Is It Time to End Ethanol Vehicle Fue...

Is It Time to End Ethanol Vehicle Fuel Mandates?

There are 26 comments on the Energy Tribune story from Apr 17, 2013, titled Is It Time to End Ethanol Vehicle Fuel Mandates?. In it, Energy Tribune reports that:

Last week, Bob Goodlatte and other lawmakers introduced legislation in the House of Representatives calling for major changes in the Renewable Fuel Standard .

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Energy Tribune.

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litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#1 Apr 17, 2013
Go to pure-gas.org for maps, addresses & commentary about using 100% gasoline(non-ethanol). Of our 3 vehicles, 2 of them set their all time high mpg records within 3 weeks of using 100% gasoline. I've kept records on the record setting cars for 22 years & 5.5 years, each. The cars are averaging about 7% more mpg than ethanol-blends. The 3rd car is averaging about 4+% better mpg, while my Ford Festiva hit 57+mpg using 100% gasoline.

Very marginal improvements in smoothness have been noted in 1 car. Another car seems to have a harder time starting in the cold morning with 100% gasoline as compared to 10% ethanol blend.

EPA runs their mpg on all vehicles marketed in the U.S., using ONLY 100% gasoline.

Altho, stations selling 100% pure(ethanol-free) gasoline have increased to 6577, it is difficult or impossible to fine 100% pure gas in major cities.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#2 Apr 19, 2013
It will never be time to do something stupid like removing the only reasonably cheap and non-toxic alternative to MTBE additive.

Exxon found out the cost of replacing ethanol when New Hampshire court fined it $236 million in damages for using the toxic mess in place of ethanol as an octane booster.

And the cost of refining oil goes up if you need a purer 'base stock' to end reliance on ethanol octane boost and oxygenator actions.

With the increase in 'heavy oil' already making it harder to meet the octane requirements, it make no sense (except for a few rich dilettantes like litesong that can pay extra for a bit more 'range') to remove the ethanol EVER.
litesong

Everett, WA

#4 Aug 5, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
With the increase in 'heavy oil' already making it harder to meet the octane requirements, it make no sense (except for a few rich dilettantes like litesong that can pay extra for a bit more 'range') to remove the ethanol EVER.
....... a rich dilettante.......never been described such......that's because the description isn't accurate & LHMF knows it. My current fuel cost per mile using 100% gasoline in my new LUXURY car(Elantra-$15500-it is a luxury car to me) is a bit over 10 cents. For my Ford Festiva, cost per mile, using 100% gasoline is 8.7 cents. Current cost for the average american in my area using 10% ethanol blends is ~16 cents per mile.

A bit more range...... for every 100,000 miles I drive using 100% gasoline, ethanol blend would only give 92,000 miles. My Elantra, using 87 octane, 100% gasoline, & bad-mouthed by leadfooters getting only sub-30mpg, who complained that Elantra wasn't able to get the EPA city or highway mpg-------currently I am averaging 39mpg with a high of 43mpg(possibly more mpg above that).
litesong

Everett, WA

#6 May 3, 2015
At both the state & Federal gov't levels, in the past, ethanol subsidies have been decreased or eliminated. Presently, there are legislations in hoppers to end ethanol blending practices. As compared to April 2013, which had 6577 E0 sources in the U.S. & Canada, there are now 9277 E0 sources, less than 8% away from 10,000, which could be met by 2016. With blending laws repealed, E0 sources should dramatically power up to 50,000 to 100,000+. Since high 114 octane ethanol doesn't burn efficiently in low 87 octane, low compression ratio (9:1 to 11:1) gasoline engines, end of blending laws would decrease oil being imported to the U.S., since the "ethanol in gasoline industry" burns more oil than it can ever save, which is little.
Doctor J

Miami, FL

#7 May 3, 2015
Yall should try hydrogen generator, works for me.
litesong

Everett, WA

#8 May 3, 2015
Doctor J wrote:
Yall should try hydrogen generator.......
How much fossil fuel or electricity generating fossil fuel do you burn to create hydrogen?

More to the point of this thread, how much oil is consumed by the entire "ethanol in gasoline industry" to produce ethanol blended into U.S. gasoline stocks, to transport it to blending sites, to transport the blend to gas stations & finally, & to support the "ethanol in gasoline industry" propaganda & overhead?

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#9 May 5, 2015
Intermediate Blends from Blender Pumps

Blender pumps are a way to offer FFV owners a variety of ethanol-blended gasoline products between E15 and E85. E20 (20% ethanol, 80% gasoline) and E30 (30% ethanol, 70% gasoline) are the most common blends offered. Stations offering these intermediate blends to FFV owners are concentrated in the Midwest. These intermediate blends are commonly offered because they represent an economical option for FFV drivers, based on the current price of ethanol and gasoline. Blender pumps are also a legal method to dispense E15 to conventional vehicles of model year 2001 and newer.

Blender pumps draw fuel from two separate storage tanks (E10 and E85) and can dispense preprogrammed blends of those two fuels. Labels must clearly indicate blender pump fuels for FFVs.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_blen...
litesong

Everett, WA

#10 May 26, 2015
A bio-green website reports on two issues to reduce & stop the blending of ethanol, both into national gasoline supplies & one state's gasoline supplies. First, iF the governor signs the bill, Hawaii will follow Florida to end ethanol blending into state gasoline supplies. Second, the Feinstein bill to end the ethanol mandate nationally continues to wind through the legislative process.

What is spectacular, is that neither article, which tells of the downfall of the "ethanol in gasoline industry", received any feedback from readers who, in the past, supported diluting our national gasoline supplies with ethanol.

litesong

Greenbank, WA

#11 Sep 6, 2015
pure-gas.org , only a grassroots website to list 100% ethanol-free gasoline sources in the U.S. & Canada, now has 9928 such listings. They should have 10,000 sources by October 2015. As for gov't supported E85, their sources may be no more than 2000.
Niece of Gorbachev

Silver Spring, MD

#12 Jan 21, 2016
Trump is an Ethanol Oligarch

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#13 Jan 22, 2016
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
It will never be time to do something stupid like removing the only reasonably cheap and non-toxic alternative to MTBE additive.
Exxon found out the cost of replacing ethanol when New Hampshire court fined it $236 million in damages for using the toxic mess in place of ethanol as an octane booster.
And the cost of refining oil goes up if you need a purer 'base stock' to end reliance on ethanol octane boost and oxygenator actions.
With the increase in 'heavy oil' already making it harder to meet the octane requirements, it make no sense (except for a few rich dilettantes like litesong that can pay extra for a bit more 'range') to remove the ethanol EVER.
I normally don't agree with Litesong about anything and consider him to be a bit of a loon. On this, he seems to have done his research far more than you. As for the non toxic, there is a reason when they refer to alcohol as poison. In addition, the carbon footprint for ethanol, the amount of fossil fuel it takes to get it to market pretty much offsets and environmental benefits. The farm equipment used to raise the corn, transport it for processing and transporting the ethanol to where it is mixed with gasoline is all done with diesel fueled equipment. In addition, it takes heat to ferment the corn to produce that ethanol and they are surely not using solar to produce that heat. Which means some sort of fossil fuel there as well. In addition, the fertilizer, herbicides, pesticides, and other chemicals are normally a byproduct of oil production at some point and also have to be moved and I sure you consider them to be toxic to the environment. And in addition, the MPG for pure gas is far higher than for the ethanol gas blend.

All ethanol is, is an attempt by people like you to feel a little less guilty about driving an internal combustion engine. It does not help the environment, it hurts because more land that could lay fallow, stay in a natural state, or even be allowed to revert to a natural state is instead being planted. The poor suffer because corn that could be used to feed them, nourish them is being poured into fuel tanks. Land that could be used for growing other crops like cotton to clothe the poor instead is growing corn to fuel your silly beliefs.

Talking about what New Hampshire does is not going to impress anyone. You would be better of claiming California had sued Exxon. At least people would of had to wonder if there was something more than a misguided belief of a bunch of loony tunes.

Also, I am sure Litesong would also agree that ethanol is harder on engines, which means that eventually, efficiency goes down, requiring not only more fuel, but more parts. Which means more metal, plastic, and energy to make those parts, move those parts, and even bring the parts and vehicles together. Not to mention some of the bad parts and other materials such as oil end up in the environment. Often toxic materials.
coyote

Rio Rancho, NM

#14 Jan 22, 2016
I have several vehicles (older motorcycles) that don't like ethanol one little bit. What these have in common with power equipment, outboard motors and other motors not used on a daily basis, is that ethanol in the tank pulls water vapor out of the air, adds it to the fuel, and corrodes and rusts gas tanks, carburetors etc. Ethanol blends add enough unreliability to engines that they are Illegal to use in aircraft. In some boats with built in gas tanks, molded as part of the fiberglass in the hull, the ethanol dissolves the fiberglass, and then adds the resulting glop to the fuel, to gum up the fuel system. My corn farmer brother in law initially avoided getting involved in ethanol, because he knew it was a scam, producing no net petroleum savings, and he figured that, once people realized this, the scam would collapse. He figured on rationality, not politics and corruption. After a couple years, he realized that the scam was here to stay, so he bought into his local still. Water is scarce throughout the West, and the Ogallala Aquifer is rapidly going dry, and will be permanently destroyed if current trends continue. Using that water to grow corn, to pump ethanol into the tanks of unwilling motorists, is something that could only be happening in a country where Archer Daniels Midland et al. own the Congress and apparently also the media.
spud

Narvon, PA

#15 Jan 22, 2016
Ethanol was never a good idea. It was a payoff. It sure as hell didn't do squat for the consumer
Cordwainer Trout

Elk Horn, KY

#16 Jan 22, 2016
Ethanol has been promoted and mandated by Marxist Democrats to buy farmer votes. The resultant higher prices for corn have caused starvation in many areas of the world. Ethanol mandates have also encouraged genetically modified corn to be more widely planted, thus reducing the world's supply of non-GMO corn and allowing GMO corn to be sneaked into food supplies without people knowing it. The earlier affects on car engines was destructive and continues to be questioned. There remain very few positive aspects to the mandates for Ethanol additives to gasoline, especially since farmer votes are effectively compromised.
Baconator

Washington, DC

#17 Jan 22, 2016
Gov of Iowa tells voters to throw Cruez under the Ethanol bus
coyote

Rio Rancho, NM

#18 Jan 23, 2016
Baconator wrote:
Gov of Iowa tells voters to throw Cruez under the Ethanol bus
Cruz ALMOST had my vote, when he took a stand against the ethanol mandate. Then, in the last couple weeks, he flip flopped, intimidated by the corn lobby. So much for courageous leadership!
spud

Narvon, PA

#19 Jan 23, 2016
All corporate mandates are idiotic and corrupt. You don't think these things just happen without money exchanging hands. Viva Trump, America's newest hero
No Backbone

Silver Spring, MD

#20 Jan 23, 2016
coyote wrote:
<quoted text>
Cruz ALMOST had my vote, when he took a stand against the ethanol mandate. Then, in the last couple weeks, he flip flopped, intimidated by the corn lobby. So much for courageous leadership!
Cruz cowered in fear to Ethanol Iowa
coyote

Rio Rancho, NM

#21 Jan 26, 2016
No Backbone wrote:
<quoted text>
Cruz cowered in fear to Ethanol Iowa
No doubt about that. But did you notice that, right AFTER he flip flopped, his numbers in Iowa went Down? Maybe even Iowans would rather have a real man, willing to tell them what they don't want to hear, than a spineless kiss up.
Copenhagen kid

Baltimore, MD

#22 Feb 1, 2016
coyote wrote:
<quoted text>
No doubt about that. But did you notice that, right AFTER he flip flopped, his numbers in Iowa went Down? Maybe even Iowans would rather have a real man, willing to tell them what they don't want to hear, than a spineless kiss up.
Mandates are essential to National Romneycare

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