Origin of Hindu Brahmins

Sengupta et al. suggest a Paleolithic/Neolithic, pre-Indo-European, origin of most Hindu Y chromosomes.

[Want to be Hindu]

May I cut and paste

Although considerable cultural impact on social hierarchy and language in South Asia is attributable to the arrival of nomadic Central Asian pastoralists, genetic data (mitochondrial and Y chromosomal) have yielded dramatically conflicting inferences on the genetic origins of tribes and castes of South Asia. We sought to resolve this conflict, using high-resolution data on 69 informative Y-chromosome binary markers and 10 microsatellite markers from a large set of geographically, socially, and linguistically representative ethnic groups of South Asia. We found that the influence of Central Asia on the pre-existing gene pool was minor. The ages of accumulated microsatellite variation in the majority of Indian haplogroups exceed 10,000–15,000 years, which attests to the antiquity of regional differentiation. Therefore, our data do not support models that invoke a pronounced recent genetic input from Central Asia to explain the observed genetic variation in South Asia. R1a1 and R2 haplogroups indicate demographic complexity that is inconsistent with a recent single history. Associated microsatellite analyses of the high-frequency R1a1 haplogroup chromosomes indicate independent recent histories of the Indus Valley and the peninsular Indian region. Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus and with significant genetic input resulting from demic diffusion associated with agriculture. Our results underscore the importance of marker ascertainment for distinguishing phylogenetic terminal branches from basal nodes when attributing ancestral composition and temporality to either indigenous or exogenous sources. Our reappraisal indicates that pre-Holocene and Holocene-era—not Indo-European—expansions have shaped the distinctive South Asian Y-chromosome landscape.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerende...

Is this the last of ARYAN INVASION THEORY

[radar xyz]

This is what dienkies infact says
"Sengupta et al.( suggest a Paleolithic/Neolithic, pre-Indo-European, origin of most Hindu Y chromosomes. This inference is, however, a house of cards resting on the assumption of a slow evolutionary mutation rate, which I have criticized elsewhere.
In my previous post, I suggested a Bronze Age origin for many Indian Y chromosome haplogroups. In this one, I use Ken Nordtvedt's Generations2 program to estimate ages for upper-caste Indians (Brahmins). As Brahmin status is elevated within the Hindu caste system, and is conferred patrilineally, Brahmins are excellent candidates for determining whether or not an exogenous Bronze Age population is responsible for the introduction of Indo-Aryan languages and the establishment of the caste system in India, in accordance with the much-challenged traditional opinion.
IDYS388 tends to mutate very slowly in most human lineages, but quite fast in haplogroup J, therefore I report results with or without its inclusion.
The three most populous haplogroups (R1a1, R2, J2a) are the best candidates for lineages of exogenous origin, and have Bronze Age coalescence time, in accordance with the traditional theory. However, indigenous lineages (H1 and L1) and others with fewer numbers did enter into the Brahmin gene pool. The majority (64%) does appear to trace its ancestry to the early Indo-Aryans.
Thus, the congruent distribution of haplogroups R1a1 and R2 in India, as well as the limited occurrence of haplogroup J2a mostly in upper castes are easily explained.
An argument against R1a1's Indo-Aryan affiliation is that it is more diverse in tribal Indians. Yet R1a1 occurs at very low frequencies in tribal Indians, who in turn form a very small part of Indian society. A better explanation is that R1a1 in tribals is due to multiple founder effects, and its elevated presence among Indo-European tribals supports this scenario.
The pattern of J2a and R1a1 occurrence and age suggests different roles for these two lineages. J2a seems older, consistent with a larger effective population size, whereas R1a1 is found at a higher frequency and is not limited to Brahmins.
Perhaps, J2a formed the nucleus of the priestly caste, allowing it to diversify for some period of time, with a later founding of a succesful Brahmin lineage by a group of R1a1 males of different caste origin. Such conjectures will have to remain speculative for the time being"
Well,be it west asian or indo european ,we are proud of our ancestory,our olive skin and light eyes.

[Old magi]

Anyways,I would be happy even if it is proven than my origin is asian or african .I would be happy anyways.

Peace peace peace.

[Old magi]

Not all brahmins are fair,there are dark brahmins too

[Want to be Hindu]

Old magi wrote:

Anyways,I would be happy even if it is proven than my origin is asian or african .I would be happy anyways.
Peace peace peace.

Good point

[Just off the boat]

Old magi wrote:

Anyways,I would be happy even if it is proven than my origin is asian or african .I would be happy anyways.
Peace peace peace.

Common genetic ancestry of all humans is proven to be african - this is not disputed by any scientists in the field as far as I know.

[Just off the boat]

Want to be Hindu wrote:

May I cut and paste
Although considerable cultural impact on social hierarchy and language in South Asia is attributable to the arrival of nomadic Central Asian pastoralists, genetic data (mitochondrial and Y chromosomal) have yielded dramatically conflicting inferences on the genetic origins of tribes and castes of South Asia. We sought to resolve this conflict, using high-resolution data on 69 informative Y-chromosome binary markers and 10 microsatellite markers from a large set of geographically, socially, and linguistically representative ethnic groups of South Asia. We found that the influence of Central Asia on the pre-existing gene pool was minor. The ages of accumulated microsatellite variation in the majority of Indian haplogroups exceed 10,000–15,000 years, which attests to the antiquity of regional differentiation. Therefore, our data do not support models that invoke a pronounced recent genetic input from Central Asia to explain the observed genetic variation in South Asia. R1a1 and R2 haplogroups indicate demographic complexity that is inconsistent with a recent single history. Associated microsatellite analyses of the high-frequency R1a1 haplogroup chromosomes indicate independent recent histories of the Indus Valley and the peninsular Indian region. Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus and with significant genetic input resulting from demic diffusion associated with agriculture. Our results underscore the importance of marker ascertainment for distinguishing phylogenetic terminal branches from basal nodes when attributing ancestral composition and temporality to either indigenous or exogenous sources. Our reappraisal indicates that pre-Holocene and Holocene-era—not Indo-European—expansions have shaped the distinctive South Asian Y-chromosome landscape.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerende...
Is this the last of ARYAN INVASION THEORY

Hi WTBH, thanks for this link - it does indeed put the onus on the AIT / AMT camp to show how a linguistic theory that is unsupported or even refuted by both archaeology and biology can possibly be true.

Whats even more interesting about this one is that it even places dravidian speakers in the south of india. This should also lay to rest the claim that the harappan civilisation was "dravidian".

[Lalitaditya muktapida]

Well Mr JOTB,

Have you never heard of caucasian mummies found in tarim basin(Sakadwipa in sanskrit)

[Want to be Hindu]

Lalitaditya muktapida wrote:

Well Mr JOTB,
Have you never heard of caucasian mummies found in tarim basin(Sakadwipa in sanskrit)

Whats the point?