Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You

May 7, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Religiously motivated strategies to oppose evolution in schools started out with efforts to ban the teaching of evolution. When that approach was struck down by the Supreme Court, Creationists took to arguing that 'Creation Science' was as scientifically legitimate as evolutionary biology, and therefore the two subjects should get equal space in the school curriculum.

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Concerned

Milwaukee, WI

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#22
May 8, 2008
 

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I guess some of the most brillant minds of all time (who believed in one all powerful creator) such as Leonardo Divinci and Benajamin Franklin were fools, eh? TRUE wisdom begins with the fear of God!!! Your comments are very concerning....You guys and gals are the scoffers the bible warns about in the last days. Evolution is considered a religion to me because its basic premises are based on assumptions which cannot be explained. Sounds a lot like faith in a man made religion to me....

Either get rid of both evolution and creationism in schools are teach them both. It is dangerous to promote one over the other. Let the children use their brains and think critically...I bet they will choose creation if they are allowed to think!!!
TerryL

Green Bay, WI

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#23
May 8, 2008
 

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Concerned wrote:
Evolution is considered a religion to me because its basic premises are based on assumptions which cannot be explained. Sounds a lot like faith in a man made religion to me....
Please expand on that for me. What "basic premises" are you referring to?
TerryL

Green Bay, WI

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#24
May 8, 2008
 

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an american wrote:
This way, everyone gets to be right.
No, actually that would just help lend an air of credibility to all the other crackpots out there who base their ideas on wishful thinking and want to call it science.... not just the fanatically religious dolts
BBQ Twist

Morristown, NJ

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#25
May 8, 2008
 

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Kirlak wrote:
US Constitution still guarantees separation of Church and State. I believe in God, but I also strongly believe that all regular teaching in Schools must be separate from Sunday School teachings. Bringing religion into a regular School is ABSOLUTELY AGAINST EVERY FREEDOM established by the founding fathers back over 200 years ago. Any politician, even hinting about breaking this separation, must be kicked out of politics immediately.
I agree with most of what you say, except, the Constitution does not guarantee the separation of Church and State. Rather, it says that there shall be no State established religion. All this means is that the government cannot declare a specific religion for the country. Nothing more. Over the years politicians turned it into "separation of church and state" for self-serving needs.
god made me do it

United States

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#26
May 8, 2008
 

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The article is interesting and sad. It's difficult to believe that legislators think that these are issues that warrant their time and effort. We should be outraged.

YOU'RE A STATE LEGISLATOR, GO WORK ON SOMETHING VALUABLE - THAT'S WHAT WE PAY YOU TO DO!!!
Louis

Dunnellon, FL

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#27
May 8, 2008
 

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Intelligent design does not advocate the necessity of religion, most, if notall religions are "man made" to create tyrants who use God as the excuse for their trepidational purposes. All it does is to verify certain facts, that there are "laws" that are beyond the power of human beings to contradict, and every one of these "laws" fits logically into other "laws". There is a regularity to the structure of an atom, there is regularity to the force of gravity, and that all of the universe has certain "laws" that could not have a damn thing to do with "evolution". Hence, the theory of "intelligent design"..a theory that goes beyond conjecture. The worst thing brought to the human species is "organized religion", a concept that creates anxiety and wars, all brought about by the ignorance of the masses and their futile beliefs that adhering to a particular religion will bring them to "paradise". God exists, or at least trhere is beyond any logical doubt that there is a purpose to the universe, and that purpose dictates a form of intelligence that has the power to create such an entity. Call it what you will, God, etc. but there it is, like it or not. I seriouysly doubt that any supreme being such as God would advocate the self destruction of mankind. If we are destroyed it'll be because we brought it on by following some goofy religious concept.
wbnc

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#28
May 8, 2008
 

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The THEORY of evolution is just that: a theory. Are people afraid that there really is a Creator and we didn't all just come from goo? I find it takes more faith to believe in the theory of evolution than in a divine intelligent creator who designed all life and created it for a purpose.

“It's all a myth”

Since: Apr 07

Orlando, FL

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#29
May 8, 2008
 

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Leria wrote:
When are people going to realize that religions (all of them) are lies....... probably never, until we start telling people that they cannot indoctrinate their children with the lies of religion.
Religion: History's most successful pyramid scheme, nothing more.
TerryL

Green Bay, WI

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May 8, 2008
 

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wbnc wrote:
The THEORY of evolution is just that: a theory. Are people afraid that there really is a Creator and we didn't all just come from goo? I find it takes more faith to believe in the theory of evolution than in a divine intelligent creator who designed all life and created it for a purpose.
Go figure, another nut job that can't understand that the term 'theory' has multiple definitions (as many english words do). Please educate yourself before you make youself look even more ignorant
Louis

Dunnellon, FL

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#31
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Actually there is no such prohibition in the Constitution that demands the separation of church and state. This is a legal concept, one that evolved from the "Establishment Clause" of the Constitution which, in its basic interpretation, disallows the government from establishing a state sponsored religion. The courts have, from time to time taken the whole issue out of context as it applies to government. Actually,historically "government" was not involved in the American school systems. Schools were run and managed by local school boards and the Federal government had no part in establishing rules and regulations. It wasn't until the local sachool boards decided to prostitute themselves for Federal dollars, thereby giving up their autonomy. We're paying for this as I write this repsponse. What do you think would happen if for some unknown reason all of the justices on the U.S. Supreme happened to be athiests or Catholics, or Islamists?
Dog

El Segundo, CA

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#32
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For those who don't know, the basis of the intelligent design argument is that there are biological features/characteristics whose development seemingly cannot be explained through small, incremental evolutionary steps.

It goes like this: Your house can 'evolve' by being added onto or being redecorated. But if it were to evolve into a hospital, it would take such drastic rework that it would cease to be livable during that time. For a biological creature, that evolutionary step is problematic, since it means that it should not happen naturally. This viewpoint and realm of study is perfectly valid as it addresses a system complexity/entropy issue. It is likely that studying these problematic spots will lead to a better understanding of the mechanics and driving forces behind biological adaptation & diversity.

The fact that the driving force is attributed to God is just an easy excuse to ignore the idea.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

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#33
May 8, 2008
 

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ed crandall wrote:
I can tell "inteligent design" has been wasted on most of the comments that I've read here. A thinking peson Knows that nothing just happens, all things are the result of a former action.(Intelligence)
So the formation of a rain cloud is directed by intelligence? No, the formation of the rain cloud is not a random event, but it is not directed by any intelligence. It follows a scientifically predictable pattern based on a great many factors.

Life works the same way. While some people like to think it's all a huge collection of random events, they seriously overstate the randomness because they don't understand the process. Life exists and changes over time not because of some driving intelligence, overwhelming purpose, or manifest destiny. Life exists, that's science. Life changes, that's also science. Purpose, destiny, or other ideas are not science but metaphysics and have no place in the science classroom.

Florida recently averted an effort to place into effect bills as discussed in this article. I think Louisiana is next on the block. Will they support science and join the rest of us in the 21st century, or will they reject it and reject the possibility of high-tech industries moving there because of a lack of educational support for long-term growth? Their choice, and I am confident they will make the right one and reject the bills for the lies they represent.

If they were really interested in academic freedom, why target Evolution? Why was Florida unable to produce any victims that needed this sort of protection? The laws and regulations in the Louisiana school system, and across the country in public schools, already exist. There is no reason to pass a special bill directed at one subject area, unless there is a thinly veiled ulterior motive -- as described in the article..

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

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BBQ Twist wrote:
I agree with most of what you say, except, the Constitution does not guarantee the separation of Church and State. Rather, it says that there shall be no State established religion. All this means is that the government cannot declare a specific religion for the country. Nothing more. Over the years politicians turned it into "separation of church and state" for self-serving needs.
Madison, one of the drafters of the Bill of Rights, used the words "total separation of the church from the state."

Jefferson wrote "...thus building a wall of separation between Church and State" in 1802.

It's what they had in mind from the beginning.

“Measure, Measure, Cut”

Since: Nov 07

El Paso ,TX

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#35
May 8, 2008
 

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KTM wrote:
Just more idiocy brought to America by the republican moron camo-crowd.
KTM: You have become quite an ezpert at dissembling cognitave function, and I have been advised not to argue with a fool because casual observers might not know which one is the fool.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

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wbnc wrote:
The THEORY of evolution is just that: a theory. Are people afraid that there really is a Creator and we didn't all just come from goo? I find it takes more faith to believe in the theory of evolution than in a divine intelligent creator who designed all life and created it for a purpose.
No one is afraid of anything other than teaching religion as science. Is that what you want? You can teach all the Intelligent Design you want, in a theology class, even a sociology class. But does it belong in a science class? No!

Trying to pass a bill in any state will not give Intelligent Design, or it's big brother Creationism, scientific legitimacy. Groups advocating this haven't been able to make the case in the lab, so they make their case in the arena of public opinion and the halls of our politicians. Even if these bills are passed, it would not make Creationism a science, it would just hurt the education of our young!

Do you want a Doctor who doesn't understand evolution and the impact it's had on medicine? How about the food you eat? Do you realize how much evolutionary science there is in the wheat, corn, and beef we eat today?

You also need to get educated on what a theory is in science. It is not an unsupported idea. It is the best explanation of a phenomena based on the evidence. Evolution is a theory, yes, like Gravity, Light, and the Atom. But that doesn't make it less viable. We manage to use these 'theories' pretty well.
Wright Wing

Mechanicsville, VA

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God D*mn America!!
Dog

El Segundo, CA

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"Separation of Church and State" didn't have the interpretation then as it does now.

"Church" = the organization, embodiment, and structure of religion (e.g. The Roman Catholic Church)
"State" = the organization, embodiment, and structure of law (e.g. the State v. a defendant in court)

These two entities do need to be kept separate, and that means there cannot be any govt mandated religion or blending of the two bodies. However--and this is very important--"Church" is not "religion," and "State" is not politics. There is no requirement that religion be kept out of govt, as evidenced by Ben Franklin's insisting that there be prayer in govt meetings.
Blogman

Redding, CA

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This is absurd. Here we are, alone in the Universe for all we know, marooned on this amazing blue planet that erupts with life at every square mile, and only we humans have a capacity to fully appreciate its beauty and awe.
This fact alone should open our eyes to spiritual possiblities. I don't know about you, but I have yet to see animals develope an art, a culture, or a language. There is something totally unique about humanity, something amazing and divine.
There is no such thing as pure science. Everything passes through our human mind. Can people really be that indoctrinated into thinking that we only evolved from apes? If you want to believe that and call it science, go for it. But your belief in not based upon science, it is simply a belief, nothing more nothing less. You can hypothesize that we evolved from ape, and I can hypothesize that God created us. I can accept you and love you if you believe in evolution. Can you accept me, if I believe in God. Why then shouldn't both theories be presented?
Thinker

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It takes a lot of faith to believe that all of this just happened. Especially since the mathematical probability of a big bang creating all of this is so small. Not only that, while you challenge for reproducible proof that ID is true, how about the same to prove the big bang and creation that just happened. You won't find any that is legitimate because science isn't science unless the hypothesis is made valid by experiment. ID doesn't claim to be scientifically provable. Evolution does but hasn't been.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

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Dog wrote:
For those who don't know, the basis of the intelligent design argument is that there are biological features/characteristics whose development seemingly cannot be explained through small, incremental evolutionary steps.
It goes like this: Your house can 'evolve' by being added onto or being redecorated. But if it were to evolve into a hospital, it would take such drastic rework that it would cease to be livable during that time. For a biological creature, that evolutionary step is problematic, since it means that it should not happen naturally. This viewpoint and realm of study is perfectly valid as it addresses a system complexity/entropy issue. It is likely that studying these problematic spots will lead to a better understanding of the mechanics and driving forces behind biological adaptation & diversity.
The fact that the driving force is attributed to God is just an easy excuse to ignore the idea.
What you are describing is an idea called Irreducible complexity, postulated by Michael Behe in his book Darwin's Black Box. Each and every example he has put forth as irreducibly complex has been debunked by evolutionary science -- ALL of them.

Behe was restating an argument by William Paley, the watchmaker argument, so while he was applying it to biochemical mechanisms like blood clotting factor and bacterial flagellum, it's not a new argument. Even Behe admitted that in order for his idea to be accepted as science, you would have to change the definition of science to include supernatural causes -- which would make Astrology, Alchemy, and Numerology also scientific disciplines.

Even Darwin agreed that if a mechanism could be found that could not have evolved through smaller, incremental steps, then his theory would be null and void. He thought the eye would be such a mechanism. However science doesn't stand still and the evolution of the eye, and bacterial flagellum, and blood clotting is much better understood today. So far NO ONE has identified an biological mechanism that is irreducibly complex.

Behe, in a letter called "A Response to my Critics" recognized that even if his idea were true, it would not be an argument against evolution (specifically natural selection). He also supports common ancestry. Behe sees complexity and assumes design, but so far hasn't done the scientific legwork to support his assumption.

What Behe is using is called "The God of the Gaps" argument. In which you take an area of sicnece where something isn't fully known and claim that the reason science doesn't know is because God did it. The problem with this argument is just because science doesn't know it today, they may know it tomorrow (Darwin's eye example). And once science knows it, you have to find a new 'gap' to make your argument. So far the "God of the Gaps" argument has been nothing more than a temporary argument.

"If man were meant to fly, God would have given him wings!" "God did not design man to move more than 30 miles per hour (the speed of a running horse)" These are also God of the Gap arguments. The Wright Brothers and others didn't pay much attention to them and filled more gaps. We fly today and just this morning I drove to work at over 50 MPH.

Most scientists aren't afraid of God, in fact many are believers in God. Some have stated that the more they learn, the stronger they believe! They are unraveling mysteries that you want to keep hidden because you think they threaten God and your belief system. Get educated and start here:
http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/religion_...
A letter signed by over 11,000 Christian Clergy here in the US that supports the Theory of Evolution and the teaching of that theory to your young!

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