Russian river water unexpected culprit behind Arctic freshening, researchers find

Jan 5, 2012 Full story: Science Daily 43

Frigid freshwater flowing into the Arctic Ocean from three of Russia's mighty rivers was diverted hundreds of miles to a completely different part of the ocean in response to a decades-long shift in atmospheric pressure associated with the phenomenon called the Arctic Oscillation, according to findings published in the Jan.

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“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#22 Jan 7, 2012
It must realy piss people like SpaceDummy off when they see people able to post sensibly in their own words, without the need to copy paste information that's not even on topic.
NobodyYouKnow

Toronto, Canada

#23 Jan 7, 2012
SpaceBlues wrote:
Fun Facts and Earthling don't have any science or mathematics background. Whatever they post in this forum is from their denier sources.
Imagine they are trying to discredit scientists or engineers who understand or research AGW. They don't succeed and will never.
The spin and spam on this issue is increadible and buries the real point.

The source of the fresh water is interesting, but not materially changing the facts. The facts are that in paleoclimatology, the advent of an ice free arctic has led to a layer of relatively warm fresh water overlying and isolating a layer of cooler salt water.

That this flow comes from entraining the fresh water from rivers is NOT a surprise. Over tens of thousands of years of ice free conditions, where else would it come from??

Another point many forget (deliberately). The AO is just a description of an effect. It cannot CAUSE anything but is itself just the effect of another cause. Could that cause be AGW? The oscillations are just telling us how warming of the arctic is affecting air flow. That this is causing entrainment of the fresh water flow into the arctic basin just confirms the paleoclimate studies that show a warm fresh water layer stratification during ice free periods.

It brings up the point of another possible future feedback leading to a return to the 'temperate rain forests' of the Eocene period.
http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/38/1/15.ab...
The rise in precipitation from the warm fresh layer can then feed back to the rivers feeding the arctic basin and increase the amount of water flowing to the arctic basin in a feedback loop.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#24 Jan 7, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a graph, take a look at the last 20 years.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGE...
You're still ignoring the key word: contributing.

The rapidly rising temperatures duing the period also contributed to the decline in ice extent, which began before the change in water flow 20 years ago.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#25 Jan 7, 2012
LessFactMoreHype, alias:
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow wrote:
The spin and spam on this issue is increadible
It's not even incredible, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty.
How about expalining your CO2 as a thermal pollutant theory?

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#26 Jan 7, 2012
Or even explaining your CO2 as a thermal pollutant theory?

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#27 Jan 7, 2012
FuGyou wrote:
You're still ignoring the key word: contributing.
Alarmists have always ignored the key word, contributing, basically concentrating on human emitted CO2 alone as the only cause of climate change.
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#28 Jan 7, 2012
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
You're still ignoring the key word: contributing.
The rapidly rising temperatures duing the period also contributed to the decline in ice extent, which began before the change in water flow 20 years ago.
I didn't ignore anything, all climate is a result of contributing factors. I simply pointed out that one contributing factor to the ice 'melt' is the AO.

When the AO is in the negative phase it is weak and does not hold the very cold air of the arctic in the arctic. The very cold air drops, by latitude, and is replaced by the warm air carried by the air currents coming from the equator.

Not only has the arctic ice mass been correlated to the AO, the European glacier ice mass has also been correlated with the AO.

The AO is not alone. It is part of a larger system the MOC which also includes the NAO. These oscillations altho 'related' have various cycles of positive and negative phases. Like a layering effect.

If all three are positive at the same time, you get one result. If two are positive and one negative, you get a different result. And with three variables, you can do the math and see just how many different results are possible with just these three contributing factors.

And that's just the oscillations in one ocean.
NobodyYouKnow

Toronto, Canada

#29 Jan 7, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't ignore anything, all climate is a result of contributing factors. I simply pointed out that one contributing factor to the ice 'melt' is the AO.
The AO is a description of a state of the climate. It is an effect. I cannot 'cause' anything.

Your ignorance of science is just astounding.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#30 Jan 7, 2012
NobodyYouKnow wrote:
<quoted text>
The AO is a description of a state of the climate. It is an effect. I[t] cannot 'cause' anything.
Your ignorance of science is just astounding.
Indeed. Fun Facts is having an integrity crisis ever since I had a firm run for AGW. I posted a recent video made by Dr Cicerone, Climate Change Seen from Space and Earth's Surface:



to meet FF's requirements to show AGW is real.

If FF would just comprehend that material ...
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#31 Jan 7, 2012
NobodyYouKnow wrote:
<quoted text>
The AO is a description of a state of the climate. It is an effect. I cannot 'cause' anything.
Your ignorance of science is just astounding.
I slipped your statement, "The AO is a description of a state of climate" into google and this was the first reference.

http://www.nc-climate.ncsu.edu/climate/patter...

Altho you 'cannot cause anything' the AO and NAO in their various states have an impact on weather.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#32 Jan 7, 2012
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
..
http://www.nc-climate.ncsu.edu/climate/patter...
.. the AO and NAO in their various states have an impact on weather.
From the link:

The Arctic Oscillation often shares phase with the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO)(discussed below), and its phases directly correlate with the phases of the NAO concerning implications on weather across the U.S.

DOES NOT say what you wrote: the AO and NAO in their various states have an impact on weather.

Comprehension is required FIRST.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#33 Jan 7, 2012
SpacedOutDummy wrote:
DOES NOT say what you wrote: the AO and NAO in their various states have an impact on weather.
Comprehension is required FIRST.
You're a completely utter buffoon and evidently proud of it.
litesong

Everett, WA

#34 Jan 7, 2012
piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling wrote:
It must realy(sic) piss people, like SpaceBlue off, when they see.......
....... "piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling" spill his slimy filthy vile pukey proud reprobate rooting racist pig guts on the internet.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#35 Jan 7, 2012
LessFactMoreHype, alias:
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow wrote:
The AO is a description of a state of the climate. It is an effect. I cannot 'cause' anything.
Your ignorance of science is just astounding.
Nothing you write will be taken seriously until you clear up some of your outstanding errors, explaining CO2 as a 'thermal pollutant' will do for a start, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty?
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#36 Jan 7, 2012
Hey, the funder of the stalking denier aka earthling, your poster is a clinically mad man.

Fire the madman! NOW!
litesong

Everett, WA

#37 Jan 7, 2012
fun farts wrote:
.....the AGWs aren't going to like this.
Correction:
This AGW advocate thinks you are despicable, herd with hi skule dropouts & others that have sub-sub-kindergarten comprehensions of their poorly earned & minimal educations. The above facts are probably due to your own sub-standard education, that you chose.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain hideaway, SE Spain

#38 Jan 7, 2012
How did LessFact/Nobody manage to be an expert in so many subjects without learning that forty hasn't been correctly spelled with a U for over 200 years?
Or that epistemologists don't compile dictionaries?
Or that ice sheets can calve massive amounts?
Or that Enercon don't install offshore wind generators, gearless or otherwise?
Or that the equator does have season/seasons?
Or that cars cannot be charged with road collisions?
Or that vikings knew how to live in a warmer Greenland?
Or that New Moore island couldn't have been, "in the MOUTH of the several rivers?"
Or that, "Deforestations [isn't] a consequence of AGW?"
Or that Alberta isn't a country?
Or that, "insects and plants" actually qualify as species?
Or that, "Scientific laws" are actually science?
Or that you aren't really, "bordering on being an intellectual?"
Or that predictions aren't just for astrologers?
Or that ethanol isn't, "a very workable and effective solution?"
Or that America has more than two political parties?
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
And no. Climate and weather are not 'linked' any more than the subject of gambling and a throw of the dice. Different concept levels entirely.
That was a priceless comment as well.
Or that 'fruiting plants' are not especially chosen by bees for, "polination?"
Or that CO2 isn't a, "thermal pollutant?"
Or that 'nondenier' isn't a real word?
Or that you don't score points by comparing AGW to the Holocaust.
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#39 Jan 7, 2012
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>From the link:
The Arctic Oscillation often shares phase with the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO)(discussed below), and its phases directly correlate with the phases of the NAO concerning implications on weather across the U.S.
DOES NOT say what you wrote: the AO and NAO in their various states have an impact on weather.
Comprehension is required FIRST.
Take a look, you can see a variety of positive and negative changes within larger patterns.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/...

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/...
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#40 Jan 7, 2012
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Correction:
This AGW advocate thinks you are despicable,
It may surprise you, but I don't care.
litesong

Everett, WA

#41 Jan 7, 2012
piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling wrote:
AGW advocates have always ignored the key word.......
AGW deniers always ignore the key word,'science' because they very very often don't have advanced science & mathematics degrees, often have 10+ years less math & science than the scientists they criticize, & many times do not have hi skule deegreees.

The most prominent topix AGW denier errors are 10.9 billion TIMES, 4.17 billion TIMES, 2.7 billion TIMES, & 500 million TIMES. gord has an error of 19,400+ times that he won't correct, due to his belief that Venus & Mars have the same AMOUNT of atmospheric carbon dioxide because their PERCENTAGE ratios of CO2 are the same on both planets.

He will NOT correct his error & does NOT understand that he is in error.

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