Vagueness in rules tripped up Weir

Vagueness in rules tripped up Weir

There are 37 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Feb 2, 2008, titled Vagueness in rules tripped up Weir. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

A top international skating official said Friday that imprecise wording of rules has contributed to a controversy over the results of the men's skating competition at last weekend's U.S. Figure Skating ...

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“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#21 Feb 4, 2008
Evelyn wrote:
I read that figure skating is losing audience and consequently losing TV sponsors. I find this trend directly related to the new judging system. The system has destroyed the skaters' abilitiy to convey artistry - to truly interpret the music. They don't have time! As much as I have loved the sport all of my life, I am actually becoming bored watching these "jumping contests". If I see one more lady doing one of those spins or spirals in the "dog at the fire hydrant" position, I may need to find a new sport.
I tend to agree. The artitry has definitely suffered with the new system and too many of the performances look alike.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#22 Feb 4, 2008
JAC wrote:
Evan has become just as "mouthy" or vocal as Johnny. What I see in Evan's eyes when he skates is more in the vein of hate than passion. Johnny's performance was spectacular; he has finally become an athelete as well as an artist. Evan is fantastic but his wild arm movements should not be considered artistic.
Amen to that. I don't think artistic at all when I watch Evan Lysacheck skate.
Mindy Walker

AOL

#23 Feb 5, 2008
Former Champion wrote:
As a former world champion,I feel Johnny Weir was robbed of this US Championship. As someone said earlier, when you start rounding out numbers you get into a lot of problems. I feel the ISU needs to take another look at this scoring procedure.
.......... Hi, as a former world champ why not let us know who you are. Perhaps I rooted for you. No need to hide. 8215
skategirl

Dupont, WA

#24 Feb 5, 2008
There should have been a greater difference in the short program scores. Johnny skated far better than Evan, and would have won the competition. It is a classic case of judges holding up their favorites. Despite the new scoring system, some things never change.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#25 Feb 5, 2008
Iknew Johnny had it to get his championship back and I think he got it. Too bad the judges didn't give it to him on that technicality. But Johnny knows he won and I hope it inspires him to do even better and fight harder to get his championship back.

“... Addicted To Figure Sk8ng ”

Since: Mar 07

Long Island NY

#26 Feb 9, 2008
Sk8r Girl _ wrote:
http://thetripleaxel.blogspot. com/
WANTED ...
THE 6.0
SYSTEM BACK

http://thetripleaxel.blogspot.com/

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#27 Feb 10, 2008
Sk8r Girl _ wrote:
<quoted text>
WANTED ...
THE 6.0
SYSTEM BACK
http://thetripleaxel.blogspot.com/
There's a great idea. Just tweak the 6.0 system to make sure that falls or incompleted jumps or moves carrry a required .? deduction. At the very least it would provide for more freedom for the ice dancers to come up with more artistic routines which wouldn't all look so much alike.

And I like the idea of the judges being responsible for the scores they give instead of being annonymous and unaccountable.
sissy

Shenzhen, China

#28 Feb 11, 2008
feel shame for lysacek's gold medal ..
what a damn US national!

“... Addicted To Figure Sk8ng ”

Since: Mar 07

Long Island NY

#29 Feb 11, 2008
Evelyn wrote:
I read that figure skating is losing audience and consequently losing TV sponsors. I find this trend directly related to the new judging system. The system has destroyed the skaters' abilitiy to convey artistry - to truly interpret the music. They don't have time! As much as I have loved the sport all of my life, I am actually becoming bored watching these "jumping contests". If I see one more lady doing one of those spins or spirals in the "dog at the fire hydrant" position, I may need to find a new sport.
Bring Back the 6.0 System

http://thetripleaxel.blogspot.com

“... Addicted To Figure Sk8ng ”

Since: Mar 07

Long Island NY

#30 Feb 11, 2008
Stefanya wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a great idea. Just tweak the 6.0 system to make sure that falls or incompleted jumps or moves carrry a required .? deduction. At the very least it would provide for more freedom for the ice dancers to come up with more artistic routines which wouldn't all look so much alike.
And I like the idea of the judges being responsible for the scores they give instead of being annonymous and unaccountable.
We don't need a new system; just better judges!

I am glad you read my wiew

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#31 Feb 11, 2008
Sk8r Girl _ wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't need a new system; just better judges!
I am glad you read my wiew
Well maybe if they picked the same 9 judges,identified them and let the rest of them judge along for practice, at least the judges would have to be accountable for the scores they give instead of hiding behind annonymity

If I understand it correctly, does the computer pick a different group of 9 judges out of the 14 for each skater. How is it fair if each skater has different judges?

The computer should pick 9 judges and the same 9 judges need to judge all of the competition on that day. And they need to be identified and asked why they gave the marks they did.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#32 Feb 11, 2008
I'm sorry but in figure skating sometimes the marks are so close and one or two judges can tip the scale as to who wins or not and they should have to account for their marks.

The new juding system has gone too far the other way.
Mindy Walker

AOL

#33 Feb 11, 2008
What is a shame is that Evan is going to Worlds as our best skater. With all that arm flapping, jump landings all shakey, and twisted, painful faces he made, he should have never won. Johnny was fluid and lovely. Elegant. Judges are stupid or they just don't like Johnny Weir.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#34 Feb 11, 2008
Mindy Walker wrote:
What is a shame is that Evan is going to Worlds as our best skater. With all that arm flapping, jump landings all shakey, and twisted, painful faces he made, he should have never won. Johnny was fluid and lovely. Elegant. Judges are stupid or they just don't like Johnny Weir.
It is a shame but what can anyone do. Nothing.
Rachel

Vero Beach, FL

#35 Feb 12, 2008
Stefanya wrote:
<quoted text>
Well maybe if they picked the same 9 judges,identified them and let the rest of them judge along for practice, at least the judges would have to be accountable for the scores they give instead of hiding behind annonymity
If I understand it correctly, does the computer pick a different group of 9 judges out of the 14 for each skater. How is it fair if each skater has different judges?
The computer should pick 9 judges and the same 9 judges need to judge all of the competition on that day. And they need to be identified and asked why they gave the marks they did.
Stefanya - I was trying to read more about the ISU system at http://www.usfigureskating.org/New_Judging.as... .

I was able to find that in U.S. competitions, the judging is not anonymous. The site states:

"Anonymity of Judges Under the International Judging System
U.S. Figure Skating has maintained that the judges' identities would not be anonymous in U.S. Figure Skating events. The judges' names and their scores are linked together."

However, I cannot find any information on whether there is a panel of judges that the computer picks from. I agree with you that if they are only using some of the judges the same ones should be used for each skater.

An earlier comment (not by you) was made to the effect that Johnny's program was not as difficult as Evan's. That's the beauty of Johnny's skating - he makes it look effortless. I don't dislike Evan but this year's program seemed as though every movement was just gearing up for the next jump and his arms were all over the place. His straighline footwork is excellent and so are his spins (great stretch) but the overall program was distracting. Johnny was incredible. His artistry reminds me of Sasha's. They are technically great and beautiful to watch. To me they are what skating is about.

Johnny worked very hard preparing this year and the new discipline and hard work clearly showed. He has every right to be very proud of how he skated because I believe he accomplished his skating goals. Too bad the system, with all its anal rules, is still hindered by the judges' subjectivity.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#36 Feb 12, 2008
Rachel wrote:
<quoted text>
Stefanya - I was trying to read more about the ISU system at http://www.usfigureskating.org/New_Judging.as... .
I was able to find that in U.S. competitions, the judging is not anonymous. The site states:
"Anonymity of Judges Under the International Judging System
U.S. Figure Skating has maintained that the judges' identities would not be anonymous in U.S. Figure Skating events. The judges' names and their scores are linked together."
However, I cannot find any information on whether there is a panel of judges that the computer picks from. I agree with you that if they are only using some of the judges the same ones should be used for each skater.
An earlier comment (not by you) was made to the effect that Johnny's program was not as difficult as Evan's. That's the beauty of Johnny's skating - he makes it look effortless. I don't dislike Evan but this year's program seemed as though every movement was just gearing up for the next jump and his arms were all over the place. His straighline footwork is excellent and so are his spins (great stretch) but the overall program was distracting. Johnny was incredible. His artistry reminds me of Sasha's. They are technically great and beautiful to watch. To me they are what skating is about.
Johnny worked very hard preparing this year and the new discipline and hard work clearly showed. He has every right to be very proud of how he skated because I believe he accomplished his skating goals. Too bad the system, with all its anal rules, is still hindered by the judges' subjectivity.
As usual I am amazed at how quickly you find the information needed. I am pretty certain that when Sasha Cohan was still competing at one of the international events it looked like she had won and she didn't and I'm pretty sure the commentator said something about maybe they drew different judges. I might have heard wrong.
However if they do choose differnt judges for each skater then obviously how can the skaters be judged fairly as all judges might not see it the same way.

Oh well, I hope I am wrong on that.

Johnny was phenominal this year. He pursued his dream and proved that he has the talent and artistry to win and even though he went to Moscow to train with Galina Zmievskaya and Victor Petrenko, it felt right because Johnny is such so appreciative and respectful to his Russian coaches.

He certainly has it to be the champion and is wonderful to watch as well because of his artistry. It is a shame that shenanigans robbed him of his US Title. I hope it makes him train harder and take it in his stride and do even better.

I don't like the rules and since the judges are subjective then I would like to see the judges who are picked sitting there up front with the nation they are from and they all should be the same judges. And they should be openly identified as they have been in the past.

Indeed Johnny did accomplish his goals.

Good to hear from you again.
dee king

Berkeley, CA

#37 Mar 2, 2008
I'm late adding my "two cents", but
since when is "artistry", over-looked ?
Johnny's performance was "complete" &
polished - Evans was helter-skelter,
lots of arms frayling,& jumps that were landed [barely]!!!
He reminds me of "Evgen - the russian
skater, lots of "quads" & arms swinging, to quote "Dick Buttons"
no artistry in between the jumps !!!
I'm really going to go out on this one but why do the judges throw
out the high & low scores ??
Keep it simple - let the skater that has the most "high's" have a higher
numerical score !!

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