i would like to know one thing.
why cant you respect the fact that i came to this country and learned how to communicate in english. yes my spelling is horrible, but hey i speak english, i am not like the illegalls that cross the border, and i am not like half the hispanic or mexican population, i learned the language and did not expect everybody to leanr mine.
i have known my neighbor for the whole time i live here, i speak english, she cant. so if youd like ill give you the adress and you can go complain to her, and all the others who are TO LAZY to learn this language!
sal

Clovis, NM

#26 May 10, 2008
First of all parents pay quite alot of money for this kids to attend NMMI to become officers not
executors. Anyone who enlist in any branch of the military goes to learn hoew to defend our counrty.
Not play their little silly games.Anytime you hurt another person that is assault...

Since: Feb 08

Grand Junction, CO

#27 May 11, 2008
Sal, how do you think military officers defend our country? They lead assaults on our enemies. An NMMI ROTC instructor, who was a Captain in the US Army at the time, told us that military officers were, among other things, professional organizers and managers of lethal violence. As a Vietnam veteran, I think he had an informed opinion. Fighting a war isn't an academic exercise. It's an exercise of one's physical determination coupled with personal discipline, character, luck, and intellectual capacity. Sometimes it's the personal inflicting of injury and death. Unit bonding rituals like blood wings cement soldiers together through collective rites of passage, and have been conducted since before the first spear ever pierced an enemy's chest, in order to build better fighting machines. To a civilian it may seem like a 'silly little game', but human warfare psychology runs according to rules well known to successful military commanders. Training for war isn't like what you expect in Boy Scout camp, or in the classroom. Some of my NMMI classmates have fought and died since graduation, and that wasn't a 'silly little game' either.
I think

Carlsbad, NM

#28 May 12, 2008
I think that what everryone is forgetting is that it does not matter if it is a private school, public school, military school, or religious school there is some kind of hazing going on. The reason that this one is a big deal is because the kids got caught.
It was going on before I went to school, during the time i went to school and will continue to go on. It is a right of passage if youw ant to be part of specific group.
Football players do it to new members, cheerleaders do it to new members it happens. To freak out and demand that it stop is as bad as demanding the wind to stop blowing. Is it right no is it going to stop ummmmm NO. I went through it, my kids unfortunatly went through it, i threw a fit, it made it worse for my kids.
John Bennett

Corona, CA

#29 May 25, 2008
Obviously from reading some of this text, they don't teach english at NMMI anymore. I'm class of '62
Critical Thinker

Carlsbad, NM

#30 May 25, 2008
NMMI is a private institution. This means each student, and their parents were required to pay and/or the student apply and receive scholarship money to attend. This is, no doubt, a lengthy process and no student is there by accident. Anywhere during that process, the student or parents could have withdrawan their application. Everyone there is presumed to be interested in the military sciences and thusly a possible career officer in the military. Given all these elements of the situation, it would also be presumed that these young men and women were serious about and are interested in learning the mental and physical fortitude to serve in the armed forces. From the get go this is a voluntary process, just like enlisting and serving without going through military school. If you know that you are going to be subject to the traditions and rituals of any institution before going, and you know that you may have to endure phsyical , mental and emotional stresses or injury to carry on with the plan, and this doesn't "sit well" with you, THEN DON'T GO! We are free to do that in this country...a freedom won by persons who went through a few painful moments to win it. If it is true that cadets who did not "make it as yearlings" caused those who did to be kicked out...it should have been those not making it that were kicked out because I certainly don't want them defending me in future years! My son will be attending in a few years and we have discussed this at length...he understands that if his ability to endure and work as a team starts with a couple of bleeding pin holes in his chest, then this is how it must be. As his dad in Iraq would tell him "charlie mike!"
Cadet MB from Roswell

Santa Rosa, NM

#31 Oct 4, 2008
Cadet wrote:
The students that received the blood-bars did so on a completely voluntary basis. No one forces anyone to receive the blood bars because that would in fact be hazing and no one here wants to get kicked out for something so stupid, but blood bars are a long standing tradition and right of passage at NMMI. Two tiny holes poked in your chest can hardly result in death...that is a ridiculous statement. NMMI just can't figure out the difference between hazing and tradition, and yes there is a difference.
By the way, the two cadets who were kicked out had near perfect records while several cadets remain who have upwards of 500 demerits and over 200 tours (My roommate was kicked out as a result of having 120 demerits). There is no standard here as far as punishment goes. Despite its problems, however, I would recommend NMMI for any high school or college male, but never a female. Please, don't put your daughters here for their sake...women become something unrecognizable from what they were outside NMMI after a few months, and almost always in the worst way.
In response to my fellow cadet...
I do agree with his statement regarding the difference between hazing and tradition. In last years case, that borderline between the two was breeched.
The two cadets that were kicked out for the "blood bar" incident, were anything but horrible, troubled, delinquents. The cadets were two high ranking and brilliant not only in their studies but in the Corps as leaders.{Just to clear the airwaves} I do see the previous posts points pertaining to the physical harm in this matter. A "blood bar" or yearling bar is just as deadly as stepping on a tack. Does it hurt when someone pushes it into your chest?-Yes, no doubt. Look at it from this angle...A yearling cadet asks his senior cadet officer and or enlisted cadet to "give him blood bars". In asking this, the cadet has obviously picked these two cadets to do this action because they view them as great leaders and wanted these two men to give them "blood bars". "Blood bars" stand as a reminder {minimal scar - two puncture marks from the tacking} and a memory to the new yearling cadets to be stalward leaders and positive examples. This "blood bar" incindent was never a matter of vulgar hazing, but more as a symbolic tradition. Do I believe in physical hazing? No. Do NMMI cadets believe in physical hazing? No. Does hazing take place on a regular bases? No. Hazing is not apart of our daily or even NMMI life. I along with my RAT class of last year; we were not hazed. To me, a simple letter of encouragement from that leader I looked up to, or a picture with that person would have sufficed as rememberance. However, to others this might not have fit the bill in terms of rememberance and tradition, especially to the male cadets. We realize the difference between hazing and tradition. Tradition does not have to involve physicality. period.
I personally believe that the "blood bar" incident was taken out of context by the media and others involved. I also believe that the two cadets giving the "blood bars" should have had their thinking caps on so-to-speak.
At NMMI I teach my RATs that life is about choices- Which one are you going to make? The wrong choice or the right choice? In this case these two cadets made the wrong choice and were made examples of.
This school is not a place where hazing is an issue. Realize that 4 cadets out of a 1,000 man school created the "hazing problem".
NMMI is not perfect. But what is perfect in this life? NMMI is a place where you can learn early on how to deal with problems big and small. This certainly was a huge problem and it was dealt with by the Administration and the Corps of Cadets.
retired

Carlsbad, NM

#32 Oct 4, 2008
cadet has rendered jessy much less than relevant.

good work cadet.
5yr NMMI cadet

Santa Rosa, NM

#33 Oct 14, 2008
I'm going to weigh my opinion in on this, even though it's way after it happened.

First off, "blood bars" have not "technically" been an accepted practice at NMMI BY THE STAFF AND FACULTY. The Commandant's staff and the NMMI Blue Book have always spoken against such acts of hazing.

The Corps of Cadets itself, however, is a completely different matter. Ever since I was at the school in 2004 Blood Bars, Zoom Brooms, Saber Swats, etc were all accepted practices. However, there was an understanding among the cadets. Acts of hazing were voluntary on both the giving and recieving end. My RAT year my Troop Commander asked if I wanted to receive a "Saber Swat" and I said "no." That was the end of the conversation, there was no retribution against me for the choice, it was not even mentioned again.

On the flip side, while hazing is voluntary there is an understood risk of getting caught. I am not a model cadet, but those who know me know that I'm willing to accept punishment for my wrongdoings. Honestly I feel the two cadets deserved to be suspended simply because that's the punishment that the Blue Book called for. They should have accepted the risk that it could've happened when they committed the act.

On a final note, neither of the cadets had anything near a spotless record. I will not go into details but suffice it to say that I personally knew both cadets and if you had to put it to words you could say these hazing incidents were more of a "last straw" than anything.
Robert

Santa Rosa, NM

#34 Sep 21, 2009
Hey, I am at NMMI right now and I hate but I love it at the same time ALPHA DOGS.
alice

United States

#35 Oct 3, 2009
I date 3 cadets at NMMI and I hear that General grizzle is a decent guy. NMMI has had years of bad leadership so maybe we gave the right guy now?
Frisky Smith

Hobbs, NM

#36 Oct 3, 2009
alice wrote:
I date 3 cadets at NMMI and I hear that General grizzle is a decent guy. NMMI has had years of bad leadership so maybe we gave the right guy now?
You just convinced me not to send my daughter there.
David Torro

United States

#37 Nov 5, 2009
Cadet wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, they didn't get beat. Second of all, the kids who got the blood-bars didn't turn the other two in. It was someone else who didn't turn from new cadet to yearling who turned them in. Jessy, I'm curious, where does your information come from? It seems to me that nothing you've said thus far has come from any source but your own mind, and that, quite frankly, frightens me as you claim to have a law degree. What are they teaching in law schools these days?
Hey do they still do the "Zoom Broom" at NMMI? I had it done to me when I was there.
Get educated

Santa Rosa, NM

#38 Feb 2, 2012
jessy from roswell wrote:
<quoted text>
and that makes it ok????
you are not to bright are you, basically if i walk town main street and do it it's ok too right?
Well if you ever get into something that actually matters you would realize that we want to do it, it's something to be proud of later because you made it through your RAT year, which is really hard, especially when you're a 14 year old kid. Basically, it's a symbol that you've done something most people can't do.
Jay Bea

Biloxi, MS

#39 Nov 2, 2012
I sent my daughter to NMMI. I expected strong leadership from the TLAs and the Senior Staff especially the Commandant and President of the school. What I got was sexual harassment, cover ups and bulling by the leadership. We experienced "Slap **** Friday".
When I brought this to the Staff attention the TLA told the Cadre she was the reason there were problems and the retaliation against her began. The Girls are put on the top floor to keep boys out, although that never really worked. The bouys on the first floor open their room doors buck naked.
Two months before school ended the School told me to remove my daughter for her own benefit. Young men grabbed her butt while she was serving food at a meal as a requirement. It was now her fault because she mentioned to the Senior Cadet as she was instructed to do. This doesn't just happen to the girls. The Cadre hazz weak incoming boys. One specific way is by having the young man bend over a desk in their room while the Cadre slams a riffle between their legs.. only stopping inches because of the desk. The Young man freaks out because he doesn't know the desk will stop the riffle. When a Cadet or parent reaches out for help, the TLAs retaliate against the Cadet making their lives hell. Understand, Pot and Smoking is a staple. So if your son or daughter is a Military type and can fly under the radar then they will most likely be able to handle it. Anyone else wont be so lucky. There are safer Military school options.

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