Hampton unresponsive to flooding issue

Full story: Hampton Roads Daily Press

There has been a lot of talk and speculation about how effective a barrier Factory Point has been.

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gaw

United States

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#1
Feb 27, 2008
 
"One doesn't need a degree in ocean science, engineering or marine biology to see that over the years the steady erosion of Factory Point has led to increased flooding in the Back River basin."

Wow. So that's what's been causing the waters to rise along the outer banks of North Carolina too! Thanks. I didn't realize that.

Your statement speaks volumes for the contrary. If you had a degree in any of these you would probably not jump to conclusions like this.

I don't think anyone is disputing the effects. The dispute is the cause. Many factors have come together to create this problem. I not convinced that the breach there is the big culprit or even a significant contributor. Of course I'm just an armchair specialist like you so what do I know?
Surry with a fringe

Falls Church, VA

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#2
Feb 27, 2008
 
Tides are rising, period. That's bad news for all of us on the coast and creek areas. We're already flood prone and we'll get wetter over the next 10-20 years. Silt is flowing into the creeks like never before, our land masses are sinking. It will be many years before it's out of control but we're at the mercy of mother nature on this one. Fixing the breach will be like pouring sand into Sandbridge. Good money after bad. Why doesn't the city get the feds to come in and assess it, see if there is money out there somewhere? While they're at it, they can help me build a retaining wall to keep the water out of my house this year too.
Come on Maurice

Hampton, VA

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#3
Feb 27, 2008
 
"One doesn't need a degree in ocean science, engineering or marine biology to see that over the years the steady erosion of Factory Point has led to increased flooding in the Back River basin."

Actually Maurice...thats where you're wrong! If more of the acclaimed "Citizen's Committee" had such degrees maybe more BENEFICIAL recommendations would have come out of the committee. Gaw hit the nail on the head....the effects are not in dispute...its the causes that are. Did the "Citizen's Committee" provide any verifiable scientific evidence that the "breach" is the sole cause for increased flooding in the Back River...the answer is NO regardless of how much you want it to be true (John Boone's modeling doesn't count as "verfiable scientific evidence"). Factory Point has never been a wall of sand protecting the river from increased flooding, its only been a speedbump. Even with millions of dollars poured into its "restoration" it will still on serve as a speedbump. Did the committee take a look at increases in impervious surfaces in Hampton? If so, how much have they increased in the last 30 years? How has this contributed to increased flooding??
2 Funny

Hampton, VA

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#4
Feb 27, 2008
 
gaw wrote:
"One doesn't need a degree in ocean science, engineering or marine biology to see that over the years the steady erosion of Factory Point has led to increased flooding in the Back River basin."
Wow. So that's what's been causing the waters to rise along the outer banks of North Carolina too! Thanks. I didn't realize that.
Your statement speaks volumes for the contrary. If you had a degree in any of these you would probably not jump to conclusions like this.
I don't think anyone is disputing the effects. The dispute is the cause. Many factors have come together to create this problem. I not convinced that the breach there is the big culprit or even a significant contributor. Of course I'm just an armchair specialist like you so what do I know?
There are engineers on that committee and they have used the Army Corps own documents come to these conclusions. The Army Corps has thousands of pages of information about the importance of protecting barrier islands and wetlands because of the job they do to prevent flooding. What I have a hard time understanding is why the Corp spends millions of dollars in other areas of the US constructing aritficial barriers and maintaing other natural barriers but suddenly this one in Hampton doesn't fall under the same category as every other barrier island up and down the east coast.

What the citizens are asking for is equal protection. The citizens along the Back River are entitled to the same resources that have been expended in Ocean View, North Carolina and New Orleans. Nothing more nothing less. Now if the Army Corps is suddenly changing its tune on the importance of our barrier islands and flood mitigation they need to stop what they are doing in other areas. Equal protection, equal treatment, equal allocation of resources, that's all they are asking for.

The state and the feds have jurisdiction over wetlands and for some reason when it comes to Hampton they just turn a blind eye. What I find interesting is they'll fine a guy in Gloucester $200,000 for building a fence through a wetland but they do nothing while a developer in Hampton goes in and clear cuts wetlands and hauls in trucks full of stone and fill. Why the blind eye when it comes to violations in Hampton?
Come on Maurice

Hampton, VA

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#5
Feb 27, 2008
 
2 Funny wrote:
<quoted text>
The state and the feds have jurisdiction over wetlands and for some reason when it comes to Hampton they just turn a blind eye. What I find interesting is they'll fine a guy in Gloucester $200,000 for building a fence through a wetland but they do nothing while a developer in Hampton goes in and clear cuts wetlands and hauls in trucks full of stone and fill. Why the blind eye when it comes to violations in Hampton?
Ah, your forgetting an important entity...the Hampton Wetlands Board....where have they been????
AJB

United States

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#6
Feb 27, 2008
 
Remediate your own property or move.
Fairness

Virginia Beach, VA

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#7
Feb 27, 2008
 
2 Funny wrote:
<quoted text>
There are engineers on that committee and they have used the Army Corps own documents come to these conclusions. The Army Corps has thousands of pages of information about the importance of protecting barrier islands and wetlands because of the job they do to prevent flooding. What I have a hard time understanding is why the Corp spends millions of dollars in other areas of the US constructing aritficial barriers and maintaing other natural barriers but suddenly this one in Hampton doesn't fall under the same category as every other barrier island up and down the east coast.
What the citizens are asking for is equal protection. The citizens along the Back River are entitled to the same resources that have been expended in Ocean View, North Carolina and New Orleans. Nothing more nothing less. Now if the Army Corps is suddenly changing its tune on the importance of our barrier islands and flood mitigation they need to stop what they are doing in other areas. Equal protection, equal treatment, equal allocation of resources, that's all they are asking for.
The state and the feds have jurisdiction over wetlands and for some reason when it comes to Hampton they just turn a blind eye. What I find interesting is they'll fine a guy in Gloucester $200,000 for building a fence through a wetland but they do nothing while a developer in Hampton goes in and clear cuts wetlands and hauls in trucks full of stone and fill. Why the blind eye when it comes to violations in Hampton?
There's a helluva difference between a barrier island and that little bitty spit.

“I don't sing "Daisy" anymore!”

Since: Jan 08

Hampton, VA

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#8
Feb 27, 2008
 
Water levels fluctuate, and Hampton, being roughly 10ft above sea level (excluding the landfill) isn't immune to the fickle effects of mother nature. A small spit of sand isn't going to stop flooding in low lying areas, but it's possible it may reduce surges. Water has this annoying tendency to go above/around/under/through structures, and if you bought a home near the shore, you gambled that nature wold be kind to you. I'm also sure your flood insurance premium is a stinging reminder of the potential for flooding. What ever the city decides to do regarding factory point, I sincerely hope a decision is made without the emotional hype usually associated with these type issues that tend to polarize a community.
Richard Harris

Columbus, OH

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#9
Feb 27, 2008
 
The problem is that the spit can be washed away on an annual basis and is a waste of taxpayers money. If you live on the water in a low lying area, you lose. The rest of the taxpayers who are denied water access should not have to pay for your personal property enjoyment. Sell and move.
2 Funny

Hampton, VA

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#10
Feb 27, 2008
 
Fairness wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a helluva difference between a barrier island and that little bitty spit.
That little bitty spit used to be a mile long.
2 Funny

Hampton, VA

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#11
Feb 27, 2008
 
Richard Harris wrote:
The problem is that the spit can be washed away on an annual basis and is a waste of taxpayers money. If you live on the water in a low lying area, you lose. The rest of the taxpayers who are denied water access should not have to pay for your personal property enjoyment. Sell and move.
Interesting that the spit is shown on every map from the 1600's right up to today. Yeah, what do we care about protecting a 400 year old (to our knowlege) natural resource. Using that logic why did Norfolk get millions of dollars for breakers and flood protection in Ocean View?
Come on Maurice

Gloucester, VA

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#12
Feb 27, 2008
 
2 Funny wrote:
<quoted text>
That little bitty spit used to be a mile long.
And even in its prime served only as a speedbump. Compare flooding levels during the big storm of 1933 and Isabel and you'll quickly learn that Factory Point didn't really do much once you factor in other contributing issues.
Fairness

Virginia Beach, VA

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#13
Feb 28, 2008
 
2 Funny wrote:
<quoted text>
That little bitty spit used to be a mile long.
and 10-20 yards wide...
Fairness

Virginia Beach, VA

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#14
Feb 28, 2008
 
2 Funny wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting that the spit is shown on every map from the 1600's right up to today. Yeah, what do we care about protecting a 400 year old (to our knowlege) natural resource. Using that logic why did Norfolk get millions of dollars for breakers and flood protection in Ocean View?
And Willoughby Spit was created by a storm in 1806, by your logic we should remove it...
Bubbalee

Virginia Beach, VA

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#15
Feb 28, 2008
 
What's amazing and embarassing to me is that a small country like the Netherlands can create 3/4s of their country out of the sea, control flooding etc, and this "most powerful country in the world" can't engineer projects to protect property, lives, or economic infrastructure in places like New Orleans or Hampton. I'm embarassed because Americans like Teddy Roosevelt and the people/engineers who built projects like the Panama Canal are turning in their graves.
2 Funny

Hampton, VA

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#16
Feb 28, 2008
 
Fairness wrote:
<quoted text>
And Willoughby Spit was created by a storm in 1806, by your logic we should remove it...
No, but by your logic it never should have received any modification or protection by the Army Corps because nature's gonna do what nature's gonna do. And using that logic New Orleans should have been abandoned because let's face it, those people deserve to be flooded because they chose to live in a city below sea level. Why waste the money? It's just going to flood again.

If you are going to apply the "do nothing" argument to factory point then you are going to have to apply it across the board. In fact, let's save a ton of money and get rid of the Army Corp of Engineers all together! You can't tell me that the people of Ocean View somehow have more rights to proptery protection than the people along the Back River and in Poquoson. We all deserve equal treatment under the law and equal protection by our government agencies that regulate wetlands and protection of the barrier island systems.
2 Funny

Hampton, VA

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#17
Feb 28, 2008
 
Bubbalee wrote:
What's amazing and embarassing to me is that a small country like the Netherlands can create 3/4s of their country out of the sea, control flooding etc, and this "most powerful country in the world" can't engineer projects to protect property, lives, or economic infrastructure in places like New Orleans or Hampton. I'm embarassed because Americans like Teddy Roosevelt and the people/engineers who built projects like the Panama Canal are turning in their graves.
EXACTLY!
Fairness

Virginia Beach, VA

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#18
Feb 28, 2008
 

Judged:

1

2 Funny wrote:
<quoted text>
No, but by your logic it never should have received any modification or protection by the Army Corps because nature's gonna do what nature's gonna do. And using that logic New Orleans should have been abandoned because let's face it, those people deserve to be flooded because they chose to live in a city below sea level. Why waste the money? It's just going to flood again.
If you are going to apply the "do nothing" argument to factory point then you are going to have to apply it across the board. In fact, let's save a ton of money and get rid of the Army Corp of Engineers all together! You can't tell me that the people of Ocean View somehow have more rights to proptery protection than the people along the Back River and in Poquoson. We all deserve equal treatment under the law and equal protection by our government agencies that regulate wetlands and protection of the barrier island systems.
Hey, I'm all for making New Orleans a National Landfill, that will kill two birds with one stone!!! Solve most of the nations landfill problems while bringing N.O. above sea level!!!
Gary

Lund, Sweden

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#19
Feb 1, 2012
 
Silt is flowing into the creeks like never before, our land masses are sinking. It will be many years before it's out of control but we're at the mercy of mother nature on this one. Fixing the breach will be like pouring sand into Sandbridge.

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