Skull Valley lawmaker wants both side...

Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students

There are 1632 comments on the Verde Independent story from Feb 5, 2013, titled Skull Valley lawmaker wants both sides of climate change taught to students. In it, Verde Independent reports that:

Saying students are getting only one side of the debate, a state senator wants to free teachers to tell students why they believe there is no such thing human-caused "global warming.' The proposal by Sen.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Verde Independent.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#1109 May 8, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Check out the lack of ANY experimental test of climate change mitigation. That's how you can tell, it's a hoax.
Wrong, that’s how you can make facetious claims that it’s a hoax. Check out Thomas Midgely Jnr for the results of atmospheric pollution

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#1110 May 8, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Every medicine and medical treatment approved by the FDA has been experimentally tested. Why want a lower status for the health of your entire planet?
Medicines are tested in a lab under strictly controlled conditions, as have many climate experiments. There is no way that atmospheric testing can be controlled in the same way as laboratory test.

Do you think that comparing apples with oranges gives you the right to decry and even deny laboratory climate tests?

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#1111 May 8, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Ekins, S., J. Mestres & B. Testa. 2007. In silico pharmacology for drug discovery: methods for virtual ligand screening and profiling. British J. Pharmacol. 152(1): 9-20.
Costanzi, Stefano. 2008. On the Applicability of GPCR Homology Models to Computer-Aided Drug Discovery: A Comparison between In Silico and Crystal Structures of the &#946;2-Adrenergic Receptor. J. Med. Chem. 51(10): 2907–2914.
van de Waterbeemd, H. 2002. High-throughput and in silico techniques in drug metabolism and pharmacokinetics. Curr. Opinion Drug Discov. & Develop. 005(1): 33-43.
Shall I go on, or is this enough egg?
Computer models can't test drug safety and effect. Not only that: "Although these methods are not proven yet to ‘discover drugs' alone,..."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1...

Global warming fear mongers rely on ignorance. Computer models don't replace real world experiments.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#1112 May 8, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
...Computer models are experiments. I don't know anymore elementary way to explain it than that. I can only assume that you have some notion of what a computer can do since you are posting here.
Computer models aren't experiments, they only output what their programmed to output.

.
DanFromSmithville wrote:
So you are a complete denier of the evidence that global temperature has increased over the last 200 years. While I can understand argument over the cause of this warming (natural as opposed to anthropogenic), to deny the evidence that shows the warmer shows a severe level of ignorance of the subject and a questionable honesty.
I never denied the climate has warmed during the last 200 years. You can create a trend with any slope you like, if you pick the correct start and end points.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#1113 May 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
Medicines are tested in a lab under strictly controlled conditions, as have many climate experiments. There is no way that atmospheric testing can be controlled in the same way as laboratory test. Do you think that comparing apples with oranges gives you the right to decry and even deny laboratory climate tests?
If you contract a rare disease, that doesn't mean science throws up its hands and gives up. There are many examples of single subject experimental designs, here's one for pharmacology:

Review article: Single subject trials as a research instrument in gastrointestinal pharmacology.
Madsen LG, Bytzer P.
Source
Department of Medical Gastroenterology M, Glostrup University Hospital, DK-2600 Glostrup, Denmark.
Abstract
The single subject trial is a randomized controlled trial carried out in the individual patient, and the result obtained is specific to the individual patient and the drug being investigated. This type of trial offers a supplement to traditional parallel group trials, especially in patients with heterogeneous disorders, often characterized by varying treatment responses and/or high placebo response rates. Pooled results from several individual single subject trials could extend the conclusions beyond the individual patient, and help to characterize a subset of responders to a specific treatment or clarify the heterogeneity of the disease. The basic principles of the different single subject trial designs are described. Advantages and limitations are reviewed with a special focus on published trials in functional gastrointestinal disorders. The single subject trial may be a valuable supplement to traditional drug treatment trials, either used as isolated trials in individual patients to determine optimal therapy, or in groups of patients to identify those with a uniform response to treatment. However, the lack of validation and reliability studies limits the value of the single subject trials presented so far.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11860401
litesong

Everett, WA

#1114 May 8, 2013
[QUOTE who="lyin' brian"]Newton.... He found the effect of gravity depends on mass and distance from the center of mass. That's why astronauts far from the Earth are weightless.[/QUOTE]

The Newtonian equations of gravity & the distances astronauts are from the the center of the Earth(or the Moon), are not why the astronauts are weightless.If 'lyin' brian' had had science, chemistry, astronomy, physics, algebra & pre-calc for its poorly earned hi skule DEE-plooomaa, it would have known the falsity of its statement.

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#1115 May 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So you base your cause on illegal activity, fair enough, we know where we stand with you now.
"we"? Who are you?
Dont drink the koolaid

Eden Prairie, MN

#1116 May 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Case in point, you raised it so you can have no argument to me continuing the conversation. That is your, and the deniers take on the emails at take formed by ignoring the data and investigations post “climate-gate”. Do you not think it’s strange that the hackers wish to remain anonymous? What have they to hide? Is it because the prevailing view of major governments that such cyber hacking is illegal and punishable by long prison sentences? Or is it because they are too sh|t scared of the public outcry to their illegal smear campaign?
I shun your few criminals and raise you thousands of scientist and several governments.
Eight officially convened independent committees including a House of Commons enquiry plus several unofficial enquiries investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct. The scientific consensus that global warming is occurring as a result of human activity remained unchanged by the end of the investigations. Why did the media choose to play the debunking of criminal activity down? It was of course less sensationalist than the original claims.
However you are welcome to big up a theft if that’s all you have.
As to the word of one organisation with an axe to grind, personally I think I’d prefer to take more notice of the prevailing consensus, particularly after repeated attempts (legal or otherwise) to discredit the findings have failed and no doubt several more will also fail. However if you can cite some irrefutable evidence (without criminal intervention) that shows data has been falsified to the extent that the claims of human activity being responsible for the current increased round of climate change is invalid then I will consider it, otherwise they have nada…
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Medicines are tested in a lab under strictly controlled conditions, as have many climate experiments. There is no way that atmospheric testing can be controlled in the same way as laboratory test.
Do you think that comparing apples with oranges gives you the right to decry and even deny laboratory climate tests?
Dear ChristineM,
Nice change of pace from ad honinem and cut n' paste 'science fact' approach to The Catistrophic Anthropogenic Climate Change Crisis.
Every science academy agrees that computer models are scientific experiments that are used for the purpose of DISproving (thus far without success) the hypotheses of CACC..
Further -world wide scientific agreement has beeen reached stating Climate Change is governed by many variables that can be controlled by Man through atmospheric CO2 Control. This consensus also embraces the position that Climate Mitigation must begin soon so to avoid The Tipping Point of Runaway Global Warming.
For further understanding of this World Wide Scientific Consensus one can buy the latest books by Dr. James Hansen, Former Director of NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies or Professor Michael Mann, Senior Contributor to The IPCC AR4 Report.
One may also google ' 350.org ' for in depth explanation as to the efficacy of CO2 Minipulation in Warming or Cooling the planet while at the same time manipulating Precipitation, Glacial Mass, Hurricanes, Tornadoes, and many other natural phenomena.
The first step to Saving the Earth is to select a group of skilled experts to oversee the control of 'The CO2 Dial'. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is the logical choice here. This will give them the power to control Earth's Climate. With the science settled... What could possibly go wrong?
-koolaid
Dont drink the koolaid

Eden Prairie, MN

#1117 May 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>.
Case in point, you raised it so you can have no argument to me continuing the conversation. That is your, and the deniers take on the emails at take formed by ignoring the data and investigations post “climate-gate”. Do you not think it’s strange that the hackers wish to remain anonymous? What have they to hide? Is it because the prevailing view of major governments that such cyber hacking is illegal and punishable by long prison sentences? Or is it because they are too sh|t scared of the public outcry to their illegal smear campaign?
I shun your few criminals and raise you thousands of scientist and several governments.
Eight officially convened independent committees including a House of Commons enquiry plus several unofficial enquiries investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct. The scientific consensus that global warming is occurring as a result of human activity remained unchanged by the end of the investigations. Why did the media choose to play the debunking of criminal activity down? It was of course less sensationalist than the original claims.
However you are welcome to big up a theft if that’s all you have.
As to the word of one organisation with an axe to grind, personally I think I’d prefer to take more notice of the prevailing consensus, particularly after repeated attempts (legal or otherwise) to discredit the findings have failed and no doubt several more will also fail. However if you can cite some irrefutable evidence (without criminal intervention) that shows data has been falsified to the extent that the claims of human activity being responsible for the current increased round of climate change is invalid then I will consider it, otherwise they have nada…
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Medicines are tested in a lab under strictly controlled conditions, as have many climate experiments. There is no way that atmospheric testing can be controlled in the same way as laboratory test.
Do you think that comparing apples with oranges gives you the right to decry and even deny laboratory climate tests?
Dear ChristineM,
Nice change of pace from ad honinem and cut n' paste 'science fact' approach to The Catistrophic Anthropogenic Climate Change Crisis.

Every science academy agrees that computer models are scientific experiments that are used for the purpose of DISproving (thus far without success) the hypotheses of CACC..

Further -world wide scientific agreement has beeen reached stating Climate Change is governed by many variables that can be controlled by Man through atmospheric CO2 Control. This consensus also embraces the position that Climate Mitigation must begin soon so to avoid The Tipping Point of Runaway Global Warming.

For further understanding of this World Wide Scientific Consensus one can buy the latest books by Dr. James Hansen, Former Director of NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies or Professor Michael Mann, Senior Contributor to The IPCC AR4 Report.

One may also google ' 350.org ' for in depth explanation as to the efficacy of CO2 Minipulation in Warming or Cooling the planet while at the same time manipulating Precipitation, Glacial Mass, Hurricanes, Tornadoes, and many other natural phenomena.

The first step to Saving the Earth is to select a group of skilled experts to oversee the control of 'The CO2 Dial'. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is the logical choice here. This will give them the power to control Earth's Climate. With the science settled... What could possibly go wrong?

-koolaid

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#1118 May 8, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>If you contract a rare disease, that doesn't mean science throws up its hands and gives up. There are many examples of single subject experimental designs, here's one for pharmacology:
Review article: Single subject trials as a research instrument in gastrointestinal pharmacology.
Madsen LG, Bytzer P.
Source
Department of Medical Gastroenterology M, Glostrup University Hospital, DK-2600 Glostrup, Denmark.
Abstract
The single subject trial is a randomized controlled trial carried out in the individual patient, and the result obtained is specific to the individual patient and the drug being investigated. This type of trial offers a supplement to traditional parallel group trials, especially in patients with heterogeneous disorders, often characterized by varying treatment responses and/or high placebo response rates. Pooled results from several individual single subject trials could extend the conclusions beyond the individual patient, and help to characterize a subset of responders to a specific treatment or clarify the heterogeneity of the disease. The basic principles of the different single subject trial designs are described. Advantages and limitations are reviewed with a special focus on published trials in functional gastrointestinal disorders. The single subject trial may be a valuable supplement to traditional drug treatment trials, either used as isolated trials in individual patients to determine optimal therapy, or in groups of patients to identify those with a uniform response to treatment. However, the lack of validation and reliability studies limits the value of the single subject trials presented so far.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11860401
Apples and oranges

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#1119 May 8, 2013
RiccardoFire wrote:
<quoted text>"we"? Who are you?
I am we, and you?

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#1120 May 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Apples and oranges
Come out of your bunker, the air is still safe to breathe. LOL

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#1121 May 8, 2013
We “deniers” have now become “debunkers!” We have known all along—and have not hesitated to tell the world—that global warning was, and remains, the worst hoax ever played on mankind.

We “deniers” have now become “debunkers!” We have known all along—and have not hesitated to tell the world—that global warning was, and remains, the worst hoax ever played on mankind.

Often focused on century-long trends, most climate models failed to predict that the temperature rise would slow, starting around 2000. Scientists are now intent on figuring out the causes and determining whether the respite will be brief or a more lasting phenomenon.

Getting this right is essential for the short and long-term planning of governments and businesses ranging from energy to construction, from agriculture to insurance. Many scientists say they expect a revival of warming in coming years.

Theories for the pause include that deep oceans have taken up more heat with the result that the surface is cooler than expected, that industrial pollution in Asia or clouds are blocking the sun, or that greenhouse gases trap less heat than previously believed.

The change may be a result of an observed decline in heat-trapping water vapor in the high atmosphere, for unknown reasons. It could be a combination of factors or some as yet unknown natural variations, scientists say.”

See what I mean? They’re tying themselves into knots as they attempt to cover their derrières! It is priceless!

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#1122 May 8, 2013
So what was Global Warming all about, anyway? Well, former Czech President Václav Klaus said this:“This ideology preaches earth and nature and under the slogans of their protection – similarly to the old Marxists – wants to replace the free and spontaneous evolution of mankind by a sort of central, now global, planning of the whole world”

Global governance. A one world government. To be more precise: A one-world SOCIALIST government.

Let’s face it: The socialist movement is relentless. If you ever wondered where all those communist and socialist went when the old Soviet Union collapsed—look no farther than the environmental movement—the Global Warming crowd.

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#1123 May 8, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I am we, and you?
Were you referring to yourself as an alarmist? When did you convert to the religion?

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#1124 May 8, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Dear ChristineM,
Nice change of pace from ad honinem and cut n' paste 'science fact' approach to The Catistrophic Anthropogenic Climate Change Crisis.
Every science academy agrees that computer models are scientific experiments that are used for the purpose of DISproving (thus far without success) the hypotheses of CACC..
Further -world wide scientific agreement has beeen reached stating Climate Change is governed by many variables that can be controlled by Man through atmospheric CO2 Control. This consensus also embraces the position that Climate Mitigation must begin soon so to avoid The Tipping Point of Runaway Global Warming.
For further understanding of this World Wide Scientific Consensus one can buy the latest books by Dr. James Hansen, Former Director of NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies or Professor Michael Mann, Senior Contributor to The IPCC AR4 Report.
One may also google ' 350.org ' for in depth explanation as to the efficacy of CO2 Minipulation in Warming or Cooling the planet while at the same time manipulating Precipitation, Glacial Mass, Hurricanes, Tornadoes, and many other natural phenomena.
The first step to Saving the Earth is to select a group of skilled experts to oversee the control of 'The CO2 Dial'. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is the logical choice here. This will give them the power to control Earth's Climate. With the science settled... What could possibly go wrong?
-koolaid
Scientific institutions use scientific models. They are a tool of science and used to demonstrate a point, not to bolster your sad ideas.

C&P, stop projecting and your insults are childish. Please advise when if ever you have seen me cut and paste without adding a reference to said passage? Methinks you are guilty of double standards here…

Further world wide scientific consensus has been reached and confirmed by several independent enquiries that global warming is occurring as a result of human activity and despite the criminal behaviour of some deniers that has remained unchanged by the failed attempts of those criminals

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#1125 May 8, 2013
RiccardoFire wrote:
<quoted text>Come out of your bunker, the air is still safe to breathe. LOL
Yes, and?

Honey I see you live in the US, tell me have you observed the increasing ferocity of the climate over the last few years? I know many Americans who have, perhaps you live in a sheltered spot or perhaps you have a vested interest in climate pollution.

I live in the UK, a country that suffered major flood events for nine months of last year. People died as a result of global climate change. It is proven (although there are some that deny this) that climate change is aggravated my human interference.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#1126 May 8, 2013
RiccardoFire wrote:
We “deniers” have now become “debunkers!” We have known all along—and have not hesitated to tell the world—that global warning was, and remains, the worst hoax ever played on mankind.
We “deniers” have now become “debunkers!” We have known all along—and have not hesitated to tell the world—that global warning was, and remains, the worst hoax ever played on mankind.
Often focused on century-long trends, most climate models failed to predict that the temperature rise would slow, starting around 2000. Scientists are now intent on figuring out the causes and determining whether the respite will be brief or a more lasting phenomenon.
Getting this right is essential for the short and long-term planning of governments and businesses ranging from energy to construction, from agriculture to insurance. Many scientists say they expect a revival of warming in coming years.
Theories for the pause include that deep oceans have taken up more heat with the result that the surface is cooler than expected, that industrial pollution in Asia or clouds are blocking the sun, or that greenhouse gases trap less heat than previously believed.
The change may be a result of an observed decline in heat-trapping water vapor in the high atmosphere, for unknown reasons. It could be a combination of factors or some as yet unknown natural variations, scientists say.”
See what I mean? They’re tying themselves into knots as they attempt to cover their derrières! It is priceless!
You debunk nothing, you make unfounded claims based on pie in the sky and wishful thinking and you have to back it up by citing criminal activity

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#1127 May 8, 2013
RiccardoFire wrote:
So what was Global Warming all about, anyway? Well, former Czech President Václav Klaus said this:“This ideology preaches earth and nature and under the slogans of their protection – similarly to the old Marxists – wants to replace the free and spontaneous evolution of mankind by a sort of central, now global, planning of the whole world”
Global governance. A one world government. To be more precise: A one-world SOCIALIST government.
Let’s face it: The socialist movement is relentless. If you ever wondered where all those communist and socialist went when the old Soviet Union collapsed—look no farther than the environmental movement—the Global Warming crowd.
All the more reason for supporters of free markets to jump in and offer constructive market driven solutions instead of leaving the whole field wide open to tyrannical central planning fruitcakes.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#1128 May 8, 2013
RiccardoFire wrote:
<quoted text>Were you referring to yourself as an alarmist? When did you convert to the religion?
Feel free to make up whatever facetious BS you want, it does however mean that you can only exist on made up facetious BS.

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