Science, religion and the problem of evil

[Saif]

Stewie wrote:

Ok, I hope I'm right in thinking that I'm not the only fat person in the world who gets shouted nasty things at in the street by complete strangers.
But my question is, why? I mean, what does my fatness do to you? I'm not shoving a Big Mac down your throat so why do you feel the need to be nasty?
I'm not saying people on here do it (aside from the person who commented on an earlier thread saying "Atleast you're not fat")
But for example, a few weeks ago I was out shopping with my slim, pretty friend and I was just looking for a drink when these random kids started singing the "Fatty Bum Bum" song at me. Ok, I know it may sound humorous, but it was so hurtful. All I could do was pretend like hell that I didn't hear them and I could tell my friend was thinking "I hope she didn't hear that"
Also, whenever I'm out with my friends, particularly the friend mentioned above, I see all the guys heads turn to look at them, and I'm just the fat friend who's trying too hard to be something I'm not
And now I'm sounding like a stupid cow talking about my own self-pity.
But back to the point, why do people do this?! It's not like I snigger about random people in the street for being short or tall or too thin or something.
Do people seriously not see that what they say affects others?

Hrm.... considering the topic of this thread is Science, Religion, and the Problem of Evil, we may need to look at it like this:

Science has found out that there are many reasons why people get fat. The foremost among them is that they eat too much.

Religion states that gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins (in fact for once they are right, being too fat will most likely cause an early death for you).

The people that pick on you by saying things like "Stewie, Stewie two by four, can't fit through the kitchen door," are carrying out evil because they are damaging you, another human being's feelings.

Just because you are fat enough to have your own zip code doesn't mean that you don't have feelings, right?

Now back to a more on-topic Topix.

[LWsciencejunkie]

Stewie wrote:

Do people seriously not see that what they say affects others?

Stewie, I noticed that you posted your pain on another thread. The answer to your question is the same answer given to anyone who is bullied for any reason randomly by strangers; those punks wanted to feel powerful and "bad-ass". You were the anonymous means to a cheap, consequence-free "fix". People like you, me, and others who might get our "fix" from helping others, random acts of kindness, earning a degree, a day's work well done, a moment of beauty, an expression of love...need to understand that there are people for whom those things are absolutely without meaning. They are nothing, they will be nothing. They are empty. They need one cheap fix to follow another in order to feel alive and to keep their emptiness at bay from one moment to the next. These are the ones who get addicted to video games, drugs, take stupid risks for thrills, can't form meaningful relationships, and get bored with almost everything but the next harsh "fix". Sometimes youngsters grow out of this, or are posturing with others in the age-old pursuit being as bad-ass as the next dumb kid. They feel embarrassed about it when they are older. If you can't blow it off (even better, waggle your butt and make a big show of not giving a $hit) for heaven's sake CONSIDER THE SOURCE.
Go to: http://dailystrength.org/c/Obesity/support-gr...
You will not regret it, I promise.

[my left foot]

Valen wrote:

Go see the movie "Expelled" as it will make you think about the possibilities.
http://www.expelledthemovie.com/
Ben Stein interviewing the "Atheists" guy is worth the price.
Where did life come from?
Why are we here?
What do you want?
Who are you?

You folks are funny . You believe that if scientists don't have all of the answers (presto) like magic then we'll attribute the answers to a god that we made up. Science is making strides every day and using the Theory of Evolution as a basis . We don't attribute our work to majik or hocus pocus . There are no ghosts involved in our experiments and no spirits guiding our hands. In the last 50 years we have Identified the substance that makes up all of life (dna/rna) and are in the process of naming and quantifying all of the (genes) life possesses . We now are able to follow those processes and work toward curing all of the imperfections the gods were unable to cure . It will take time but we will be patient and strive to make a much better , healthier and vibrant life for our offspring . We will search for our mythical heaven right here on earth where our children can live virtually disease free to 150 and beyond..

[A Still Small Voice]

my left foot wrote:

<quoted text>You folks are funny . You believe that if scientists don't have all of the answers (presto) like magic then we'll attribute the answers to a god that we made up. Science is making strides every day and using the Theory of Evolution as a basis . We don't attribute our work to majik or hocus pocus . There are no ghosts involved in our experiments and no spirits guiding our hands. In the last 50 years we have Identified the substance that makes up all of life (dna/rna) and are in the process of naming and quantifying all of the (genes) life possesses . We now are able to follow those processes and work toward curing all of the imperfections the gods were unable to cure . It will take time but we will be patient and strive to make a much better , healthier and vibrant life for our offspring . We will search for our mythical heaven right here on earth where our children can live virtually disease free to 150 and beyond..

...and you are arrogant control freak! You think you can play G-d? You think you can make the world in YOUR image? You think you're a master of Life? I'll bet you're not even a master of your OWN life! How many drugs do you need to take each day? Can you function without your morning coffee? How 'bout those pills for the cholesterol or the blood pressure? Never had a chemical dependency? Be honest now! Pot? Booze? Tobacco? How 'bout porn? How many hours do you spend at night compulsively surfing the porno sites? How's your social or love life? Many guys can't talk to a girl without a drink in their hand, and then once they get her home, can't get it up without a little pill! Maybe you've had that experience, hmm? Yeah you're really in control! How 'bout your marriage, IF you've ever been married? The more full of yourself you are, the harder it is to compromise with another, and you sound really full of yourself! You're so impressed with technology, but most of the new processes and discoveries that have shaped the last century were not only the result of "accidents"(What I'd call Devine Intervention), like penicilin, but like teflon, were actively ignored by the scientific and industrial establishment. Edward Jenner's idea for a smallpox vaccine was inspired by peasant folk medicine, and was ridiculed by his mentors. The modern science of genetics was developed by a Catholic priest. The internal combustion engine was STOLEN by Ford from an Orthodox Jewish dry cleaner in Germany, and a court ordered him to pay the man a huge sum (I'm not sure if he ever did). What new invention or scientific discovery did Isaac Asimov or Carl Segan ever make? A bunch of airheaded dweebs! How have Darwin's teachings made people's lives better? One last thing. 2500 years ago, The Bible said, "The life of Man is three score and ten." That's 70 years. As I recall, the life expectancy of an American male is currently about 72 years. If you're waiting for modern medicine to double the human life span, you'll have to wait a lot longer than you think!

[Nettiebelle]

A Still Small Voice wrote:

<quoted text>
...and you are arrogant control freak! You think you can play G-d? You think you can make the world in YOUR image? You think you're a master of Life? I'll bet you're not even a master of your OWN life! How many drugs do you need to take each day? Can you function without your morning coffee? How 'bout those pills for the cholesterol or the blood pressure? Never had a chemical dependency? Be honest now! Pot? Booze? Tobacco? How 'bout porn? How many hours do you spend at night compulsively surfing the porno sites? How's your social or love life? Many guys can't talk to a girl without a drink in their hand, and then once they get her home, can't get it up without a little pill! Maybe you've had that experience, hmm? Yeah you're really in control! How 'bout your marriage, IF you've ever been married? The more full of yourself you are, the harder it is to compromise with another, and you sound really full of yourself! You're so impressed with technology, but most of the new processes and discoveries that have shaped the last century were not only the result of "accidents"(What I'd call Devine Intervention), like penicilin, but like teflon, were actively ignored by the scientific and industrial establishment. Edward Jenner's idea for a smallpox vaccine was inspired by peasant folk medicine, and was ridiculed by his mentors. The modern science of genetics was developed by a Catholic priest. The internal combustion engine was STOLEN by Ford from an Orthodox Jewish dry cleaner in Germany, and a court ordered him to pay the man a huge sum (I'm not sure if he ever did). What new invention or scientific discovery did Isaac Asimov or Carl Segan ever make? A bunch of airheaded dweebs! How have Darwin's teachings made people's lives better? One last thing. 2500 years ago, The Bible said, "The life of Man is three score and ten." That's 70 years. As I recall, the life expectancy of an American male is currently about 72 years. If you're waiting for modern medicine to double the human life span, you'll have to wait a lot longer than you think!

my left foot's comment made a lot of sense to me. as for all your vile, snide comments laced throughout your reply, sounds as though you are projecting. I believe in divine intervention as well, but I know how to spell it (I usually don't bother with spelling corrections, but divine intervention is important to me).

[Lunatic]

Actually, life expectancy for most of the human race for most of history was about 20-25 years, and maybe up to 30 years during the peak of the Roman Empire, mostly because infant mortality was over 50%. It wasn't until the Industrial Revolution that life expectancy trebled until it's over 80 years in some European countries. Guys like Robert Koch and Louis Pasteur did more to extend life expectancy than decamillenia of prayers and magic...

[redneck]

A Still Small Voice wrote:

<quoted text>
...and you are arrogant control freak! You think you can play G-d? You think you can make the world in YOUR image? You think you're a master of Life? I'll bet you're not even a master of your OWN life! How many drugs do you need to take each day? Can you function without your morning coffee? How 'bout those pills for the cholesterol or the blood pressure? Never had a chemical dependency? Be honest now! Pot? Booze? Tobacco? How 'bout porn? How many hours do you spend at night compulsively surfing the porno sites? How's your social or love life? Many guys can't talk to a girl without a drink in their hand, and then once they get her home, can't get it up without a little pill! Maybe you've had that experience, hmm? Yeah you're really in control! How 'bout your marriage, IF you've ever been married? The more full of yourself you are, the harder it is to compromise with another, and you sound really full of yourself! You're so impressed with technology, but most of the new processes and discoveries that have shaped the last century were not only the result of "accidents"(What I'd call Devine Intervention), like penicilin, but like teflon, were actively ignored by the scientific and industrial establishment. Edward Jenner's idea for a smallpox vaccine was inspired by peasant folk medicine, and was ridiculed by his mentors. The modern science of genetics was developed by a Catholic priest. The internal combustion engine was STOLEN by Ford from an Orthodox Jewish dry cleaner in Germany, and a court ordered him to pay the man a huge sum (I'm not sure if he ever did). What new invention or scientific discovery did Isaac Asimov or Carl Segan ever make? A bunch of airheaded dweebs! How have Darwin's teachings made people's lives better? One last thing. 2500 years ago, The Bible said, "The life of Man is three score and ten." That's 70 years. As I recall, the life expectancy of an American male is currently about 72 years. If you're waiting for modern medicine to double the human life span, you'll have to wait a lot longer than you think!

Please seek help. Go straight to the hospital . good luck

[Your conscience]

Science provides us with no option but the fact that 911 was an inside job."UA 175" broke Newton's laws and therefore was an animation.Application of aerodynamic and other engineering principles indicate the speed of 546 mph claimed for "UA 175" is impossible at an altitude of 1000 ft.

[Inquiring Mind]

my left foot wrote:

<quoted text>Evolution is not concerned with the origins of being or the origins of the universe .

Evolution is concerned only with how we've evolved since it all came about and because of it we are starting to flourish in the study.

How convenient.

[Tom]

JEANNIE wrote:

There was nothing. Then there was a Big Bang and a universe came into being, complete with everything needed for everything that is. Where did the empty space come from, into which the universe is expanding?
Explain.

You are right that it was "... complete with everything needed for everything that is..." That included the space-time continuum. There was no "empty space" into which the universe expanded. It made and is making its own space. Pick up a basic book on quantum mechanics, one without the math; since it does get a "little deep".

[Defeat McBush]

McCain refuses to support the new GI bill that will help out those who serve or have served in Iraq!!!

It is very hard for a true conservative to know who to vote for now. Many many of us simply CANNOT vote for another Bush-style Republican, especially after all these scandals... and more scandals... and more scandals!!!

It is totally unclear where John McCain stands on abortion, even after (because?) he has been in politics for all these years.

Conservatives Have At Least 4 Choices:

Chuck Baldwin (Constitution Party)

Bob Barr (Libertarian)

McCain (Bush-Style Republican)

Ron Paul (Independent)

And, I agree with you Sandy, about this Republican congressman Vito Fossella who was recently arrested for drunk driving and yesterday admitted to having a child out of wedlock!

Fossella is ANOTHER member of the party that preaches to us about their "family values" and then they get caught having sex (and children) out of wedlock, driving drunk, having sex in bathrooms, groping underage congressional pages, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

Or, check out either of these PARTIAL listings of Republicans:

http://dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Sca...

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/october172...

[Your conscience]

911 was an inside job.The hard forensic evidence is overwhelming.

[Kansas boy]

It seems odd that a recent public poll I saw indicated that most regular people actually believe in the concept of "Evil" (94%) but when the subject of the concept of "Sin" came up, it was considered to be "Judgemental" and not acceptable.
I suppose one coud say that the term "Evil" is "just out there somewhere". However, whenever the subject of "Sin" comes up, it might just be pointing the finger to thee and me- much too close
to home,I suppose. Gads, I hate the concept of personal responsibility. it just gets to close to home. Thank god for my drugs and adult beverages.
It keeps me real.

[SongDance]

We don't worship God, because God is unworshipable!(However Evil is readily available for adulation!)
We have no clue as to what pleases HE. Not a single word from God in 5 thousand years and we are still waiting.! The last verifiable communication
was the episode of the relaying of the Commandments, of which only 10 are reputed to be still in effect. To ponder upon those Commandments
abandoned due to modernizing, a sort of dumbing-down of the Salvation process, is a boring rigmarole in its own right. After all those others,
what could HE have elaborated upon? "Thou shalt not break or bend the aforementioned Commandments."? Or thou shall not anything!
After all is said and done, it was HE who made women attractive to men. It was HE that set the stage for the violence that envelopes the world
today! I wonder if HE is still up there, no signs of life, how would an interested party check HIS pulse. P'raps the Pope could suggest something?
He claims to have his foot-in-the-door where Heaven is concerned. Personally, I think he, the Pope, is full of ----i t !!

[LWsciencejunkie]

SongDance wrote:

We don't worship God, because God is unworshipable!(However Evil is readily available for adulation!)
We have no clue as to what pleases HE. Not a single word from God in 5 thousand years and we are still waiting.! The last verifiable communication
was the episode of the relaying of the Commandments, of which only 10 are reputed to be still in effect. To ponder upon those Commandments
abandoned due to modernizing, a sort of dumbing-down of the Salvation process, is a boring rigmarole in its own right. After all those others,
what could HE have elaborated upon? "Thou shalt not break or bend the aforementioned Commandments."? Or thou shall not anything!
After all is said and done, it was HE who made women attractive to men. It was HE that set the stage for the violence that envelopes the world
today! I wonder if HE is still up there, no signs of life, how would an interested party check HIS pulse. P'raps the Pope could suggest something?
He claims to have his foot-in-the-door where Heaven is concerned. Personally, I think he, the Pope, is full of ----i t !!

It seems obvious to me that "pope" is spelled wrong...or, rather, the "p" was hanging on a push-pin, and it swung loose clockwise. It was originally a "d". You can tell by the conical hats he wears.

Have you noticed the resemblance to the evil emperor in Star Wars?

[Kansas boy]

Your conscience wrote:

911 was an inside job.The hard forensic evidence is overwhelming.

WHAT ???? Prove it if you can and don't go to
George Soros or the "Huffinton
Report" who perhaps like you don't
really care much for the USA.
At leastyour fine nation is paying
it's UN dues. Thank you.

[Kansas boy]

SongDance wrote:

We don't worship God, because God is unworshipable!(However Evil is readily available for adulation!)
We have no clue as to what pleases HE. Not a single word from God in 5 thousand years and we are still waiting.! The last verifiable communication
was the episode of the relaying of the Commandments, of which only 10 are reputed to be still in effect. To ponder upon those Commandments
abandoned due to modernizing, a sort of dumbing-down of the Salvation process, is a boring rigmarole in its own right. After all those others,
what could HE have elaborated upon? "Thou shalt not break or bend the aforementioned Commandments."? Or thou shall not anything!
After all is said and done, it was HE who made women attractive to men. It was HE that set the stage for the violence that envelopes the world
today! I wonder if HE is still up there, no signs of life, how would an interested party check HIS pulse. P'raps the Pope could suggest something?
He claims to have his foot-in-the-door where Heaven is concerned. Personally, I think he, the Pope, is full of ----i t !!

Don't know
much about the Pope. However,as far as I am concerned God is not some kind of Cosmic Puppeteer
For some strange reason he gave all of us "Free
Moral Agency" ( that's free will to all you folks
out in Rio Linda ). The problem with "choice" is
everytime we have to make one we seem to suffer a
loss. Now it's up to you to determine what exactly
your loss might be.

[A Still Small Voice]

hkjkjkjk wrote:

<quoted text>The core of true religion is described by the Judao-Christian *relationship*:????????
Talmud is Judao- Christian and True religion right?
So please explain these to me:
Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.
Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.
Non-Jews are Not Human Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Only Jews are human ("Only ye are designated men").
Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals ("she-asses").
Jews are Divine, Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.
O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews, Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.
Jews Have Superior Legal Status, Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
Jews May Steal from Non-Jews, Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned.(Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).
Sanhedrin 76a . God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."
Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews, Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 37b. Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
Jews May Lie to Non-Jews, Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.
Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human, Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b . Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Alexander Pope wrote, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Drink deeply, or not at all, from the Pierrian Spring(A symbol of wisdom)!" You've read the online version of the Talmud without studying in depth. Some of your quotes are bad translations, some are so totaly out of context as to be unintellegible, and some are accurate, and I'm absolutely unashamed of them. I could even defend them. One thing I will STRONGLY disagree with you is the notion that an Israelite may rob a Non-Israelite. The Torah states repeatedly "You shall not oppress the foreigner who dwells among you. There shall be One Law for the Stranger and for the native-born, for you were strangers in Egypt!"
Those weren't just empty words, either! Here's proof: Jews were considered trustworthy enough to be advisors to kings throughout the 2000 years they were in exile from their ancestral land, the most famous being Maimonides, Royal Physician to the Sultan of Egypt. I would be tempted to offer the hand of friendship to my Ishmaelite step-brother from Turkey, since I too beleive in One, Indivisible, Unimagable G-d, and I don't like the way the current bunch of Israeli leaders are so weak in their religious faith. The problem is, people like him brutaly murdered, raped & in general victimized my long-suffering Jewish brothers in Jerusalem wayyy before Israel regained its independance, and were bloody eager to join sides with the damned f***ing Nazis.
I also notice that he's obsessed with ancient Jewish sexual attitudes. I saw just yesterday a video of a modern, 21st century 12 year Arab girl who'd been forced to marry a man much, much older, who abused her & treated her like a slave. She seemed so frightened and pathetic. There is an old saying, "he who points one finger at another is pointing three at himself"!

[Inquiring Mind]

Kansas boy wrote:

<quoted text>
WHAT ???? Prove it if you can and don't go to
George Soros or the "Huffinton
Report" who perhaps like you don't
really care much for the USA.
At leastyour fine nation is paying
it's UN dues. Thank you.

There are MANY reports that substantiate the claim that 911 was an inside job.

My question to you would be, what makes you think it couldn't be?

[my left foot]

Kansas boy wrote:

It seems odd that a recent public poll I saw indicated that most regular people actually believe in the concept of "Evil" (94%) but when the subject of the concept of "Sin" came up, it was considered to be "Judgemental" and not acceptable.
I suppose one coud say that the term "Evil" is "just out there somewhere". However, whenever the subject of "Sin" comes up, it might just be pointing the finger to thee and me- much too close
to home,I suppose. Gads, I hate the concept of personal responsibility. it just gets to close to home. Thank god for my drugs and adult beverages.
It keeps me real.

hear/hear